1. #1041
    I am Murloc! Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    I don't really agree. As a player you can rightfully say that a system or a playstyle is not what you do best. As a coach you cannot under any circumstances argue that a player doesn't fit your system. You are the coach ffs, make it work for the players you have.

    Sean McVay has had to work with Jared Goff, and he still made it work. There's countless examples of good coaches making it work with players that are not perfect.

    Sam Darnold is probably not transcended, but he's now shown he can win you games if you tailor to him, just like Goff did.

    Gase is just bad.
    "I don't agree, but let me explain what you said in more words."

    Nothing you said actually contradicts my point, so I don't really get why you replied.
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  2. #1042
    It isn't even just 2 QBs that improved after getting away from Gase. Multiple teams have won championships the year after replacing him.

    Not sure what happened after he left the Bears, they just might be cursed.

  3. #1043
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Yeah and with Gase this isn't a one-time thing, it's not "Well Teddy just wasn't a good fit for Carolina but was for Denver."

    This is two QBs at two different coaching stops now that look like they finally figured out the NFL after getting away from him. That's not just bad fits, that's bad coaching.
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  4. #1044
    I am Murloc! Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Yeah and with Gase this isn't a one-time thing, it's not "Well Teddy just wasn't a good fit for Carolina but was for Denver."

    This is two QBs at two different coaching stops now that look like they finally figured out the NFL after getting away from him. That's not just bad fits, that's bad coaching.
    IMO, to judge bad coaching, you would actually have to see the coaching (or lack there of). You are assuming bad coaching based on a pattern that can be explained by poor fit.

    But, bad coaching is a blanket term covering a lot. Bad coaching can be not recognizing your system doesn't fit the players you have an adjusting.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  5. #1045
    Legendary! Vetali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    IMO, to judge bad coaching, you would actually have to see the coaching (or lack there of). You are assuming bad coaching based on a pattern that can be explained by poor fit.

    But, bad coaching is a blanket term covering a lot. Bad coaching can be not recognizing your system doesn't fit the players you have an adjusting.


    Looks like pretty bad coaching to me.

  6. #1046
    I am Murloc! Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetali View Post


    Looks like pretty bad coaching to me.
    And Bill Belichick was 36-44 with the Browns ... would you say Bill Belichick was a bad coach when coaching the Browns?

    Things are as simple as W-L records. It would make things easier if it was the case.

    Gase maybe a bad coach, or his coaching system isn't good for in the NFL, etc
    There are many factors and possibilities.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  7. #1047
    Legendary! Vetali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    And Bill Belichick was 36-44 with the Browns ... would you say Bill Belichick was a bad coach when coaching the Browns?

    Things are as simple as W-L records. It would make things easier if it was the case.

    Gase maybe a bad coach, or his coaching system isn't good for in the NFL, etc
    There are many factors and possibilities.
    Aaand? He was fired.

    Its the NFL, not high school football. Coaches are graded by win/loss record. Nothing more or less.

  8. #1048
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    And Bill Belichick was 36-44 with the Browns ... would you say Bill Belichick was a bad coach when coaching the Browns?

    Things are as simple as W-L records. It would make things easier if it was the case.

    Gase maybe a bad coach, or his coaching system isn't good for in the NFL, etc
    There are many factors and possibilities.
    Tom Brady’s trainer would…

  9. #1049
    The Lightbringer ProphetFlume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    And Bill Belichick was 36-44 with the Browns ... would you say Bill Belichick was a bad coach when coaching the Browns?

    Things are as simple as W-L records. It would make things easier if it was the case.

    Gase maybe a bad coach, or his coaching system isn't good for in the NFL, etc
    There are many factors and possibilities.
    And which do you believe?
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  10. #1050
    Coming from a Phins fan, Gase is trash. Garbo. Dumpster fire bad.

    Speaking of my phins, last weeks shellacking sucked and I expect more of the same sadly vs raiders. Our OLine is paper.

  11. #1051
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Can you believe Adam Gase is going to go 2-0 on QBs leaving him and going on to be passable starters?
    no one believes this

  12. #1052
    I am Murloc! Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetali View Post
    Aaand? He was fired.

    Its the NFL, not high school football. Coaches are graded by win/loss record. Nothing more or less.
    That's not entirely true and you know it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetFlume View Post
    And which do you believe?
    Nothing personally.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  13. #1053
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    IMO, to judge bad coaching, you would actually have to see the coaching (or lack there of). You are assuming bad coaching based on a pattern that can be explained by poor fit.

    But, bad coaching is a blanket term covering a lot. Bad coaching can be not recognizing your system doesn't fit the players you have an adjusting.
    There's more than two examples, though.

    There's also Tannehil, Parker, Gesicki, Kenyan Drake, Robby Anderson, Landry, and pretty much any offensive player on the Dolphin's under Gase including linemen. Dude always misuses the talent he has, has poor schemes, and players have shown much better performance and execution once he's no longer their coach (whether it's with the same team because he was fired or because they left to play somewhere else).

    And yes, part of being a coach is finding players who either fit your scheme or adjusting your scheme to fit the players you have. He's shown an inability to do either one over multiple years. At that point you push aside the "players were a poor fit" excuse for his results. Hell, the best season he helped oversee was when we was the offensive coordinator for the Broncos in 2013. Manning had a record-breaking year, but it's freaking Peyton Manning in the final days of his career. I'd love to see you try and claim that Gase was the one responsible for that when he's shown an inability to repeat such success in multiple stints across 3 different teams since then.

  14. #1054
    I am Murloc! Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brubear View Post
    There's more than two examples, though.

    There's also Tannehil, Parker, Gesicki, Kenyan Drake, Robby Anderson, Landry, and pretty much any offensive player on the Dolphin's under Gase including linemen. Dude always misuses the talent he has, has poor schemes, and players have shown much better performance and execution once he's no longer their coach (whether it's with the same team because he was fired or because they left to play somewhere else).

    And yes, part of being a coach is finding players who either fit your scheme or adjusting your scheme to fit the players you have. He's shown an inability to do either one over multiple years. At that point you push aside the "players were a poor fit" excuse for his results. Hell, the best season he helped oversee was when we was the offensive coordinator for the Broncos in 2013. Manning had a record-breaking year, but it's freaking Peyton Manning in the final days of his career. I'd love to see you try and claim that Gase was the one responsible for that when he's shown an inability to repeat such success in multiple stints across 3 different teams since then.
    I am not saying he isn't a bad coach or that he is a good coach.
    I am saying that I don't really have enough to say he is a bad coach.

    These are two different stances.

    Please note: I don't consider incompetence the same as bad.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2021-09-25 at 06:45 PM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  15. #1055
    I don't think I have seen anyone defend Adam Gase before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brubear View Post
    Hell, the best season he helped oversee was when we was the offensive coordinator for the Broncos in 2013. Manning had a record-breaking year, but it's freaking Peyton Manning in the final days of his career. I'd love to see you try and claim that Gase was the one responsible for that when he's shown an inability to repeat such success in multiple stints across 3 different teams since then.
    Gase was mainly just OC in name only. Manning ran the offense.

  16. #1056
    Quote Originally Posted by Faltemer View Post
    I don't know if fan is the right word. Unwilling follower, indoctrinated during childhood is a better way to describe it.
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  17. #1057
    The Lightbringer ProphetFlume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grube View Post
    I don't think I have seen anyone defend Adam Gase before.
    He’s not really defending him, just playing devil’s advocate for the sake of it.
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  18. #1058
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    I am not saying he isn't a bad coach or that he is a good coach.
    I am saying that I don't really have enough to say he is a bad coach.

    These are two different stances.

    Please note: I don't consider incompetence the same as bad.
    There's not enough evidence that Adam Gase is a bad coach? Have you watched any team he's coached? I usually watch Dolphins (and Jets, and Patriots) game because I'm a Bills fan, and he was horrific. Ryan Tannehill looked okay before he got there, and has looked even better after leaving Gase. Inbetween? He looked like a train wreck. The Jets under Gase were.....horrific. Like, truly horror show stuff. That's a good 6 seasons of bad coaching illustrated by awful offenses, for a supposed offensive guru.

    Also I don't understand how you can say "incompetence isn't the same as bad." Unless you consider his incompetence an innocent ignorance of how to coach, which......I don't think could be possible, considering the years it usually takes to become a head coach in the NFL.

  19. #1059
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Its a completely pointless discussion trying to draw a distinction that doesn't exist.

    For example:

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Gase maybe a bad coach, or his coaching system isn't good for in the NFL, etc
    Apparently we aren't using the right criteria to judge an NFL coach in an NFL thread... but I figure with NFL thread discussion of an NFL coach that his failure to function in the NFL would mean he is a bad coach with all the context relevant to any discussion we could have here.
    /s

  20. #1060
    Scarab Lord Vestig3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grube View Post



    Gase was mainly just OC in name only. Manning ran the offense.
    Word!

    Manning decided pretty much all decisions on offense i doubt gase had much to do with it.
    - Vanilla was legitimately bad; we just didn't know any better at the time - SirCowDog


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