This expansion showcased how people do not enjoy m+ at all

[Coldkil]

I love M+ because I love healing but unfortunately there is a HUGE difference based on doing it in pug or in a fixed group. 1-2 times on 10 I manage to do it with other 2-3 guildies (we just pick 1-2 random dps) and it feels sooo much better even the rare times we don’t time them.

I have basically pugged everything M+ related excluding a handful of runs because of the occasional "i'm doing a X, wanna come?". I'm nearing KSM, trying to get some 14s done and then start tacking the 15s. It's annoying but doable, albeit slow. In the other side, it's compensated by the fact that people is more geared over time and got some more knowledge overall.

I don't hate M+, but i also don't like them. I find them boring and stupid, it's always the same thing just with inflated numbers. I do them because of gear, and once i got the KSM, i'm gonna stop at 15s because i just want the items, i have less than zero interest in pumping a score that doesn't give me anything worth in return.

[Tiradon]

I enjoy M+ in a group with friends, but it's a terrible experience on higher keys with random pugs.

I'm currently sitting at 1.4k RIO and we did some 16+ and 17+ just for fun but I would never attempt anything above a +15 with just pugs, despite there being good players it just takes a lot of time to find a decent setup and combos.

[ashblond]

M+ is dead.

[Greyvax]

If you took away gear or any reward (cosmetic, etc..), there would be literally ZERO people doing the content.

[The Butt Witch]

I would enjoy M+ if it was easier to get into and I didn't have to pass several filters in order to be accepted in the group.

This game is just becoming more and more elitist, and frankly I just cba jumping through hoops each week to even get into a group.

[Orwell7]

As someone who did all +15's(plus more) in time on three different characters in bfa and havent done it yet(and honestly just burned out on it now) this is my experience:

In bfa everyone easily had the required dps needed to be able to survive a few mistakes and still do +15's in time.

Today with +15's in time is harder meaning the specs well suited for it have a MUCH easier time getting it done. That coupled with the fact that balance now is jsut dumpster level makes it unappealing to me.

I did them on time in bfa on a blood dk, vengeance dh and a rogue(different specs). This time i dont want to tank because the meta just fucking sucks. I really dont enjoy the kiting meta and i've yet to meet any other tank who does.

Balance Druids, firemages and MM hunters are so far ahead of the pack when it comes to damage(still the most important aspect of +15's) that i just cba. I literally just cba trying to learn everything about the dungeons and progress steadily through it when my grey locks balance druid friend can do almost 30k dps on the first boss in mists for his first free +15 key.

This x1000.
Blizzard just cannot get the concept that players are basically playing FOR FUN. This is not Darkest Dungeon or Factorio or Dead Cells or whatever torturing "its expected for you to suck for thousands of hours" it's called.

It's the risk vs. reward ratio that needs to be in check. When Blizzard nails it, no matter the content drought, players will love it (ICC anyone? SoO with timeless isle?)
This time it feels like we are being "punished" for something.
Also Blizzard giving the necessary tools to make an M+ run easier to only a handful of specs is just ridiculous.
A bonus point for them for making rogues/shroud not necessary tho.

[Spike`]

I love M+ but i don't like Shadowlands dungeons and that makes me don't want to play it

The feeling playing them is not there, its like the zones of Shadowlands

The only ones that i enjoyed doing was Theater of Pain, Halls of Atonement and Sanguine Depths, the rest? a total meh

[prwraith]

I hate M+ with a burning passion. I hate that for the first month or two of the raid you had to do M+ to unlock Mythic raid level rewards.

[Vilendor]

It made me quit the whole game when we ran a +14 with a mage pug and i realized im just a burden on my friends with my feral druid and even if i do everything perfectly i'll be nowhere near to do +15 runs without those 4 people helping me.

Also running the same dungeons for 1-2 month is fine, but for 2 years? Naaaah, no way.

[czarek]

I do like m+ but only with friends. Goin in PUGs is just horrible experience and no fun. Beside this reward system is a piece of shit. Valors would fix it a bit but still its bad. The idea of M+ was to seprate radings and 5 mans. But hello if ur a raider u had to do m+ to boost ur gear up vice versa best weapons and trinks drops from RAIDs >< Im not a raider anymore and thats penalty if i do not raid.

[justandulas]

I dislike m+, both as content and because of the social implications it brings

Example: I am a mythic raid MT who does not want to do m+. It then causes issues with my guildies of 5+ years because the dps need tanks for m+ and I’d rather never step foot into one. This causes building resentment from m+ players to players who’d rather not play m+. It’s too mandatory for high end players and that’s a problem for people who dislike the content

[dacoolist]

I dislike m+, both as content and because of the social implications it brings

Example: I am a mythic raid MT who does not want to do m+. It then causes issues with my guildies of 5+ years because the dps need tanks for m+ and I’d rather never step foot into one. This causes building resentment from m+ players to players who’d rather not play m+. It’s too mandatory for high end players and that’s a problem for people who dislike the content

If you're a mythicc tank getting 226 and even 233 off the last two boss's.. why would it be required to do M+?

I'm actually curious on this one because the numbers don't add up

[Ilookfly]

Doing 15s for guildies is a very low bar.

[justandulas]

If you're a mythicc tank getting 226 and even 233 off the last two boss's.. why would it be required to do M+?

I'm actually curious on this one because the numbers don't add up

I DON'T need it. that's kind of the point. I don't need it, and even if i did, i don't enjoy the content and would prefer to just raid log when not raiding. The outside of raid content doesn't mean anything to me this expac personally.

the problem is that the DPS and healers think the tank SHOULD be doing M+ for guildies in need, and i don't feel like i should have to do content i don't want to do just to enjoy content i do enjoy.

It creates a social problem because raid tanks are expected to help guildies with M+ when they need it, and i won't bother with M+

[vashe9]

and what you do with better gear if you dont do harder m+ or raids ? If you don't mytic raid, then 226 loot is irrelevant

- - - Updated - - -

I DON'T need it. that's kind of the point. I don't need it, and even if i did, i don't enjoy the content and would prefer to just raid log when not raiding. The outside of raid content doesn't mean anything to me this expac personally.

the problem is that the DPS and healers think the tank SHOULD be doing M+ for guildies in need, and i don't feel like i should have to do content i don't want to do just to enjoy content i do enjoy.

It creates a social problem because raid tanks are expected to help guildies with M+ when they need it, and i won't bother with M+

Mm+ and raid are tied, if you suck in mm+ you probably suck in raids too...

[Sinx]

If you took away gear or any reward (cosmetic, etc..), there would be literally ZERO people doing the content.

Same goes for raids, so the point is mute. The whole MMORPG concept evolves around gear and progressing your character, so naturally any activity that doesn't provide it will only attract a very small portion of the playerbase. Challenge mode, Island Expeditions and Warfronts all failed for that very reason as well. The occasional cosmetic reward, pet or dull mount isn't sufficient to attract the masses to content. No one would've bothered with Torghast either if it wasn't the only way to craft legendary items (or get a mount that works in the Maw in the case of twisting corridors).

[Lahis]

If you're a mythicc tank getting 226 and even 233 off the last two boss's.. why would it be required to do M+?

I'm actually curious on this one because the numbers don't add up

The loot droprate in raids is absolute dogshit. Doing M+ is required to get the upgrade options from Vault. And now with the Valor Upgrades, it is even more mandatory to farm M+

[Simple Rick]

I don't know if mythics are "bad" but they have a shelf life like all content. Blizzard is just kind of slow to realize that.

[dacoolist]

I DON'T need it. that's kind of the point. I don't need it, and even if i did, i don't enjoy the content and would prefer to just raid log when not raiding. The outside of raid content doesn't mean anything to me this expac personally.

the problem is that the DPS and healers think the tank SHOULD be doing M+ for guildies in need, and i don't feel like i should have to do content i don't want to do just to enjoy content i do enjoy.

It creates a social problem because raid tanks are expected to help guildies with M+ when they need it, and i won't bother with M+

I mean technically you don't have to do m+, if you bring it for raid and that's all - the guild should be able to pug a tank.

- - - Updated - - -

The loot droprate in raids is absolute dogshit. Doing M+ is required to get the upgrade options from Vault. And now with the Valor Upgrades, it is even more mandatory to farm M+

True on low geared toons you would need to get KSM and upgrade to 220, again TODAY starting of course with the new patch

[chiddie]

I have basically pugged everything M+ related excluding a handful of runs because of the occasional "i'm doing a X, wanna come?". I'm nearing KSM, trying to get some 14s done and then start tacking the 15s. It's annoying but doable, albeit slow. In the other side, it's compensated by the fact that people is more geared over time and got some more knowledge overall.

I don't hate M+, but i also don't like them. I find them boring and stupid, it's always the same thing just with inflated numbers. I do them because of gear, and once i got the KSM, i'm gonna stop at 15s because i just want the items, i have less than zero interest in pumping a score that doesn't give me anything worth in return.

Ye, I’ll also stop going above 15 if and once I get KSM, no interest in going further, I am a casual player and getting KSM would be “mythic” enough for me.

I just wanted to point out that doing them with a fixed group is a totally different experience, funnier and less stressing.