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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I honestly don't think there's any combo of non meta specs that can't time all +15s. Did one the other day with me a frost dk, a frost mage, and a survival hunter.

    I'm sure you could prot war, mw healer, surv hunter, demo lock, feral druid and still easily get ksm
    I never said that. I said the discrepancy is much larger this expansion and the timers are tighter then they where in bfa(especially in the end of bfa).

    Comes down to some specs needing to work much harder for +15's then others

  2. #322
    M+ is probably one of the worst things I've seen in an RPG. Focusing on speedrunning and a Diablo torment system is ridiculous and shits on everything an RPG has stood for for the past 40 years (the earliest RPG video game came out in 1982).

  3. #323
    Many in game activity would not be appealing without incentives (loot), to single out just M+ is unfair and agenda driven.

    For a more objective view to see what people like, look at LEGEND. People want legendary, some do maw of soul over and over, some fly around and pick chest, some do WQ, I like to raid, all my attempt to join emerald nightmare N+H group in weekend got filled up in 20-30 minutes with like 20+ people (even when story advanced to broken shore already). Now you know in general what people prefer to spend their time on.
    Last edited by gobio; 2021-03-11 at 06:40 AM.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    But that they enjoy the loot it gives.

    In BfA you could reach Mythic level of gear by just doing a weekly +15. People were so used to easy gearing like that, that they cry about it this expansion.
    People do not enjoy m+ for the content it brings, they solely enjoy to do it because of the loot it gives.

    Only a small minority seems to enjoy m+ so much, the rest only cares about the gear.
    So many people crying that the gear isn't a high enough ilvl and that it's not often dropped.

    I thought that people enjoyed this content regardless? I thought m+ was fun? What happened?
    What's this based on? Your feelings?

  5. #325
    I like the concept of M+. Bite-sized, time-gated dungeon content is absolutely something that appeals to me in principle.

    Where I just cannot get behind it is the implementation - both the meta restraints and the reward structure are a major turn-off for me.

  6. #326
    I don't really enjoy mythic plus.... right now I'm 210 just from raiding with my very casual guild... 6 hours a week, 8/10 heroic

    Now though I only have 2 or 3 slots below 213.... we'll be getting 220's from generals and sire over the next month....

    I look forward to next week's raid.... even though the drop rates suck, I don't look forward to the vault, because it has pretty much sucked for me... just this week, my 2 213 items were the only two cloth belts in CN, of which I already had both

    So now I kinda feel forced to do mythics to progress between now and 9.1.... I don't really " need " the gear so to speak... I am not a burden to my raid team...

    It's just that who the hell wants to stagnate for 3 months waiting for 9.1 to come out ???

    This upgrade system is stupid, it is obvious Blizz is trying to funnel their players into mythics... which only serves the boosters and causes resentment in players that don't really want to grind mythic dungeons

    I get it... they want to create an E-sport out of mythics and pvp... but, you can have other system upgrades too, that don't simply cater to pvp and mythic grinders

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiekyerbooty View Post
    I don't really enjoy mythic plus.... right now I'm 210 just from raiding with my very casual guild... 6 hours a week, 8/10 heroic

    Now though I only have 2 or 3 slots below 213.... we'll be getting 220's from generals and sire over the next month....

    I look forward to next week's raid.... even though the drop rates suck, I don't look forward to the vault, because it has pretty much sucked for me... just this week, my 2 213 items were the only two cloth belts in CN, of which I already had both

    So now I kinda feel forced to do mythics to progress between now and 9.1.... I don't really " need " the gear so to speak... I am not a burden to my raid team...

    It's just that who the hell wants to stagnate for 3 months waiting for 9.1 to come out ???

    This upgrade system is stupid, it is obvious Blizz is trying to funnel their players into mythics... which only serves the boosters and causes resentment in players that don't really want to grind mythic dungeons

    I get it... they want to create an E-sport out of mythics and pvp... but, you can have other system upgrades too, that don't simply cater to pvp and mythic grinders
    Prior to 9.0.5 it was 100% impossible to get an item > 210 from mythic+ outside of the 1 single per week vault.

    That is all valor was moving to address. Ways to make running the actual dungeons, and EoD loot, to be able to be somewhat useful.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    Prior to 9.0.5 it was 100% impossible to get an item > 210 from mythic+ outside of the 1 single per week vault.

    That is all valor was moving to address. Ways to make running the actual dungeons, and EoD loot, to be able to be somewhat useful.
    That makes sense, and I can agree with that logic, because the pvp upgrade system was similar and pvper's love it

    So now we have a good upgrade system for pvp, and mythic grinders, so what about an upgrade system for casuals and raid loggers ?

  9. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiekyerbooty View Post
    That makes sense, and I can agree with that logic, because the pvp upgrade system was similar and pvper's love it

    So now we have a good upgrade system for pvp, and mythic grinders, so what about an upgrade system for casuals and raid loggers ?
    Raids could use some system, though Blizz just considers all PvE to be in the same bucket, so that means the M+ system for them.

    Every upgrade system is gated by the difficulty of the content one does though. Which means casuals who choose not to do group content already have theirs: the covenant armor that can be upgraded to match the highest WQ reward ilvl.

  10. #330
    The only people I know still playing the game are timing M+ keys. So fwiw I think that's not the issue with this expansion.

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    M+ is probably one of the worst things I've seen in an RPG. Focusing on speedrunning and a Diablo torment system is ridiculous and shits on everything an RPG has stood for for the past 40 years (the earliest RPG video game came out in 1982).
    Yep. As much as I dislike the usual hyperbole I'm starting to agree that more and more WoW is dispensing with the RPG side of MMORPGs. There's some story still to be had, but absolutely no sense of adventure in the game as everything is geared more towards an e-sports point-of-view.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  12. #332
    Careful, the rabid masses of mmo champ don't like threads that point out the very real flaws of m+.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    Yep. As much as I dislike the usual hyperbole I'm starting to agree that more and more WoW is dispensing with the RPG side of MMORPGs. There's some story still to be had, but absolutely no sense of adventure in the game as everything is geared more towards an e-sports point-of-view.
    You can blame mythic plus for that and the fact that people eat it up when it's a garbage design that shits all over actual RPG design. The guy above got infracted for whatever but he's 100% right. M+ is cancer and it makes the community that much more of a toxic cesspit.

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    You can blame mythic plus for that and the fact that people eat it up when it's a garbage design that shits all over actual RPG design. The guy above got infracted for whatever but he's 100% right.
    You may dislike the design, other people love it. What else is there to say?
    As for the RPG part - has it really been better in vanilla / TBC? If anything, there is more story to be had currently, and the player is part of that story.

    And the guy above - I reported him for flame baiting. He just called some people "rabid masses" and brought nothing to the topic.
    I have enough of EA ruining great franchises and studios, forcing DRM and Origin on their games, releasing incomplete games only to sell day-1 DLCs or spill dozens of DLCs, and then saying it, and microtransactions, is what players want, stopping players from giving EA games poor reviews, as well as deflecting complaints with cheap PR tricks.

    I'm not going to buy any game by EA as long as they continue those practices.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    well... what is fun about repeating the dungeons? i saw the dungeons and learned them in first week... then m+ is just the same dungeons i already did... with increased scaling...
    You should notice that on lower keys, you can ignore some mechanics that would later on wipe you /delay the run. And every group is different, the affixes change stuff etc.

    By your logic, everything is the same. You do the raid once. You do pvp once - because well, it's the same bg/arena. You play MOBAs once - because it's always the same.

    The way m+ works is: it gives you the challenge if you like it. Some people will fight for +25, some will be aiming for 20s, some will never reach keystone conquerer (15). But that's because people mess up mechanics, dont know abilities, dont use their cc or interrupt etc. dont use their defensives.

    I healed a halls run and we wiped a 16 pride - because the hunter got hit by spiteful - and they managed to spawn the Pride 10sec before the last trash pull mob died. That's the kind of stuff a well played group doesnt let happen. They get the timing properly, they cc the spiteful adds and kill the pride.

    Your random pug group messes stuff up. They do not use their defensives, CCs, they focus the wrong mobs, they get by spideful shades (even ranged!). That's the difference between a ilvl 215 guy with 2k RIO score and ilvl 225 with 1.2k RIO... i'd always pick the 2k guy because he usually doesnt mess up mechanics.

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiekyerbooty View Post
    I don't really enjoy mythic plus.... right now I'm 210 just from raiding with my very casual guild... 6 hours a week, 8/10 heroic

    Now though I only have 2 or 3 slots below 213.... we'll be getting 220's from generals and sire over the next month....

    I look forward to next week's raid.... even though the drop rates suck, I don't look forward to the vault, because it has pretty much sucked for me... just this week, my 2 213 items were the only two cloth belts in CN, of which I already had both

    So now I kinda feel forced to do mythics to progress between now and 9.1.... I don't really " need " the gear so to speak... I am not a burden to my raid team...

    It's just that who the hell wants to stagnate for 3 months waiting for 9.1 to come out ???

    This upgrade system is stupid, it is obvious Blizz is trying to funnel their players into mythics... which only serves the boosters and causes resentment in players that don't really want to grind mythic dungeons

    I get it... they want to create an E-sport out of mythics and pvp... but, you can have other system upgrades too, that don't simply cater to pvp and mythic grinders
    technically this depends on how many people in team also have this point of view.

    for example if 80% of people push m+ weekly and get 220-226 gear while 20 % do nothing then after 2-3 months sadly ... yes you are huge burden to your team due to how gear scales (7-10 itlv difference in gear is huuuuuge this expansion )

    but hey if you guild accepts that more power to you !

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    technically this depends on how many people in team also have this point of view.

    for example if 80% of people push m+ weekly and get 220-226 gear while 20 % do nothing then after 2-3 months sadly ... yes you are huge burden to your team due to how gear scales (7-10 itlv difference in gear is huuuuuge this expansion )

    but hey if you guild accepts that more power to you !
    I said I didn't enjoy mythics, I didn't say that I haven't done any...who could resist doing some just for that M+ charity gear in the great vault ?

    I think it would be obvious if I were a burden to my team, I don't die very often and the meters look good

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    You can blame mythic plus for that and the fact that people eat it up when it's a garbage design that shits all over actual RPG design. The guy above got infracted for whatever but he's 100% right. M+ is cancer and it makes the community that much more of a toxic cesspit.
    M+ is the best thing Blizzard has added to WoW in my opinion:
    1. Bite-sized competive content which fits the lifestyle of today
    2. Lesser group size which fits the lifestyle of today
    3. In-built variation with affixes
    4. A well functioning ranking system (not made by Blizzard)
    5. The smaller group size makes the contribution of each person more important, which makes it more fun and challenging.

    I can understand the frustration of some players about M+.
    If someone before were used to be able to hide in a bigger raidsize and were used to be carried through content then the smaller group-size doesn't allow you that any more.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    M+ is the best thing Blizzard has added to WoW in my opinion:
    1. Bite-sized competive content which fits the lifestyle of today
    2. Lesser group size which fits the lifestyle of today
    3. In-built variation with affixes
    4. A well functioning ranking system (not made by Blizzard)
    5. The smaller group size makes the contribution of each person more important, which makes it more fun and challenging.

    I can understand the frustration of some players about M+.
    If someone before were used to be able to hide in a bigger raidsize and were used to be carried through content then the smaller group-size doesn't allow you that any more.
    I like the concept of m+ as well. It reminds me of Zulaman mount runs back in TBC - it was a great experience! The timer makes sure that everyone is concentrated and the group is working according to the plan. It's such a great feeling when you flawlessly and efficiently go from pull to pull.

    At the same time it wasn't really a competitive experience to me and I don't really need high keys for that. I would prefer to keep wiping on +10 with a group of friends rather than do clean +15 with randoms once a week.
    I have enough of EA ruining great franchises and studios, forcing DRM and Origin on their games, releasing incomplete games only to sell day-1 DLCs or spill dozens of DLCs, and then saying it, and microtransactions, is what players want, stopping players from giving EA games poor reviews, as well as deflecting complaints with cheap PR tricks.

    I'm not going to buy any game by EA as long as they continue those practices.

  20. #340
    I never enjoyed Mythic+, it just makes me not want to play the game, because i don't have much fun.

    I enjoyed more the BC-LK systems, and i did pandaria and WoD challenge modes, but just because i liked the rewards (And i did enjoy it, because i was pursuing something i really wanted that trascended in the game, over seasonal loot).

    But i can be mainly because i don't enjoy how classes work eversince Legion, it's never been the same since then to me.

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