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  1. #61
    I like this theory a lot ! It always bothered me that the Jailer looked more like a prisonner, and you hit the nail on the head with your explanation.

    I think the "Jailer" being a usurper is a really interesting idea and twist on the story. I also like this idea because it doesn't change the fact that he is the main bad guy.

    We've yet to see what Zovaal did that make the Eternal Ones banish him in the first place, so the possibility is there for Zovaal to be another character all together.

    If this theory is true, the mystery remain about the identity of the person pretenting to be the Jailer. He must be a terrible soul, being in the Maw in the first place. It doesn't ressemble any race on worlds we know, like Azeroth, Draenor or Argus. Maybe he is a being from another world, who did terrible things and ended up there. Maybe the same world as the Nathrezim ? An alpha version of a Dreadlord, before any mutation due to fel ?

  2. #62
    Mechagnome Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    This is some real heavy stuff to process. I'm trying to deal with the thought that we might all eventually get possessed with our legendries that may consist runes of domination. Imagine us all running around the Maw like a bunch of senseless puppets. This is too much for me! We need to take off our legendries right now!
    Last edited by Cloudmaker; 2021-02-23 at 08:36 AM.

  3. #63
    During the blizzcon I hopped on Jailers wowpedia paige and started to wonder how did we go from this:



    To this:



    But the real problem with this strategy is this:

    The Jailer was first seen in the Shadowlands reveal trailer at BlizzCon 2019, in which only a silhouette of his body is shown. In late November 2019, an alleged piece of concept art of the Jailer where the Jailer's design matches the one in the trailer was shared by the YouTuber Pyromancer, who had been sent an image of the concept after it was posted on Twitter.[40] The Jailer's in-game model, however, looks drastically different from both of these depictions, notably lacking the hair and armor he was originally depicted with. When asked about this in April 2020, Ion Hazzikostas stated that the difference in design between the original trailer and his in-game model was not because of any story reasons but simply because Blizzard had not finalized the Jailer's design by the time the trailer was released at BlizzCon.[41]
    Either the story is completely smushed up and mixing Zovaal with Jailer or the players are doing it.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    I think the Runecarver being bad is the wrong takeaway from this theory. If he was bad, then why would "The Jailer" have taken his memories and imprisoned him while using his powers and magic to do his thing?

    More likely the impostor is some evil thing that was imprisoned and overthrew his Jailer.
    I think the Runecarver took his own memories first so that nothing could be extracted from him (by the baldie?). Remember, many of his memories are scattered outside of the Maw.
    Last edited by Lei; 2021-02-22 at 01:57 PM.

  5. #65
    That would have a real "SAW" type reveal to it if the guy chained up, helping us all along was the mastermind behind it. Or they could just go all the way and make the real jailer dead and these are just his extreme followers carrying it all out.

    I do find it odd this...primus?...can craft items of imaginable power but cant break his own chains.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by vaeevictiss View Post
    That would have a real "SAW" type reveal to it if the guy chained up, helping us all along was the mastermind behind it. Or they could just go all the way and make the real jailer dead and these are just his extreme followers carrying it all out.

    I do find it odd this...primus?...can craft items of imaginable power but cant break his own chains.
    He can't remember how.
    But moreover, we can just go visit him any time we want, not even being scared that the Baldie will catch us, and we can even use him to craft us legendaries. And the Baldie doesn't notice the RC has one hand freed.

  7. #67
    The only zone of the SL where there are runes and rune masters and rune weavers is Maldraxxus.

    Their primus is gone while investigating the Jailer , we have a runecarver jailed in Thorgast.

    The primus was a military strategist and genuis, the jailer extracted countless military design from the runecarver

    For me it's pretty clear

  8. #68
    Bloodsail Admiral Vasilisa's Avatar
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    @Op, I really liked your theory, though I'm afraid it's a bit too complicated for Warcraft story.

  9. #69
    I would love for your theory to be true, but I do not believe Blizzard is able to come up with such a good story.

  10. #70
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    I still think Primus is an actual final villain. His absence while constant guidance are fishy and shady. He is like the shadow master pulling the strings from nowhere.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Corroc View Post
    Either the story is completely smushed up and mixing Zovaal with Jailer or the players are doing it.
    Zovaal is explicitly the Jailer. So there's not much to guess on that side. Now, there is a possibility that the person we see isn't actually Zovaal, though i doubt that. There wouldn't be much point to such a twist since for us, it wouldn't really change anything. "Oh, that bad guy we're fighting is named differently? Well, guess we have to change our death threats."

  12. #72
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lothal View Post
    Could just be a show to make us trust him. Would also go well with the fact that it is so easy for us to just walk in on the Runecarver. Shouldn't the Jailer be making sure we can't get access to his prime smith?
    I would get that, if he did the torturing when we were there, but we only see it in a memory. So why would he do it to decieve us, if he had no idea that we would see it.

    Also, i think the idea of us going into torghast, is supposed to be somewhat of a secret, since we only get in there by the help of Venari.

    It also does seem like the Jailor does not really take us serious to be honest, and since the chains on the RuneCarver are near indestructable, maybe he does not think it would be possible for him to escape.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

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  13. #73
    i honestly thought this was a stupid theory upon clicking but i gave it a skim. i gotta say, holy crap the jailer concept art and the runecarver look so similar. that would actually be an awesome plot twist.

  14. #74
    So, the runecarver is zovaal..

    And the guy weve seen around pretending to be teh jailer must then be... Argus?
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  15. #75
    I honestly think you're on to something. I think it could be that baldie was an inmate in the Maw, and the Runecarver was Zovaal, the Eternal One that ruled over the Maw. Baldie managed a coup d etat in the Maw and jailed the jailor, usurping his position, and scattering his memories. So in the first cinematic announcement of Shadowlands, Sylvanas stands before a jailed Runecarver/Zovaal, as in, someone who baldie imprisioned. Baldie and Sylvanas would have common ground and shared goals, as both would have a bone to pick with the Maw and its Jailer, the whole idea of the Maw and the machine of death and wanting to overthrow it.

    Maybe the Maw as we see it now is not how the Maw was under the true Zovaal. My crazy wild guess is, what if the Maw had an actually productive purpose before, like every other shadowlands realm has, instead of being just of place of eternal suffering? Those sent there were the irredeemable, who wouldn't willingly do anything positive or productive, so what if the Domination magic was used to compel them? For Sylvanas, being under the influence of Domination again would have been a horrible fate that she certainly would do everything to escape, or join those who would change it. And free will has been a strong concept in this expansion, and specifically discussed in the first Sylvanas/Anduin cinematic.

    The thing that makes me doubt it, is the fact that Baldie and the Arbiter have this connection regarding his open chest and her black spherical heart. He wouldn't be just anyone. He could have been a previous arbiter, his heart/key stolen and given to a mechanical arbiter to do his job.
    Last edited by Hugnomo; 2021-02-22 at 03:15 PM.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Zovaal is explicitly the Jailer. So there's not much to guess on that side. Now, there is a possibility that the person we see isn't actually Zovaal, though i doubt that. There wouldn't be much point to such a twist since for us, it wouldn't really change anything. "Oh, that bad guy we're fighting is named differently? Well, guess we have to change our death threats."
    Ok so this was my point, if we know that Zovaal definitely is Jailer and Ion has confirmed that the guy who we call Jailer right now is indeed THE Jailer aka Zovaal then the whole theory is rather moot.

  17. #77
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudmaker View Post
    This is so scary now. Where is real Primus then?
    Maybe within the Sepulcher, as it is a secure location that the Jailer may not enter.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
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  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Corroc View Post
    Ok so this was my point, if we know that Zovaal definitely is Jailer and Ion has confirmed that the guy who we call Jailer right now is indeed THE Jailer aka Zovaal then the whole theory is rather moot.
    The real problem is that this hypothesis is moot either way. It doesn't matter whether Baldhead is Zovaal or not, since we're having issues with him either way.

    Or put another way, the giant smurf is clearly established as our enemy. What his name is doesn't really matter.

  19. #79
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    I think the entire premise hinges on one thing. Why is the Jailer in-prisoned with the rest of the inmates. Only issue i have with this is that those that guard the prisoners are also with them in the same building or location. Only difference between them and the "wow" jailer is that he lives in the premises. BUT, the other prisoners are his minions and the actual jail cells are in Torghast and other structures within the maw. The Jailer is free to roam around the Maw but his captives aren't, at least for the most part.

    Would be nice if there were some sort of pointer pointing to a different character but its not, but it's a cool thought exercise.

  20. #80
    I'm pretty sure the Jailer we've seen is the actual Jailer. As far as the runes on his body, I just sort of assumed that attuned him to any objects that had the runes on them, so that he could activate them from anywhere. If not though, there is another option.

    When Anduin confronted Kyrestia and she told the Jailer to release him, it's interesting to note that the Jailer specifically said "His soul is bound to me, just as you once sought to bind your own brother." IMO, Kyrestia may be the one who ordered the runes placed on him in an attempt to dominate him herself (or she may simply be the one who decided he needed to be imprisoned to begin with), and that may be why he went after her first. The Runecarver may be imprisoned both because he has information the Jailer needs and so the Jailer could keep him under wraps. After all, if the Runecarver is the one who put the runes all over Zovaal, it stands to reason that the Runecarver would control his actions. However, if the Runecarver is imprisoned and all his memories were stolen, he wouldn't know that he can control the Jailer.

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