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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarba View Post
    I never liked timed content, particulary in a rpg. M+ is something that pushed me out of the game.
    I never had problem with wiping->explaining->downing. But that's not a m+ thing.
    M+ did the exact same thing for me. Timed content just completely ruins the experience and makes it toxic. I used to enjoy doing dungeons in older expansions between raiding with my friends but once Legion came around I had to do this time trial stuff to keep up in gear. I was already playing less, mostly just raiding as an alternate, and when M+ came around and I had to start doing that to feel like I deserved a raid spot, I called it quits.

    I personally feel that M+ with timers is the most damaging content added to the game. You already had "problems" in older expansions with gogogo pugs but now this gave them a reason to be "correct". So now everything is all about going as absolutely fast as possible and using the most annoying crap all to skip one add that will pat into the back of the group.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Roundhound View Post
    M+ did the exact same thing for me. Timed content just completely ruins the experience and makes it toxic. I used to enjoy doing dungeons in older expansions between raiding with my friends but once Legion came around I had to do this time trial stuff to keep up in gear. I was already playing less, mostly just raiding as an alternate, and when M+ came around and I had to start doing that to feel like I deserved a raid spot, I called it quits.

    I personally feel that M+ with timers is the most damaging content added to the game. You already had "problems" in older expansions with gogogo pugs but now this gave them a reason to be "correct". So now everything is all about going as absolutely fast as possible and using the most annoying crap all to skip one add that will pat into the back of the group.
    So just because you are unable to do or don't enjoy a particular aspect of WoW then it is toxic?

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    So just because you are unable to do or don't enjoy a particular aspect of WoW then it is toxic?
    This is exactly what I mean. The community has gone downhill since M+. I don't enjoy M+ because I hate the group dynamic which is often toxic. So I quit.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Roundhound View Post
    This is exactly what I mean. The community has gone downhill since M+. I don't enjoy M+ because I hate the group dynamic which is often toxic. So I quit.
    Fair enough. I have the opposite experience with M+ as it has become easier to find and play with competitive people, which has made the game far less toxic for me.

  5. #105
    I love mythic plus. I really enjoy the challenge that higher keys bring. I'm quite the opposite to most peoples approach to it too, to be honest. I think that the game shouldn't be split into PvE and PVP, but should instead be split into raids, player versus player and mythic plus. I think that if people want to, they should be able to get the same item level from mythic raiding by doing high keys.

    By that, I don't mean doing 15s and getting 226 item level. I mean doing 20's in time for better gear. It's a bit bizarre to me how you can buy gladiator with gold or IRL money and it has the item level it does, whereas you'd be pretty hard pressed to find people selling timed 20s consistently.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by yuze View Post
    By a stroke of luck I got invited to a key well above my own, this was before I knew about the weakaura so I would randomly join keys, I was like 700 at the time while the others were 1200 and it was the smoothest, most sensual run I ever had - then I understood the power of rio and focused on improving my score so I could play with people of that caliber. I haven't had the same luck unfortunately I'm playing Ret Pala which isn't meta at all and very average but that one run prooved to me that I understood the mechanics and pulled my own weight respectably. In short: very fun. As for the rest? MEH.
    Yup. Its hard as a solo melee pugger but once you get a little higher score and can get into the good groups, its so much better. I dread doing +9s on my alt more than I do 14-15s on main. Only hard part is getting that invite or pushing your own key and hoping no one bricks it

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Raava View Post
    I love mythic plus. I really enjoy the challenge that higher keys bring. I'm quite the opposite to most peoples approach to it too, to be honest. I think that the game shouldn't be split into PvE and PVP, but should instead be split into raids, player versus player and mythic plus. I think that if people want to, they should be able to get the same item level from mythic raiding by doing high keys.

    By that, I don't mean doing 15s and getting 226 item level. I mean doing 20's in time for better gear. It's a bit bizarre to me how you can buy gladiator with gold or IRL money and it has the item level it does, whereas you'd be pretty hard pressed to find people selling timed 20s consistently.
    That’s just a fundamental aspect of infinite scaling. At some point it just becomes so hard it’s barely achievable even with optimizing everything.

    It’s more about where the line is drawn. Right now it’s +15 (really +14) for 226 gear from mythic+ vs 2100 rating. In BFA it was 2400 rating for mythic level gear and the player base seemed to think that was too high. Is 2100 too low? Is +14 to low?

    How does it compare with raiding and its range of difficulties per boss where shriekwing and sludge fist both drop 226 and are worlds apart in difficulty?

    We can go around in circles on this forever.

  8. #108
    I am Murloc! Geisl's Avatar
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    I would say that WoW's inherent design is that it's rewards-based aka majority of players do content because of the rewards. Blizzard has designed their game to be this way, to attract that sort of audience.

    I wouldn't then call it a player issue, but a blizzard design issue. Majority of their players don't play WoW just because content is fun, majority of their players play the content because of the rewards obtained from them.

    Blizzard throughout the years on various game design discussions have shared these same sentiments, that content needs appropriate rewards in order for players to do them and they have tweaked rewards systems if not enough players would do certain content (think Azerite Power from islands in BFA).

  9. #109
    M+ could have been fun if they didn't slap a timer on it. They were so close to creating something fun and instead it just became this stressful and toxic mess.

  10. #110
    Immortal TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    People would enjoy M+ if it was the Legion-era AoEfest instead of BfA metaslavery or SL brickwall simulator
    Nope, some of us have never liked M+. I've never enjoyed timed-content in WoW, be it M+ or CMs. The timer just ruins any chance of me being able to enjoy the content.

    Racing against a clock is something I can only enjoy in single-player games, in any cooperative multiplayer environment it just becomes a reason for me to get angry at other players.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    If you want to be disgusted, next time you kiss someone remember you've got your mouth on the end of a tube which has shit at the other end, held back by a couple of valves.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    snip
    Alas, another absurd thread with no basis whatsoever! Thanks MMOC, you never fail.

    Some people love M+ and do it regardless of the rewards (That's why are are countless runs higher than 14 -> breakpoint for max rewards atm)
    Some people hate M+ and do it for rewards.

    It's almost as if different people have different likes and dislikes.

    Stop making asinine assumptions, especially ones taken out of your ass.

    Me? I loved Challenge Modes (although they had way less replayability) and i love Mythic+, regardless of the rewards.

  12. #112
    I think you are exaggerating. There are in fact a lot of people that like Mythic+. That is why it's one of the 3 pillars of the game. But, it was missing progression outside the random weekly chest.

    So, it was a legitimate criticism and it is being rightfully fixed.

    Though, yes, many people only care about the gear ilvl. The changes made for mythic+ to drop lower ilvl were cause it was so popular it was making raids obsolete. So, they needed to balance it.

  13. #113
    I do like m+ very much. But my issue currently is that to get into groups for higher level keys I need better gear. And while heroic raid drops ilvl 213 gear the level 10 m+ drops only ilvl 203.

    But I guess the source of that problem is that I can't find a stable group to run m+, so I run with pugs most of the time. If i manage to find a stable group then gear will matter less
    I have enough of EA ruining great franchises and studios, forcing DRM and Origin on their games, releasing incomplete games only to sell day-1 DLCs or spill dozens of DLCs, and then saying it, and microtransactions, is what players want, stopping players from giving EA games poor reviews, as well as deflecting complaints with cheap PR tricks.

    I'm not going to buy any game by EA as long as they continue those practices.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Roundhound View Post
    Timed content just completely ruins the experience and makes it toxic.
    I kinda agree with this. I'm not sure how M+ looks without the timer, but timed PVE content just feels so antithetical to why I play this type of game in the first place. It should feel like more of a challenge-at-your-own-pace. Someone leaves - run is dead. Someone goes dc - timer is fucked. Gogogogo - anxiety and toxicity triples. Most of the dungeon strat isn't even playing your class it's what route do we have to take. Just feels odd and not like the dungeons of old. Tactically dishing out CC, taking a mana break, chatting and discussing next pull, then executing that. Over and over until you got to the end of the dungeon.

    Let M+ just dial up the numbers and stuff, but let people take a break during the dungeon to piss or let out their dog. Timer just kills my interest completely.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    But that they enjoy the loot it gives.

    In BfA you could reach Mythic level of gear by just doing a weekly +15. People were so used to easy gearing like that, that they cry about it this expansion.
    People do not enjoy m+ for the content it brings, they solely enjoy to do it because of the loot it gives.

    Only a small minority seems to enjoy m+ so much, the rest only cares about the gear.
    So many people crying that the gear isn't a high enough ilvl and that it's not often dropped.

    I thought that people enjoyed this content regardless? I thought m+ was fun? What happened?
    People only play this game for gear. Millions also used to play for the in-game community. Blizzard destroyed the in-game communities long long ago. That's why this game once had 11 million and now has like 3 million.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  16. #116
    I think the actual problem is that the content is designed to be played with friends, and most people don't play with friends. This is the same problem raiding has always had. Most of the grouped content in the entire game has.

  17. #117
    The Lightbringer msdos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmocfd1b0ab5a3 View Post
    I don't enjoy them on my main but thats because it's damage dealer. DPS role is extremely boring in m+ and I mostly enjoy tanking and especially healing them on my alts.

    DPS is just brainlessy following tank and interrupting/CC certain mobs and blast your dps cooldowns. On my tank I choose the tempo and route and on healer it's fun to correct people's small mistakes by keeping them alive and overall pushing my healing capability to limit if run's tempo is high.
    Big agree, having gone from tank in Legion to melee dps in BFA. It only got worse as a melee from there, like they just systematically keep making the raids harder and harder for melee until the point where you wanted to reroll. Now they do it in M+ as well with affixes. I don't think adding Horrific Visions mechanics that exclusively screw over melee is fun. Visions weren't fun, that isn't fun.
    Yes, being challenged is fun, but running an obstacle course without the tools to do it is just idiotic and in this case, pointless.

    Not fun, not learning anything, not progressing = stupidity. (There's no point going back tanking because tanks need massive god damn buffs just to function these days, another idiotic happening going on)

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    Fair enough. I have the opposite experience with M+ as it has become easier to find and play with competitive people, which has made the game far less toxic for me.
    You mean rio? Only way your post makes any sense.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  19. #119
    The Insane Dug's Avatar
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    I'll echo others the time limit is really lame and creates toxicity... just make the mobs tougher, dish out more mechanics that need to be dealt with, more use of CC etc.

  20. #120
    I love M+ but SL dungeons seem a lot more complex than BFA dungeons. There is a lot of trash that have mechanics more complicated than BFA trash. A lot of them were outright over tuned and I think a couple could use more adjustments. I think the combo of them being more difficult and being less rewarding is what has made M+ in SL a lot less fun than Legion or BFA M+.

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