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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    I imagined the subscriber decline over the past decade Huh k. Yea yea its old and the people who make it have nothing new to add evidently. They are 100% out of touch and its in the numbers.
    Well I can't fault the flawless logic of saying "yea yea" before spouting a baseless opinion.
    /s

  2. #102
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Well I can't fault the flawless logic of saying "yea yea" before spouting a baseless opinion.
    /s
    The baseless opinion is that the game is "maintaining a healthy player base for a 16 year old game" as if the age fucking mattered
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  3. #103
    flying was best in Pandaland - quest on the ground till max level 85 and then just buy it and be free, no timegating and other bullcrap

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by uncl55 View Post
    flying was best in Pandaland - quest on the ground till max level 85 and then just buy it and be free, no timegating and other bullcrap
    This. To bad Blizzard wants to dictate what players want now.
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  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Alraml View Post
    Personally i've never been a fan of flying.

    The issue I have with it is that they don't really design zones based around it

    Storm Peaks and Icecrown had some interesting interaction with it but the past few expansions the zones feel smaller and flying just feels a bit redundant
    The base game is dead to me and have been since wrath.

    Flying makes the non gameplay gametime more convenient and faster to do.

    Flying should be in from the start of each new expansion maybe with a gold sink if they felt it appropriate aswell as a max level requirement so people can "lvie through the exciting new zones while following the amazing story".

    The only thing i do in the zones is farm herbs/ore/whatever. I dont see a proper reason for there not to be flying in a game completely centered around endgame pvp/pve

  6. #106
    Im ok flying from the get go. But since that is not coming back, Im good with having flying unlocked the very same instant you finish the story achievements of each zone. Keeping us grounded longer is just another for Blizz's to slow us down and artificially stretch content and sub times.

  7. #107
    at this point, why shouldnt they have flying open for every xpac? Makes no sense not having it. Give the people what they want.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunderella View Post
    Im ok flying from the get go. But since that is not coming back, Im good with having flying unlocked the very same instant you finish the story achievements of each zone. Keeping us grounded longer is just another for Blizz's to slow us down and artificially stretch content and sub times.
    This doesn't really stand up as an argument when you consider MoP had flight but also lots of complaints about the content being stretched with the rep grind through dailies. Then WoD was released without flying and people quickly ran out of things to do (or at least incentives to do them) and complained that the content wasn't stretched far enough.

    BTW what do you mean by "artificial," do you think there's a "natural" way for MMO content to be stretched?

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunderella View Post
    Im ok flying from the get go. But since that is not coming back, Im good with having flying unlocked the very same instant you finish the story achievements of each zone. Keeping us grounded longer is just another for Blizz's to slow us down and artificially stretch content and sub times.
    Yep, 100%. Theres no reason to not give us flying after we have completed all zones storylines and the main questline. Since WM is on/off, the issue of "ganking from above" is long gone and a invalid argument.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Snufflupagus View Post
    Then you are playing the wrong kind of game.

    Sadly, your kind are loud enough that over the last fifteen years the game has genre-shifted so that it’s doing it’s best not to be the kind of game it is. The world in the name doesn’t make any sense any more.

    Obviously it’s a moot point at this stage. People like you have won; World of Warcraft has been summarily and wholly ruined. But I’m not gonna pretend like flying is a good idea when the only argument people have for flying is “it lets me play World of Warcraft without playing World of Warcraft”.

    As someone observed earlier, flying is effectively a dev tool that lets you skip bits you don’t like. You suggest that people who don’t like flying just don’t. To extend that logic:

    * I don’t like raiding, but want to wreck noobs in PVP. We should have a boss instakill button so I can get mythic loot, but you can just not use it.
    * I don’t like farming, but want to have maxed crafting professions. We should have a mats vendor so I can buy all my mats as I need them, but you can just not use it.
    * I don’t like losing arena matches, but I want high rating. We should have a rating vendor. You can just not use it.

    This does not make sense. The game is a whole system recursively built on itself. Flying whips out one of the central jenga blocks that everything is built upon: the world itself. Without that, everything teeters.

    - - - Updated - - -



    (Sorry I don’t know how to have more than one quote in a post. I’m not often a poster).

    The suggestion that WoW’s open world doesn’t matter is two things:

    A) True. It doesn’t.
    B) Comical. What an absurd proposition.

    World of Warcraft is the open world. That was the pitch. That was the value proposition. Run around the open world of Warcraft. Build a character, explore this vast world, grow strong and blahblahblah. The open world is the game.

    And then flying came.

    Saying we should just get flying right off the bat because the open world doesn’t matter is like telling someone they should just smoke a pack a day, they’ve already got cancer—except every two yearsish they get a new expansion and a magical reprieve from cancer and you’re breathing down their neck to keep smoking. The open world doesn’t matter because it’s trivialised by flying. If players are just gonna fly over it, why would the devs make the world matter?

    The upshot is that we get a crappy, claustrophobic, meaningless world and a game that is essentially just menus queueing up for a set of scenarios. Modern WoW would literally be a better game if you just logged into a menu screen, chose an instance and got tossed into the relevant loading screen. The world is an utter irrelevance... but that’s because of flying, not the other way around.

    (Hence, incidentally, people crying about wanting a single faction and so on as well—WoW would be a better game of its current genre if there was just one faction, too, but it’d be a shit game).

    But WoW can’t just get rid of the open world. That’s it’s core. It’s never gonna go away. So you and yours are stuck with a game that invests swathes of dev time in an open world you’d be better off without (and then invalidates that world with flying anyway), and I’m stuck with a game that caters to the twits who want to play fantasy-themed Counterstrike who suck dev time out of the world that makes it worthwhile because they’re just gonna fly right over it. Neither of us is happy.

    Classic+ was the impossible dream that could’ve fixed it, but your side of the fence colonised mine and now they’ve fumbled that too.
    I mean we never won... it was what the game always was. There hasn't ever been compelling world content in wow even if you go back to the start. The closest we ever got is the two weapon quests in classic....

    People would struggle to name a specific quest per zone they did even in classic. What they don't have problems recalling are the dungeons...

    The genre never shifted I just think your recalling a memory of a memory not the memory itself.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Wingspan View Post
    I’d probably re-sub to the game for 6 months or so if they took all flight requirements out of the old expansions.

    If they actually added flight to the permanent no-fly zones of the past at the same time, I would probably stay subbed permanently (but one expansion behind). I realize that would never happen though, because Bliz would not want to pay for it and they seem to despise flight... but I’m throwing it out there.

    At the very least, I hope they remove the restriction on BfA when the next expansion comes out... if so, I might come back for a short stretch and do that expansion.

    Anyway, how do you feel about it?
    It's a weird one from me. I'm trying to think about which times I didn't have pathfinder and I think it was a couple of times. I didn't have pathfinder because I stopped playing during them times because I wasn't enjoying that latest content so I stopped playing. Removing the restrictions will be great sure. But that just means for me, flying restrictions removed on content I didn't like and don't want to do would be pointless since I still don't like and don't plan on doing it.

    On the other hand if I did have pathfinder unlocked when it was meta meant there was some aspect of enjoyment during that time. Which might've been once. Blizzard really hasn't done a good job keeping me subbed beyond the 1 month launch window.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    BTW what do you mean by "artificial," do you think there's a "natural" way for MMO content to be stretched?
    Indeed. If you want content to last longer you create more content. But since this is not feasible since there will be those that will nolife it in an evening and then complain how there is nothing left to do and so Blizz resorts to limit how much you can advance each day.

    I might be a special snowflake but I would love to end the campaign in a couple of days and then move on to farming my stuff for raids or do some pvp or level an alt. I can understand those who only play the story mode and then have nothing else to do. But this game in the end is all about raiding, pvp or m+. THose who do any of those activites will rarely complain about nothing to do until they farm the mythic mode.

  13. #113
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    No reason to restrict flying in old content IMO.

    Just unlock it.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Simple Rick View Post
    I mean we never won... it was what the game always was. There hasn't ever been compelling world content in wow even if you go back to the start. The closest we ever got is the two weapon quests in classic....

    People would struggle to name a specific quest per zone they did even in classic. What they don't have problems recalling are the dungeons...

    The genre never shifted I just think your recalling a memory of a memory not the memory itself.
    Hardly a fair comparison as there are hundreds of quests per expansion and barely a dozen or so dungeons. There are memorable quest chains I can recall for most zones looking back, or at least broad story arcs, and I can recall every zone in the game and the feelings and aesthetics of them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunderella View Post
    Indeed. If you want content to last longer you create more content. But since this is not feasible since there will be those that will nolife it in an evening and then complain how there is nothing left to do and so Blizz resorts to limit how much you can advance each day.

    I might be a special snowflake but I would love to end the campaign in a couple of days and then move on to farming my stuff for raids or do some pvp or level an alt. I can understand those who only play the story mode and then have nothing else to do. But this game in the end is all about raiding, pvp or m+. THose who do any of those activites will rarely complain about nothing to do until they farm the mythic mode.
    So the way you're using "artificial" here applies to pretty much every single aspect of WoW's endgame with the exception of non-repeatable quest chains/story campaigns?

  15. #115
    Old God Grimbold21's Avatar
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    No flying would be more tolerable if the zones weren't designed to make ground travel a hassle.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Flight should be unlocked by now for Eversong/Silvermoon, Azuremyst Isles/Exodar, Timeless Isles and Argus.
    Those zones use the old tricks from Vanilla. That big spire in Silvermoon where the portal takes you? It's a 3D painting.

  17. #117
    Just make it a 2-5K gold bill I have to pay once max level or close to max level and let me fly everywhere in the game. That is all I am asking to revert to the old Model that was perfect in Wrath-MOP. If they did this I may actually resub to the game as it will not be so damn tedious to travel.

  18. #118
    The question is pointless. Even if it's about old expansions, you will still get the anti flying hate as if you were asking about flying in general.
    I personally like flying and have so far not seen any actual argument against it. Ppl keep spouting nonsense about danger and immersion and world pvp as if those were real in an MMO where you repeat content over and over. This is why this whole subject is getting tiresome, because what discussion can you have with ppl incapabile of argumenting their position.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Simple Rick View Post
    I mean we never won... it was what the game always was. There hasn't ever been compelling world content in wow even if you go back to the start. The closest we ever got is the two weapon quests in classic....

    People would struggle to name a specific quest per zone they did even in classic. What they don't have problems recalling are the dungeons...

    The genre never shifted I just think your recalling a memory of a memory not the memory itself.
    It’s not what the game always was. “Memorable quests per zone” (although I’m sure players since Classic could come up with a pretty good list) isn’t the test. A better one would be to trawl through the millions of “best memories of Classic and Burning Crusade”, or even just Classic, threads on the Internet and compare how many of peoples’ memories are from instanced versus open world content. Nearly everything awesome that people look back on in early WoW was in the open world. Further, you had to find people in the world and walk them to instances—even instanced content worked as an extension of the world, not a replacement or invalidation. None of that is true anymore, and I think that shift (which has become fundamentally a shift in genre from “open world MMO” to “three dimensional queueing-for-content lobby”) originated with flying. There are certainly other culprits, but it started with Burning Crusade and the pointless, unasked-for addition of flight.

  20. #120
    Flying is great for killing time and just taking the freedom to see and explore the world from a different perspective.

    People don't want it to get in the way of questing? Just limit flight when you accept a world quest or phase it out. There's plenty of ways to limit flight mechanics without completely gating it.

    I preferred the Wrath-MoP approach of just allowing flight to happen by end game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

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