Theory: "Zovaal, the Jailer" is an Imposter

[TheFirstOnes]

The Jailer's runes were likely made to keep him bound to the Maw, which he instead used to his own advantage. Especially now that he supposedly has the Primus under his control.

And in regards to the old-man Jailer look, that's just an old concept piece of the Jailer. Could potentially be him at Full Power, but that's a stretch.

And the Maw is basically a literal prison, and while it likely wasn't this way before, it's highly implied that the Maw became the Maw long before the Eternal Ones messed with it. Hence why Korthia got lost in the In-Between, or why you see Brokers fuck with the area a ton.

This theory is kinda not true anymore, especially now that we know the Jailer is quite literally the main and final antagonist of the Shadowlands, similar to Deathwing or the Lich King from their respective expansions.

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Some guys: The Jailer is an IMPOSTER!

Literally everyone in the SL expansion: Zovaal is the Jailer! He is evil as fuck, and committed some of the worst crimes ever! So much so, that if he's ever freed from the Maw, everything that we've fought for would be for naught.

Idk how some of you bring up this weird theory of Zovaal NOT being the Jailer. Ion's literally said multiple times that the Jailer is the main antagonist, and that Zovaal is the ACTUAL, FULL ON JAILER! And before you bring up Ion's "No old god" shit from BFA, mind you that Ion clarifies on his Jailer comments by saying "usually, in past expansions, we try to hide the final boss for the final patch. But this time, we want to be more akin to WoTLK or Cata, by having the Villain front and center for us to try and defeat throughout the expansion!"

So, no. There is no "imposter". The Jailer is Zovaal. And Zovaal is the final boss of SL.

[Ophenia]

Some guys: The Jailer is an IMPOSTER!

Literally everyone in the SL expansion: Zovaal is the Jailer! He is evil as fuck, and committed some of the worst crimes ever! So much so, that if he's ever freed from the Maw, everything that we've fought for would be for naught.

"Some guys" are simply hoping there is more than "he is evil doh, kill him plz oh my CHAMPION I'm so afraid of him". It's not because "everyone in SL" say so that it has to be true. We've got only partial information so far. Zovaal bad, must banish, but everyone's being mysterious on what is his treachery about.

So yeah, people are theorizing and... that's nothing bad, really. And nothing that will ever come from Ion's mouth will stop people from theorizing, especially after the previous expac fiascos where they announced things that weren't true. "Maybe that's not Sylvanas that burnt the true and there's more to that hehehheheheheheheh well in fact no it was her"

I think everyone here agree with you on the fact that the one that looks like a bad guy, sounds like a bad guy, is edgy like a bad guy and has the same usual bad guys goals (CONSUME EVERYTHING) likely IS the bad guy and we'll deal with him through the power of friendship after he has cornered us against a wall with a 5...4...3... countdown. But players who love the lore are still in the right to expect something more.

Lich King and Cataclysm story were more straight-forward and you could believe the bad guys were bad guys. We knew Deathwing's past, it appeared clear he didn't have a 5D chess planned since 20 millenia, he just wanted to ... burn ... things. So yeah, nothing to negotiate here, we don't wanna burn, we have to deal with him.
Here Jailer is who he is for reasons, he betrayed his "friends" eons ago for god-knows-why, he seems angry/vengeful about something we don't clearly know why, there are billions of lingering mysteries around him (the Keys, the Sepulcher, the Maw itself, Jailer's runes, Jailer's title, the Arbiter, Runecarver)... Obviously people will be theorizing. That's because Shadowlands' story is not as straightforward as it seems.

[TheFirstOnes]

"Some guys" are simply hoping there is more than "he is evil doh, kill him plz oh my CHAMPION I'm so afraid of him". It's not because "everyone in SL" say so that it has to be true. We've got only partial information so far. Zovaal bad, must banish, but everyone's being mysterious on what is his treachery about.

So yeah, people are theorizing and... that's nothing bad, really. And nothing that will ever come from Ion's mouth will stop people from theorizing, especially after the previous expac fiascos where they announced things that weren't true. "Maybe that's not Sylvanas that burnt the true and there's more to that hehehheheheheheheh well in fact no it was her"

I think everyone here agree with you on the fact that the one that looks like a bad guy, sounds like a bad guy, is edgy like a bad guy and has the same usual bad guys goals (CONSUME EVERYTHING) likely IS the bad guy and we'll deal with him through the power of friendship after he has cornered us against a wall with a 5...4...3... countdown. But players who love the lore are still in the right to expect something more.

Or, you could wait for 9.1 to actually reveal his plans, or you could read the Enemy Infiltration book, which gives out a pretty good idea as to why the Jailer's so fucking terrifying, especially with help.

"But players who love the lore are still in the right to expect something more." And we are gonna get more. Just don't be shocked if it's something like "Oh yeah, the Jailer is an evil 10-D chess player that loves fucking with the Cosmos to get what he wants".

[qwerty123456]

I think the Runecarver being bad is the wrong takeaway from this theory. If he was bad, then why would "The Jailer" have taken his memories and imprisoned him while using his powers and magic to do his thing?

More likely the impostor is some evil thing that was imprisoned and overthrew his Jailer.

When, Why, and how would the jailer take the runecarvers memories in the first place when he needs him to craft him shit. Also why would he spread those memories all over the place and not just keep them locked up? The Runecarver has been creating universal threat shit with ease and we aren't told its been modified by anyone else. He is the only person we have discovered that has any power that would warrant locking them up. Also I thought they said the Primus only went missing recently when the Runecarver created Frostmourne, helm of domination, and shit. If the Runecarver was creating shit like Frostmourne thousands of years ago it would explain why they would want to lock up their friend/brother.

It does make sense though if the Runecarver is Zovaal and purposely removed memories from himself to "infest" others. It would also explain why they are found all over the place, why he has agents all over, and why often times held by his lieutenants. Of course it could just be because they wanted a game mechanic where you had to find and discover your legendary powers but it also makes a ton of sense story wise.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I didn't even see this thread or the topic, so I'm going to post here what I posted in another thread:


Somebody made an observation about the Jailer and "domination magic" from the new interviews.


In the interviews, they revealed the existence "domination magic" and stated the Pantheon of Death used this magic to seal the Jailer in the Maw. I thought it was "the magic from Ardenweald" that did this, so maybe it was both?


Anyway, it's explained that this domination magic suppresses one's will rather than mind control them directly. We see in the 'Kingsmourne' cinematic after Anduin stabs the Archon, his armor is not glowing (the runes on the armor) nor were Anduin's eyes glowing... and Anduin's personality resurfaces briefly. Only when the Jailer's domination magic kicks back in do the runes begin to glow again, eyes begin to glow again and re-dominates over Anduin.


All of this being said, notice also how the Jailer has the similar glowing runes on his body and eyes glowing.


Probably a long shot chance, but what are the odds that the Jailer himself is being permanently dominated? That the body of the Jailer is merely another vessel and the true "Jailer" -- the voice, the personality, the goal to destroy everything -- is somebody else entirely?


This is the quote from the forums:

Now, I think there’s a curious implication here. Remember when Andy one-shot the Archon? Good times, right? Well, when that happened, Andy’s will was suppressed by the Domination Runes on his Armor.

I think the Jailer is also perpetually under influence of Domination Magic. I think the runes tattooed on his flesh are basically the Eternal Ones’ use of the thing, and what it does is: It suppresses the Jailer’s will to leave.

A lot of people have questioned: If the Jailer’s minions can just fly out of the Maw, why can’t they carry the Jailer with them? And I think that’s the answer. The Domination Magic cast on the Jailer stops him from trying to leave. It even stops him from doing something like ordering his minions to drag him out.

So he has to escape through the cracks of the magic. He has to break the hold on him by doing things that he isn’t forbidden to do. And that’s why his methods seem so roundabout and overly complicated. There are lots of obstacles to his plans that we can’t even see because the obstacles are in his brain.

That’s just a hypothesis, but it would explain lots of plot holes of Shadowlands.

[TigTone]

I didn't even see this thread or the topic, so I'm going to post here what I posted in another thread:


Somebody made an observation about the Jailer and "domination magic" from the new interviews.


In the interviews, they revealed the existence "domination magic" and stated the Pantheon of Death used this magic to seal the Jailer in the Maw. I thought it was "the magic from Ardenweald" that did this, so maybe it was both?


Anyway, it's explained that this domination magic suppresses one's will rather than mind control them directly. We see in the 'Kingsmourne' cinematic after Anduin stabs the Archon, his armor is not glowing (the runes on the armor) nor were Anduin's eyes glowing... and Anduin's personality resurfaces briefly. Only when the Jailer's domination magic kicks back in do the runes begin to glow again, eyes begin to glow again and re-dominates over Anduin.


All of this being said, notice also how the Jailer has the similar glowing runes on his body and eyes glowing.


Probably a long shot chance, but what are the odds that the Jailer himself is being permanently dominated? That the body of the Jailer is merely another vessel and the true "Jailer" -- the voice, the personality, the goal to destroy everything -- is somebody else entirely?


This is the quote from the forums:

That is some great deductions and it explains a lot. I am on board with this explanation.

[huth]

When, Why, and how would the jailer take the runecarvers memories in the first place when he needs him to craft him shit.

He doesn't. The Runecarver is just the source for the plans, Zovaal made the weapons himself.

[qwerty123456]

He doesn't. The Runecarver is just the source for the plans, Zovaal made the weapons himself.

There's a cutscene of the Jailer having the Runecarver craft shit.

[kassy]

There's a cutscene of the Jailer having the Runecarver craft shit.

think you're confusing the one where he extracts the plans, never seen this.

[qwerty123456]

think you're confusing the one where he extracts the plans, never seen this.

I was remembering the leaked cutscene wip where the jailer is talking to the runecarver then the runecarver shoots a beam and crafts the helm of domination. You are right the final version looks like memories or something in the jailers hand.

[stormrage666]

This would be a nice plot-twist

But I bet Blizz writers never tought about that.

[Strawberry]

Zovaal is the boss of Maw. And he is in Maw.
But as far as I can remember, the last expansion patch always added a new zone.
So if Zovaal is in Maw and can't leave it, and we get a new zone then there has to be someone else who's the real Jailer (since Blizzard said that Jailer is the last boss).
Sure Zovaal might escape somewhere, but I don't see it happening that we get to chase him for 3 major patches before we finally get to deal with him.

[UndedoKoleda]

I think Zovaal is actually his original self, BUT if we go into the realm of wild speculation we could consider that he is being manipulated by the Primus.

What do we know about the Primus? He is the leader of the military force of the Shadowlands. He is considered as tactical genius, thinking few steps ahead.

From what we've seen in Maldraxxus he actually doesn't seem like your normal supreme military leader. Almost if he is doing it on purpose to not look like the usual warmongering and power hungry militant.

How did this person disappear without anyone noticing? He literally lived in a military base, if the Jailer tried to abduct him, all hell would break loose(hehe). Also the Maldraxxi are shown to have a broad(at the time) spy network. How did such a tactical genius miss that Denathrius is working for Zovaal, the venthyr weren't even very secretive about it?

If the Pimus is indeed the Runecarver, I think he extracted his own memories on purpose and let himself get captured by the Maw forces as a first step in a much grander scheme. If he really thinks few steps ahead that wouldn't be a very big surprise. The question is what could be his end game? Was he the one responsible for the malfunction of the Arbiter?

Also why is he not on the Loading Screen and neither on the Eternal Ones poster from Blizzcon? Are Blizzard hiding him on purpose?

[shoc]

I think Zovaal is actually his original self, BUT if we go into the realm of wild speculation we could consider that he is being manipulated by the Primus.

What do we know about the Primus? He is the leader of the military force of the Shadowlands. He is considered as tactical genius, thinking few steps ahead.

From what we've seen in Maldraxxus he actually doesn't seem like your normal supreme military leader. Almost if he is doing it on purpose to not look like the usual warmongering and power hungry militant.

How did this person disappear without anyone noticing? He literally lived in a military base, if the Jailer tried to abduct him, all hell would break loose(hehe). Also the Maldraxxi are shown to have a broad(at the time) spy network. How did such a tactical genius miss that Denathrius is working for Zovaal, the venthyr weren't even very secretive about it?

If the Pimus is indeed the Runecarver, I think he extracted his own memories on purpose and let himself get captured by the Maw forces as a first step in a much grander scheme. If he really thinks few steps ahead that wouldn't be a very big surprise. The question is what could be his end game? Was he the one responsible for the malfunction of the Arbiter?

Also why is he not on the Loading Screen and neither on the Eternal Ones poster from Blizzcon? Are Blizzard hiding him on purpose?

My theory is that the Primus and Denathrius were actually both secretly in league with the Jailer. Would explain why Krexus is standing by the Jailer and Denathrius in the loading screen. If the Primus was secretly in the Maw, plotting with the Jailer, and then was betrayed by him and imprisoned, then yes he would have disappeared without a trace as far as the Maldraxxians were concerned.

[Soon-TM]

If this guy ended up being the actual bad guy of the expansion somehow, I'd be impressed. This guy has been handing us out legendaries like candy and we've been dumb enough to accept them and wear them on our person with these domination runes present. Ven'ari introduced us to him and we've been told to be skeptical in regards to Ven'ari so this could all be apart of their plan.

This would be a great twist if they plan to do that.

Plot twist: we (aka the PC) are the bad guys/girls in 10.0 - oh well, one can always dream

[username993720]

Great speculation.
Actually, would have loved it if Zovaal turned out to be an escaped convict that took over the prison and imprisoned the "Warden".
The other Eternal ones could have sent him there, with the true Jailer (bearded guy) being the leader of the place, while Zovaal (bald guy) had been a leader of another Shadowland realm, up until his imprisonment.
Sylvanas could have been in allegiance with the true, bearded Jailer, as can be seen by the gameplay trailer (showing him chained up - probably by Zovaal) but, eventually, turned to the escaped convict because he showed more promise (being in control of the place). It would make sense for him to want to rip apart the system, because he suffered in the prison, for what he probably believes was unjustified (the cause of his impisonment).

[THEORACLE64]

I think the Jailer is obviously Zovaal, but I think he doesn’t look like what he did originally.

I don’t think the Maw has always existed how it has, so I think Zovaal/the jailer betrayed the other four and they obviously jailed him there. I think he was probably more like the concept art that leaked and was the “Arbiter” of the shadowlands. My guess is that he abused that power (maybe got too anima greedy) and they all resisted and created the arbiter - whatever’s in her chest doesn’t match her at all but does the Jailers.

[Nohara]

I wouldn't say it is outlandish, we've seen similar threads on /r/warcraftlore. And I agree, the Zovaal/Jailer we see is either an imposter, or a vessel for the real Jailer/someone else.

I also believe Runecrafter is not The Primus, it is the real Jailer wiped of his memory. And I also believe that the covenant leaders aren't telling us the truth about the Primus. Perhaps the Primus didn't vanish on his own, but is banished to the Maw by the Archon (and/or The Winter Queen).

My theory is that the Zovaal/Jailer we are seeing is just a vessel of the Primus, using the original Jailers voice. Our known Zovaal is just a creation. An accumulation of the most evil souls ever send into the maw.

"Death was never meant to be chained", and who represents death? The Primus.

[TheFirstOnes]

I think the Jailer is obviously Zovaal, but I think he doesn’t look like what he did originally.

I don’t think the Maw has always existed how it has, so I think Zovaal/the jailer betrayed the other four and they obviously jailed him there. I think he was probably more like the concept art that leaked and was the “Arbiter” of the shadowlands. My guess is that he abused that power (maybe got too anima greedy) and they all resisted and created the arbiter - whatever’s in her chest doesn’t match her at all but does the Jailers.

Nothing implies he was any kind of "Arbiter" before the actual Arbiter. Hell, it's implied that Zovaal wasn't even anything that special before his imprisonment. He was merely a part of the Pantheon of Death, much like how Sargeras was with the Titan Pantheon.

"whatever’s in her chest doesn’t match her at all but does the Jailers." That doesn't really mean anything outside of the fact that whatever the Arbiter has, is either drained by the fact that she's in a coma, or that she most likely stole it from the Jailer, which is why the Jailer's limited in power right now, and needs the covenant keys to get to her. It's also possibly why him slaying the Arbiter would be extremely catastrophic, outside of the whole "Oh yeah, killing the Arbiter would most likely mean the Purpose and the Cosmic Chart gets smacked across its head".

You're right on everything else though. Blizzard's straight up stated that the Maw wasn't the Maw before, and that's probably why Korthia exists tbh. Maybe Korthia was what the Maw once was, since it got lost in the In-Between, and is apparently right by the current Maw, and is also a broken fragment of the area.

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Also, it's clear that the Jailer's not how he originally looked. The dude's completely fucked up, and is still imprisoned, despite all the power he's currently received. Maybe he's always been bald? But who knows. Maybe he wasn't even Blue before. We'll have to wait and see.

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I wouldn't say it is outlandish, we've seen similar threads on /r/warcraftlore. And I agree, the Zovaal/Jailer we see is either an imposter, or a vessel for the real Jailer/someone else.

I also believe Runecrafter is not The Primus, it is the real Jailer wiped of his memory. And I also believe that the covenant leaders aren't telling us the truth about the Primus. Perhaps the Primus didn't vanish on his own, but is banished to the Maw by the Archon (and/or The Winter Queen).

My theory is that the Zovaal/Jailer we are seeing is just a vessel of the Primus, using the original Jailers voice. Our known Zovaal is just a creation. An accumulation of the most evil souls ever send into the maw.

"Death was never meant to be chained", and who represents death? The Primus.

Ehhh? That's a massive piece of speculation, and I won't lie, this feels like a reach. The Runecarver and the Primus have the same face, both are masters of rune magics, both are keepers of secrets, etc. Would be perfect if the Eternal Ones saw the Primus as "the Runecarver" in 9.1. Would also be a dark reveal to them as well.

[Amnaught]

Okay so like hear me out

If The Runecarver is Zovaal.... Could the Jailer be Argus???