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  1. #1

    Are bots/rmt beneficial for blizzard or not?

    If Blizzard had the option to eliminate all bots/rmt instantly for free, would they do it? Would that increase their profits and the longevity of the game?

    This is probably more of an economic question. Has anyone done research on this subject?

    Would you consider any form of rmt "healthy"?

  2. #2
    Bots push down the prices and force legitimate players to buy tokens to buy boosts because farming for gold is no longer viable = $ for Blizzard

    This game is sustained by a huge whale population spamming 10 tokens a week for boosts.

  3. #3
    they do ban bots, but I'm sure they don't insta-ban to make sure they create new accounts and try again. if your bot runs for X hours it can pay off the cost of a new account, so the botters keep coming back.

  4. #4
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kassy View Post
    they do ban bots, but I'm sure they don't insta-ban to make sure they create new accounts and try again. if your bot runs for X hours it can pay off the cost of a new account, so the botters keep coming back.
    And also because instantly banning botters would make it easier for botters to find out how to avoid detection. Literally every game worth its salt bans in waves, because it makes it harder to find out how they detect cheating/botters.

    The only exception being the super obvious cheats that don't even try to obfuscate, those get shut down immediately

  5. #5
    how beneficial it is for blizzard depends on how accepting the community is of it. and over time the acceptance has gone up.

    or to be more specific: RMT used to be associated with cheating, and thus people were against it. nowadays RMT is at it's all time high due to tokens and people are perfectly fine with it, but they are still against cheating.

  6. #6
    It's a bad experience for players and it makes Blizz look bad when it isn't taken care of. Makes it seem like Blizz don't care, while players feel cheated and less immersed and less invested. Ultimately, not fun.

    Unless Blizzard is operating these bot/rmt operations themselves I doubt they're profiting from it. Other games have their own bots but theirs at least aren't shady, and the automation and autoplay style is often touted as a feature nowadays.

    So yeah if anything it's taking away business opportunity from Blizzard who could have their own form in (like token) that they could profit from while getting rid of some of the stigma.

    Game gets more p2w stigma if they implement their own, but at least it stiffles the competition and gives players a safe avenue - which is worth something, as players don't want to risk being banned often enough.

    I don't think the cost of implementing and maintaining a bot/rmt feature support is necessarily worth the long term damage to the reputation and competitive and achievement and progression nature of the game. I think that road when oft exploited leads to ruin eventually.

  7. #7
    Food for thought:
    buying Mythic-level (226) gear directly via $$$ is considered cheating/p2w
    but
    if an item drops, goes into the AH for the price of X tokens, and you can buy those tokens with $$$??? it's just a few extra steps!

  8. #8
    If they had a magic button to fix, i think they would.

    Take Multiboxing for example, for all the shit Blizzard gets, the fact that they went after Multiboxing was a huge win, despite there Blizzard also being accused of not doing anything because Multiboxer are basically whales.

    However, i think plain pragmatism just wins over there, they know it's an endless battle, so "total victory" cannot be achieved and thus would be a waste of resources to try.
    They just fight hard enough to keep their face.
    If botting gets out of hand, they act on it, we saw that a year ago in Classic when bots really started to swarm over and the community made a fuss about it, Blizzard started to act on them.

    Now?
    Nobody cares anymore again, thus Blizzard doesn't feel forced to put more resources into going after bots.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Orwell7 View Post
    Food for thought:
    buying Mythic-level (226) gear directly via $$$ is considered cheating
    but
    if an item drops, goes into the AH for the price of X tokens, and you can buy those tokens with $$$??? it's just a few extra steps!
    It's wrong because you pay a 3rd party site.

    Tokens you get through the game and pay in the ingame store.

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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    It's wrong because you pay a 3rd party site.

    Tokens you get through the game and pay in the ingame store.
    Wrong for who? You? Blizz? The game? Its exactly the same, you just cut out the middle man.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    And also because instantly banning botters would make it easier for botters to find out how to avoid detection. Literally every game worth its salt bans in waves, because it makes it harder to find out how they detect cheating/botters.

    The only exception being the super obvious cheats that don't even try to obfuscate, those get shut down immediately
    If a bot is standing near a lake only attacking yellow monsters and only skinning those that literally drop near it's feet then there is not much "magic" behind finding out how people realized it's a bot. Same for people running around in a perfect conga line around the Nazmir tar pits. Many bots don't even try, because they know that they can recuperate a multiple of the cost before they get banned.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  12. #12
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    If a bot is standing near a lake only attacking yellow monsters and only skinning those that literally drop near it's feet then there is not much "magic" behind finding out how people realized it's a bot. Same for people running around in a perfect conga line around the Nazmir tar pits. Many bots don't even try, because they know that they can recuperate a multiple of the cost before they get banned.
    Just because they look robotic in-game doesn't mean that what Blizzard sees is robotic. They don't have GMs on all the servers checking to see everything, they only look at the logs that it leaves behind.
    Which means that a bot running around with 10 others behind it picking up flowers is almost or completely indistinguishably from a player multiboxing doing the same thing, while the bot is acting against TOS, while the player isn't.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kassy View Post
    they do ban bots, but I'm sure they don't insta-ban to make sure they create new accounts and try again. if your bot runs for X hours it can pay off the cost of a new account, so the botters keep coming back.
    False. They don't make any money off of these bots. The overwhelming vast majority of botting happens on stolen accounts, paid for with stolen credit cards. It actually costs them money, they don't make any.

    Most of these criminal groups have tens or hundreds of thousands of compromised accounts ready to go (with the number of WOW accounts that have been created over the years it's not that hard to do this, especially since the overwhelming vast majority of them are inactive). The bots are usually banned within hours, but you don't "see" it because they just switch to the next compromised account in the stack and continue as usual. The accounts are stolen, they know they will get banned, and they don't care - they are tools. When one tool breaks, you switch to the next one. And these accounts are funded by stolen credit cards (usually from their "customers" - meaning those they sell the stolen gold and items to). Botting is the last thing they do with these accounts, after they are done stripping them of anything of value and sending the gold off to be sold. Botting is just to provide a little extra value out of the account while they still have it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    Just because they look robotic in-game doesn't mean that what Blizzard sees is robotic. They don't have GMs on all the servers checking to see everything, they only look at the logs that it leaves behind.
    Which means that a bot running around with 10 others behind it picking up flowers is almost or completely indistinguishably from a player multiboxing doing the same thing, while the bot is acting against TOS, while the player isn't.
    Actually this is also wrong. The logs show a LOT more detail than "a GM standing there checking" ever would. Logs will definitely show robotic/scripted behavior (things like timings a human player couldn't achieve, etc).

    Don't get me wrong, Blizzard is a *terrible* company these days, and I have nothing against shitting on them where they deserve it (like content design or lack thereof, ugh), but botting is one area where they actually are doing all they can.
    Last edited by Stormspark; 2021-03-02 at 06:13 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    Wrong for who? You? Blizz? The game? Its exactly the same, you just cut out the middle man.
    It's wrong because the Rules say so...

    and the 3rd part is the middle man.

    It's also morally wrong to give the RMT people any money.

    The best thing would be if blizz just added loot and stuff to the actual store, so you did not even have to get boosters and could just buy every thing you need there
    Last edited by Nalam the Venom; 2021-03-02 at 06:21 PM.

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  15. #15
    Of course, they are beneficial since one bot/rmt will pay at least 1000 subs at the same time or farming gold to boost the demand of wow tokens (wow tokens are much more expensive than sub). $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for blizzard.

    What Blizzard also did in the past was to block spam filters addons and nerf underpowered classes. $$$$$$$$$$$.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aizen244 View Post
    If Blizzard had the option to eliminate all bots/rmt instantly for free, would they do it? Would that increase their profits and the longevity of the game?

    This is probably more of an economic question. Has anyone done research on this subject?

    Would you consider any form of rmt "healthy"?
    No form of RMT is healthy or permitted. And Blizzard wouldn't gain or lose by eliminating all bots, players would be harmed though as the market will increase in price for a while.




    And I can see the comments coming, so I'll add it here.

    You buy a token in the store -> Sell it on the auction house -> get gold from another PLAYER -> another player gains one month of game time.
    Last edited by Lochton; 2021-03-02 at 06:28 PM.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    You buy a token in the store -> Sell it on the auction house -> get gold from another PLAYER -> another player gains one month of game time.
    sure, tokens reduce automated gold farming which is good.

    but a bot can't get you gladiator, cutting edge, or a m+ carry. and that part of RMT has massively increased since the tokens became a thing.

    sure the money goes to blizz instead of a 3rd party, but the effects on the game and game economy are the same.

    it's honestly stupid, my guilds heroic offday raid has pretty much stopped happening because half the guild is in a boosting community would rather sell their loot eligibility to strangers than help friends/guildies. and why wouldn't they? they make enough from boosting that they can just buy those carries themselves whenever they want something. that's a pretty darn real example that the game is pay2win now.
    Last edited by Hellobolis; 2021-03-02 at 06:43 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Orwell7 View Post
    Food for thought:
    buying Mythic-level (226) gear directly via $$$ is considered cheating/p2w
    but
    if an item drops, goes into the AH for the price of X tokens, and you can buy those tokens with $$$??? it's just a few extra steps!
    Your missing the whole point as usual. Firstly, the money goes to Blizzard, not some third party. Secondly, you are using a trusted, secure transaction. Thirdly, the money spent at least partly goes to "improving" the game, not allowing a third party to research and\or fund hackers, bots, or other malicious behaviour in game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    sure, tokens reduce automated gold farming which is good.

    but a bot can't get you gladiator, cutting edge, or a m+ carry. and that part of RMT has massively increased since the tokens became a thing.

    sure the money goes to blizz instead of a 3rd party, but the effects on the game and game economy are the same.

    it's honestly stupid, my guilds heroic offday raid has pretty much stopped happening because half the guild is in a boosting community would rather sell their loot eligibility to strangers than help friends/guildies. and why wouldn't they? they make enough from boosting that they can just buy those carries themselves whenever they want something. that's a pretty darn real example that the game is pay2win now.
    The effects are not the same. Let's say that each month a million separate transactions for tokens are done. That is a very optimistic guess considering wow is always dying or dead. That's an extra 5m a month or 60m a year. Sure, 60m is a lot of money for us, but for blizzard it's ok. When you use tokens you take 60m a year away from third parties which means less resources for malicious acts in the game. Less money for third parties means bots are less economical. Less gold selling. Less stolen accounts.

    Whether or not the token is true P2W is debatable considering the 47 threads we've already had on the subject but stating that giving the money to blizz is the same as giving it to third parties is just false.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    When you use tokens you take 60m a year away from third parties which means less resources for malicious acts in the game. Less money for third parties means bots are less economical. Less gold selling. Less stolen accounts.
    yeah and every pirated movie is a lost sale too :P. no. the RMT market was much smaller when it came with the risk of getting banned.

    just look at the scale those boosting communities operate at, that simply didn't happen pre-RMT/tokens.

    Whether or not the token is true P2W is debatable considering the 47 threads we've already had on the subject but stating that giving the money to blizz is the same as giving it to third parties is just false.
    at the end of the day, anything i want in wow i can buy with real money now without breaking ToS. the things you can't buy can be counted on one hand.

    more importantly, the real money cost of things like a M+ or heroic raid carry are so low they are effectively commodities.
    Last edited by Hellobolis; 2021-03-02 at 07:28 PM.

  20. #20
    No, bots are not beneficial:

    - Blizzard has to put tons of resources into stopping automated play from being allowed
    - Blizzard has to put tons of resources into closing accounts doing things against terms of use (automated gameplay or real money transactions)
    - Blizzard has to put tons of resources into any kind of legal battles between Blizzard and third party program developers
    - Blizzard has to put tons of resources into programming automatic detection of people doing things that are not possible by humans (aimbot/wall hacks)
    - Blizzard has to put tons of resources into sometimes following gold trades/mails/auctions to revoke exploitatively stolen gold, even if it's in a legit player's hands at that point
    - Blizzard has to put tons of resources into identifying and refunding fraudulent uses of debit/credit cards

    I'm sure they'd rather not have to deal with any of that if they had a choice.

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