1. #1061
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    There's not enough evidence that Adam Gase is a bad coach? Have you watched any team he's coached? I usually watch Dolphins (and Jets, and Patriots) game because I'm a Bills fan, and he was horrific. Ryan Tannehill looked okay before he got there, and has looked even better after leaving Gase. Inbetween? He looked like a train wreck. The Jets under Gase were.....horrific. Like, truly horror show stuff. That's a good 6 seasons of bad coaching illustrated by awful offenses, for a supposed offensive guru.

    Also I don't understand how you can say "incompetence isn't the same as bad." Unless you consider his incompetence an innocent ignorance of how to coach, which......I don't think could be possible, considering the years it usually takes to become a head coach in the NFL.
    The issue is I can't tell if he is actually a bad coach or just incompetent.

    I don't consider incompetence as bad unless I know it is willful incompetence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    Its a completely pointless discussion trying to draw a distinction that doesn't exist.

    For example:



    Apparently we aren't using the right criteria to judge an NFL coach in an NFL thread... but I figure with NFL thread discussion of an NFL coach that his failure to function in the NFL would mean he is a bad coach with all the context relevant to any discussion we could have here.
    Yes, because the NFL is something that is an immovable beast that the rules and play style are the same now as they were pre-merger.

    And I love who you ignored the etc. And just because his SYSTEM is bad, doesn't mean HE is bad.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  2. #1062
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    The issue is I can't tell if he is actually a bad coach or just incompetent.

    I don't consider incompetence as bad unless I know it is willful incompetence.

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    Yes, because the NFL is something that is an immovable beast that the rules and play style are the same now as they were pre-merger.

    And I love who you ignored the etc. And just because his SYSTEM is bad, doesn't mean HE is bad.
    He’s had a long time to get over his incompetence. And since most rational people would say an incompetent coach is a bad coach… sure, he could magically become competent. You know what that does though? It makes him competent when he gets there. It doesn’t negate how bad he was before.

  3. #1063
    If he was competent......he'd be a good coach.

    Not only is competence and "quality of a coach" not mutually exclusive, I'd say they're positively correlated.

  4. #1064
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    He’s had a long time to get over his incompetence. And since most rational people would say an incompetent coach is a bad coach… sure, he could magically become competent. You know what that does though? It makes him competent when he gets there. It doesn’t negate how bad he was before.
    You make it sound like people can just cease being incompetent ... that's not the case.

    There are just some people that cannot learn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    If he was competent......he'd be a good coach.

    Not only is competence and "quality of a coach" not mutually exclusive, I'd say they're positively correlated.
    And my argument isn't they are exclusive.

    My argument incompetence ALONE isn't enough to judge a coach.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  5. #1065
    Incompetence is the hallmark of a bad coach. No one out here believes coaches are deliberately bad. They all think they've got it figured out - the ones that don't, are incompetent. Like, how do you define "bad" if it doesn't mean incompetence? There's all sorts of different techniques and philosophies of both offense and defense, so arguing that there's a technically "incorrect"/bad way of coaching seems fallacious at best.

    Unless you're Rick Dennison.

  6. #1066
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    You make it sound like people can just cease being incompetent ... that's not the case.

    There are just some people that cannot learn.

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    And my argument isn't they are exclusive.

    My argument incompetence ALONE isn't enough to judge a coach.
    If they aren’t competent they can’t be a good coach. It’s antithetical to the definition of the words.

  7. #1067
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    If they aren’t competent they can’t be a good coach. It’s antithetical to the definition of the words.
    And I am not saying incompetence coaches can be good coaches.
    I am saying just because someone is incompetent doesn't make them a bad coach.

    There is more than just good coach or bad coach. A bad coach to me has to be more than just incompetent just like a good coach has to be more than just competent.

    I don't know enough to say that Gase is any more than an incompetent coach. If that is a bad coach to you, fine, I honestly don't care. I have a problem if you tell me that I have to accept he is a bad coach because he meets your qualifications of one.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  8. #1068
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    And I am not saying incompetence coaches can be good coaches.
    I am saying just because someone is incompetent doesn't make them a bad coach.

    There is more than just good coach or bad coach. A bad coach to me has to be more than just incompetent just like a good coach has to be more than just competent.

    I don't know enough to say that Gase is any more than an incompetent coach. If that is a bad coach to you, fine, I honestly don't care. I have a problem if you tell me that I have to accept he is a bad coach because he meets your qualifications of one.
    Incompetent: not having the skill or ability to do the necessary job

    It’s not me, it’s the dictionary.

  9. #1069
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Incompetent: not having the skill or ability to do the necessary job

    It’s not me, it’s the dictionary.
    /facepalm

    Why do I ever bother attempting conversations with you? I always get annoyed at you not understanding basic concepts.

    We are judging the quality of a coach in the conversation. You are saying an incompetent coach is a bad coach, I am saying there is more than just competency that matters. We aren't arguing the definition of the word incompetent. We are arguing over a subjective judgment of the quality of a coach. You can't get from incompetent to bad without your personal opinion, it does not matter what the dictionary says.

    Again, if competency is all that matters to YOU to judge the quality of a coach, I don't care.
    I care that you are saying I have to accept your view as factual.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  10. #1070
    Legendary! Vetali's Avatar
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    ... anyway

    Sounds like the reason why La'el Collins got suspended is because he tried to bribe the collector. Not exactly skipping tests like originally stated.

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...test-collector

  11. #1071
    Quote Originally Posted by Vetali View Post
    Sounds like the reason why La'el Collins got suspended is because he tried to bribe the collector. Not exactly skipping tests like originally stated.

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...test-collector
    Prime example of someone who has way more money than brains. He fits in well on the Cowboys.

  12. #1072
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursus View Post
    Prime example of someone who has way more money than brains. He fits in well on the Cowboys.
    Wow ... that just get worse and worse.

    He got a 5 game suspension, the Union got it reduced to 2, he still appealed it and got "Nope, it should be 5."

    Sometimes you have to take what win you can get. Seriously, some fights are just not worth fighting.

    So, I have to agree with you.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  13. #1073
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetali View Post
    ... anyway

    Sounds like the reason why La'el Collins got suspended is because he tried to bribe the collector. Not exactly skipping tests like originally stated.

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...test-collector
    Yeah that was a fun story this morning. My favorite part was that they negotiated it down to 2 games but then his appeal brought it back up to 5.
    /s

  14. #1074
    Moderator Crissi's Avatar
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    yeah, I take it all back. La'el deserves what he got. geezus lol

  15. #1075
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    FOX guys in the van cracking me up, the Saints scored a TD and they put four points on the board for New England. What button do you hit that gives a team four points? lol
    /s

  16. #1076
    Mind if I roll need? xskarma's Avatar
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    Jesus. The whole message out of Patriots this week was "We have to stop Kamara", so what do they do? Let him run rampant from the 2nd drive onwards.

  17. #1077
    Steelers are probably hoping Roethlisberger retires mid-season with how he has been playing.

  18. #1078
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    FOX guys in the van cracking me up, the Saints scored a TD and they put four points on the board for New England. What button do you hit that gives a team four points? lol
    And then they changed it to 2 points for the Patriots.

    I have no idea what was going on with that
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  19. #1079
    Scarab Lord Vestig3's Avatar
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    2 turn overs by chiefs already? Seems very rare lol

    Edit: make that 3
    - Vanilla was legitimately bad; we just didn't know any better at the time - SirCowDog


  20. #1080
    Quote Originally Posted by Grube View Post
    Steelers are probably hoping Roethlisberger retires mid-season with how he has been playing.
    I think I saw that he had 14 yard on 8 attempts or something

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vestig3 View Post
    2 turn overs by chiefs already? Seems very rare lol

    Edit: make that 3 ������
    That first one was an amazing interception
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
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