2021-2022 NFL Thread

[Grube]

It isn't even just 2 QBs that improved after getting away from Gase. Multiple teams have won championships the year after replacing him.

Not sure what happened after he left the Bears, they just might be cursed.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Yeah and with Gase this isn't a one-time thing, it's not "Well Teddy just wasn't a good fit for Carolina but was for Denver."

This is two QBs at two different coaching stops now that look like they finally figured out the NFL after getting away from him. That's not just bad fits, that's bad coaching.

[Darththeo]

Yeah and with Gase this isn't a one-time thing, it's not "Well Teddy just wasn't a good fit for Carolina but was for Denver."

This is two QBs at two different coaching stops now that look like they finally figured out the NFL after getting away from him. That's not just bad fits, that's bad coaching.

IMO, to judge bad coaching, you would actually have to see the coaching (or lack there of). You are assuming bad coaching based on a pattern that can be explained by poor fit.

But, bad coaching is a blanket term covering a lot. Bad coaching can be not recognizing your system doesn't fit the players you have an adjusting.

[Vetali]

IMO, to judge bad coaching, you would actually have to see the coaching (or lack there of). You are assuming bad coaching based on a pattern that can be explained by poor fit.

But, bad coaching is a blanket term covering a lot. Bad coaching can be not recognizing your system doesn't fit the players you have an adjusting.

Looks like pretty bad coaching to me.

[Darththeo]

Looks like pretty bad coaching to me.

And Bill Belichick was 36-44 with the Browns ... would you say Bill Belichick was a bad coach when coaching the Browns?

Things are as simple as W-L records. It would make things easier if it was the case.

Gase maybe a bad coach, or his coaching system isn't good for in the NFL, etc
There are many factors and possibilities.

[Vetali]

And Bill Belichick was 36-44 with the Browns ... would you say Bill Belichick was a bad coach when coaching the Browns?

Things are as simple as W-L records. It would make things easier if it was the case.

Gase maybe a bad coach, or his coaching system isn't good for in the NFL, etc
There are many factors and possibilities.

Aaand? He was fired.

Its the NFL, not high school football. Coaches are graded by win/loss record. Nothing more or less.

[ProphetFlume]

And Bill Belichick was 36-44 with the Browns ... would you say Bill Belichick was a bad coach when coaching the Browns?

Things are as simple as W-L records. It would make things easier if it was the case.

Gase maybe a bad coach, or his coaching system isn't good for in the NFL, etc
There are many factors and possibilities.

And which do you believe?

[Krayz]

Coming from a Phins fan, Gase is trash. Garbo. Dumpster fire bad.

Speaking of my phins, last weeks shellacking sucked and I expect more of the same sadly vs raiders. Our OLine is paper.

[Goliad]

Can you believe Adam Gase is going to go 2-0 on QBs leaving him and going on to be passable starters?

no one believes this

[Darththeo]

Aaand? He was fired.

Its the NFL, not high school football. Coaches are graded by win/loss record. Nothing more or less.

That's not entirely true and you know it.

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And which do you believe?

Nothing personally.

[Brubear]

IMO, to judge bad coaching, you would actually have to see the coaching (or lack there of). You are assuming bad coaching based on a pattern that can be explained by poor fit.

But, bad coaching is a blanket term covering a lot. Bad coaching can be not recognizing your system doesn't fit the players you have an adjusting.

There's more than two examples, though.

There's also Tannehil, Parker, Gesicki, Kenyan Drake, Robby Anderson, Landry, and pretty much any offensive player on the Dolphin's under Gase including linemen. Dude always misuses the talent he has, has poor schemes, and players have shown much better performance and execution once he's no longer their coach (whether it's with the same team because he was fired or because they left to play somewhere else).

And yes, part of being a coach is finding players who either fit your scheme or adjusting your scheme to fit the players you have. He's shown an inability to do either one over multiple years. At that point you push aside the "players were a poor fit" excuse for his results. Hell, the best season he helped oversee was when we was the offensive coordinator for the Broncos in 2013. Manning had a record-breaking year, but it's freaking Peyton Manning in the final days of his career. I'd love to see you try and claim that Gase was the one responsible for that when he's shown an inability to repeat such success in multiple stints across 3 different teams since then.

[Darththeo]

There's more than two examples, though.

There's also Tannehil, Parker, Gesicki, Kenyan Drake, Robby Anderson, Landry, and pretty much any offensive player on the Dolphin's under Gase including linemen. Dude always misuses the talent he has, has poor schemes, and players have shown much better performance and execution once he's no longer their coach (whether it's with the same team because he was fired or because they left to play somewhere else).

And yes, part of being a coach is finding players who either fit your scheme or adjusting your scheme to fit the players you have. He's shown an inability to do either one over multiple years. At that point you push aside the "players were a poor fit" excuse for his results. Hell, the best season he helped oversee was when we was the offensive coordinator for the Broncos in 2013. Manning had a record-breaking year, but it's freaking Peyton Manning in the final days of his career. I'd love to see you try and claim that Gase was the one responsible for that when he's shown an inability to repeat such success in multiple stints across 3 different teams since then.

I am not saying he isn't a bad coach or that he is a good coach.
I am saying that I don't really have enough to say he is a bad coach.

These are two different stances.

Please note: I don't consider incompetence the same as bad.

[Grube]

I don't think I have seen anyone defend Adam Gase before.

Hell, the best season he helped oversee was when we was the offensive coordinator for the Broncos in 2013. Manning had a record-breaking year, but it's freaking Peyton Manning in the final days of his career. I'd love to see you try and claim that Gase was the one responsible for that when he's shown an inability to repeat such success in multiple stints across 3 different teams since then.

Gase was mainly just OC in name only. Manning ran the offense.

[Gestopft]

I don't know if fan is the right word. Unwilling follower, indoctrinated during childhood is a better way to describe it.

My in-laws from Michigan broke free; you can do it too!

[ProphetFlume]

I don't think I have seen anyone defend Adam Gase before.

He’s not really defending him, just playing devil’s advocate for the sake of it.

[eschatological]

I am not saying he isn't a bad coach or that he is a good coach.
I am saying that I don't really have enough to say he is a bad coach.

These are two different stances.

Please note: I don't consider incompetence the same as bad.

There's not enough evidence that Adam Gase is a bad coach? Have you watched any team he's coached? I usually watch Dolphins (and Jets, and Patriots) game because I'm a Bills fan, and he was horrific. Ryan Tannehill looked okay before he got there, and has looked even better after leaving Gase. Inbetween? He looked like a train wreck. The Jets under Gase were.....horrific. Like, truly horror show stuff. That's a good 6 seasons of bad coaching illustrated by awful offenses, for a supposed offensive guru.

Also I don't understand how you can say "incompetence isn't the same as bad." Unless you consider his incompetence an innocent ignorance of how to coach, which......I don't think could be possible, considering the years it usually takes to become a head coach in the NFL.

[draynay]

Its a completely pointless discussion trying to draw a distinction that doesn't exist.

For example:

Gase maybe a bad coach, or his coaching system isn't good for in the NFL, etc

Apparently we aren't using the right criteria to judge an NFL coach in an NFL thread... but I figure with NFL thread discussion of an NFL coach that his failure to function in the NFL would mean he is a bad coach with all the context relevant to any discussion we could have here.

[Vestig3]

Gase was mainly just OC in name only. Manning ran the offense.

Word!

Manning decided pretty much all decisions on offense i doubt gase had much to do with it.

[Darththeo]

There's not enough evidence that Adam Gase is a bad coach? Have you watched any team he's coached? I usually watch Dolphins (and Jets, and Patriots) game because I'm a Bills fan, and he was horrific. Ryan Tannehill looked okay before he got there, and has looked even better after leaving Gase. Inbetween? He looked like a train wreck. The Jets under Gase were.....horrific. Like, truly horror show stuff. That's a good 6 seasons of bad coaching illustrated by awful offenses, for a supposed offensive guru.

Also I don't understand how you can say "incompetence isn't the same as bad." Unless you consider his incompetence an innocent ignorance of how to coach, which......I don't think could be possible, considering the years it usually takes to become a head coach in the NFL.

The issue is I can't tell if he is actually a bad coach or just incompetent.

I don't consider incompetence as bad unless I know it is willful incompetence.

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Its a completely pointless discussion trying to draw a distinction that doesn't exist.

For example:



Apparently we aren't using the right criteria to judge an NFL coach in an NFL thread... but I figure with NFL thread discussion of an NFL coach that his failure to function in the NFL would mean he is a bad coach with all the context relevant to any discussion we could have here.

Yes, because the NFL is something that is an immovable beast that the rules and play style are the same now as they were pre-merger.

And I love who you ignored the etc. And just because his SYSTEM is bad, doesn't mean HE is bad.

[eschatological]

If he was competent......he'd be a good coach.

Not only is competence and "quality of a coach" not mutually exclusive, I'd say they're positively correlated.