This expansion showcased how people do not enjoy m+ at all

[cozzri]

I like the concept of m+ as well. It reminds me of Zulaman mount runs back in TBC - it was a great experience! The timer makes sure that everyone is concentrated and the group is working according to the plan. It's such a great feeling when you flawlessly and efficiently go from pull to pull.

At the same time it wasn't really a competitive experience to me and I don't really need high keys for that. I would prefer to keep wiping on +10 with a group of friends rather than do clean +15 with randoms once a week.

M+ sure would be a lot more fun if it had rewards for beating the timer like mounts, or cool transmog items like challenge modes in MoP/WoD. Honestly, I would prefer challenge mode to come back, the community around that dungeon mode was far better than the toxic BS we have with M+.

[justandulas]

It’s unfortunate that it’s become such a focal point of WoW, because it really emphasizes that wow today is more Diablo 3 than WoW-vanilla. It has more in common than Diablo 3 today than its everquest roots.

It also contributes to the feeling of everything now being seasonal, like Diablo 3. You can come and go between seasons and be equal to everyone overnight practically. There’s no progression ladder of needing to beat raid A to get to B, B to C, etc.... it’s more of a lobby Diablo mmo arpg today than an mmo RPG

And every patch the WoW team trends more towards seasonal Diablo 3 inspired content and further away from the true essence of WoW and rpgs

[Tiradon]

M+ sure would be a lot more fun if it had rewards for beating the timer like mounts, or cool transmog items like challenge modes in MoP/WoD. Honestly, I would prefer challenge mode to come back, the community around that dungeon mode was far better than the toxic BS we have with M+.

I really miss the Challenge Mode sets.

[mysticx]

SL has more different characters with a R.io score than the most popular M+ season in Legion, so the premise of this topic is wilfully dishonest.

Maybe R.io just got way more popular since Legion, not M+...

[Shiekyerbooty]

Maybe R.io just got way more popular since Legion, not M+...

I doubt that many people would be doing mythics if it wasn't the loot pinata of SL

[Barzotti]

I doubt that many people would be doing mythics if it wasn't the loot pinata of SL

Legion's M+ was more rewarding than SL M+ (one more item, titanforge, possibility to drop legendaries, artifact power).

[Shiekyerbooty]

Legion's M+ was more rewarding than SL M+ (one more item, titanforge, possibility to drop legendaries, artifact power).

I dunno... maybe there were more pieces, but were they as strong ?

Doing a +5 HoA grants us a 210 ilvl in the vault.... c'mon man... that's way too strong for that level of content... +5 HoA isn't much different from normal WoD heroics

[Barzotti]

I dunno... maybe there were more pieces, but were they as strong ?

Doing a +5 HoA grants us a 210 ilvl in the vault.... c'mon man... that's way too strong for that level of content... +5 HoA isn't much different from normal WoD heroics

Legion M+ (to get the highest reward in the cache) was piss easy compared to SL M+ (hello arcane torrent and aoe silence) and the reward structure was more generous than in SL.

The main difference is that you had to raid in Legion to get the tier sets and that M+ complemented the raids. While in BfA and SL, M+ can be a totally viable and alternative gearing path.

[Tiradon]

Legion M+ was piss easy compared to SL M+ and the reward structure was more generous than in SL.

I liked the one Mythic+ chest reward.. Made things simpler. They only had to fix the whole repetitive gear dropping and would be fine by me.. Now I'm feeling forced to do 10/10 to maximize my chance because you know, two options is still frustrating because it's always repetitive stuff

[Barzotti]

I liked the one Mythic+ chest reward.. Made things simpler. They only had to fix the whole repetitive gear dropping and would be fine by me.. Now I'm feeling forced to do 10/10 to maximize my chance because you know, two options is still frustrating because it's always repetitive stuff

I don't get it. You preferred when you didn't have a choice?

[Belloc]

They're right though. If content is only played because of the reward, then that content is shit. If it is played even if it gives no rewards, then it is good. That's kinda how most games work; games that rely on internal rewards are pretty rare in general.

You just described raids, PvP, dungeons, M+, Torghast, and basically every other popular content in WoW's history.

Tell that to any competitive multiplayer game. It's true for story driven games, but most games can be played without rewards at all.

How many popular modern competitive multiplayer games can you name that don't offer rewards for participation? Not that I necessarily disagree with your sentiment, but I don't think you've got a realistic handle on what modern competitive games are like, these days.

[Argorwal]

I don't get it. You preferred when you didn't have a choice?

Some people just like the feeling of “I did everything I could” when they finish for the week.

And preferably the list of things to do to reach that feeling is small.

Aka raid logging being popular to some people.

[Akibaboy]

But that they enjoy the loot it gives.

In BfA you could reach Mythic level of gear by just doing a weekly +15. People were so used to easy gearing like that, that they cry about it this expansion.
People do not enjoy m+ for the content it brings, they solely enjoy to do it because of the loot it gives.

Only a small minority seems to enjoy m+ so much, the rest only cares about the gear.
So many people crying that the gear isn't a high enough ilvl and that it's not often dropped.

I thought that people enjoyed this content regardless? I thought m+ was fun? What happened?

I really enjoy doing M+ with an organized group of friends that communicate and have a common goal. I run about 5-7 a week with them.

I won't touch M+ with randoms because it's not meant for the free-for-all, "I'm the most important look at my damage" mentality unless you're doing keys well below your actual ability. These people won't value the addition of a DPS throwing in a well timed stun, debuffing enemy mobs, and other moments of utility and synergy that can actually determine success... they only look at a meters and then complain and blame everyone else if things get rough.

[Lahis]

you unlock vault slots from raid too...

Raid slots are fucking useless. If your roster isn't exactly 20 people, you most likely will have only one slot open.

If your guild even bothers to reclear at this point.

[LordVargK]

You just described raids, PvP, dungeons, M+, Torghast, and basically every other popular content in WoW's history.

I honestly feel sad for you that you think about the game that way.
I run raids because I like the challenge with my guild. We are not the best, that's why we still progress in heroic. But each boss killed after dozends of wipes feels like an accomplishment, no matter the loot. WoW for me is more than loot; loot just serves as a barrier to content.

How many popular modern competitive multiplayer games can you name that don't offer rewards for participation? Not that I necessarily disagree with your sentiment, but I don't think you've got a realistic handle on what modern competitive games are like, these days.

I mean, League of Legends I guess? Fortnite? CSGO? You don't really get anything for winning, except maybe insignificant amounts of ingame currency, but those are really just trace amounts, nobody plays those for that reward.

[Exkrementor]

Everything stands and falls with class design. Shadowlands classes are not that fun so its not fun to spend 40 minutes in a dungeon with a boring class and not even get loot out of it.

No fun + no rewards = dead content.

[erifwodahs]

Raid slots are fucking useless. If your roster isn't exactly 20 people, you most likely will have only one slot open.

If your guild even bothers to reclear at this point.

Well, doing 1 +14 is not that hard for second option. And it's easier than M+ players pugging mythic for extra slots

[Tuhokoura]

But that they enjoy the loot it gives.

In BfA you could reach Mythic level of gear by just doing a weekly +15. People were so used to easy gearing like that, that they cry about it this expansion.
People do not enjoy m+ for the content it brings, they solely enjoy to do it because of the loot it gives.

Only a small minority seems to enjoy m+ so much, the rest only cares about the gear.
So many people crying that the gear isn't a high enough ilvl and that it's not often dropped.

I thought that people enjoyed this content regardless? I thought m+ was fun? What happened?

I truly enjoyed Challenge mode dungeons in MoP, the predecessor of Mythic+. Those rewards are actually more relevant today than any of the M+ rewards that came after that, except current tier ofc. Either have Challenge mode or just Mythic and scrap whole + nonsense.

[Glorious Leader]

I don't get it. You preferred when you didn't have a choice?

Choice! let me tell you about a little thing called the pvp vendors...

[dcc626]

Choice! let me tell you about a little thing called the pvp vendors...

pvp is a system where they give you no gear for doing it and instead give you vendors. vendors that while you are working towards builsing up your conquest with a weekly cap, you cannot buy pieces quickly for upgrades.

m+ is a system that gives gear rewards for completion and now lets you use valor to upgrade.


they will not give vendors to buy the gear that drops from the dungeons. it wont happen.

no matter how much you stamp your feet and yell, its not going to happen.