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  1. #21
    So, here's the thing. The large bombastic nature of the world (the cosmic pantheons, the different planes of existence, ect.) is actually pretty in line with a lot of modern day fantasy story telling. Not that I'm an expert in all of the the other universes but they seem to have a similar setup. D&D, ESO, and so on.

    My biggest frustrations are are a few specific points. One, our characters suffer from "chosen one" syndrome. I don't care if it's the Dragonborn from Skyrim, the Inquisitor from DA, or Azeroth's "champion" opening ancient relics because it's reacting to me for no reason. These kind of stories are self limiting because then your power must only grow and there can never be a real cap on it and they scream of special snowflake. Head canon, my main has never been in the raids to take down any of the big bads. Only ever following around the Alliance and Horde (or Order Halls) and helping with far less severe tasks. This needs to stop, have a fall from grace story, have us lose all of this extra power, and let us go back to being just some average joe. I'm totally fine with the "main" cast of WoW (Anduin, Jaina, Thrall, ect.) propelling the story forward, that's totally fine. I don't want anything to do with it.

    Another pain point for me is how this larger plot is eclipsing everything. I get that we're in the afterlives but this is the perfect time to be focusing on the smaller stories. The farmer dad that died in Redridge is a perfect example. Legit one of the best done stories in the game bar none. Drinking the lemonade your daughter made for you to try to stay alive while you fight back the undead and then dying anyways? What a remarkable story arc and all it took was a few quests. We need more of this and less Wild Gods going to Ardenweald to be reincarnated but there is an anima drought but we're going to save our bestie Ysera who's the creation of the Winter Queen's sister in the other plane of existence. Don't get me wrong, that's interesting but it's all tied back into the greater plot.

    Our personal characters mean nothing. They are no different then any of the NPCs in the story. Any semblance of player agency is just missing outside of transmog which itself is heavily restricted. There's no backstory for your character unless you write it up completely independently of the game, there's nothing in the way of character choices, and you can't even choose how to play your class. The entire RP aspect in RPG is completely missing. The MMO aspect is there and alive for sure but immersion? Nah, better go elsewhere. I'm totally aware its an MMO and there's only so much they can do but there is a difference between an attempt at player agency and what they're doing now.

    The other problem is that, like OP said, the races, the classes, the different factions in the world, their lore is largely just ignored. I mean you have the class order halls who are seemingly still in operation but are doing exactly nothing apparently, what's going on with the Scarlet Crusade? Did the Knight of the Ebon Blade just sit around with a thumb up their ass until Sylvanas came along? What about the Shaman and their connections to the spirit realm during the time of the Shadowlands? What is going on with the Forsaken and their struggles now that their leader of so long has disregarded them? How is the Horde counsel working out? What about the Alliance with Turalyon at the helm? How have the Tauren been faring with the Grimtotem being brought into the fold? What are the Demon Hunters up to with the Legion largely defeated? What is life like for the Draenei with Argus being completely lost but the Legion put down? How are the Gnomes and the Mechagnomes getting along? Just some of the loose story plots in the game that would be far more impactful than "hey, the void attacked the Shadowlands once back in the day."

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by MatPandaZ View Post
    Go watch a movie or read a book if you want top notch writing and story development. There aren't really any stories that release a new book/movie every 6 months for 15+ years that are any good. It's a story with no end. Just look at most long running anime, it's the same shit with power level increased... or meaningless soap like drama repeated again and again. When there is no end to a story it's never really going to be amazing and engaging for 20 years.
    Funny you should say that, been doing that a lot during this difficult year. But you know what I've also been enjoying a hell of a lot? Video games that are telling great stories. Wow has one of the widest arrangement of activities on the mmos, and their play content is pretty good, but I am enjoying less polished games more because they're telling good stories, that I am the hero of.


    This matters to me, it can't be so incohesive and random like it is in wow, but yeh, been watching stuff too.
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  3. #23
    Wows writing has been in the dumpster for ages my dude. Wow has a lot of great qualities but story telling ain’t in their bag of tricks.

    It’s kinda pathetic truth be told, and they keep trying to write these grandiose stories that fall flat on their face because they feel like they are written for or by 12 year olds playing with action figures rather than telling a deep, organic story

    Some people like the Disney channel stories that the wow writers tell tho and they’d be upset with hbo like mature stories that required any bit of personal growth on their part.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by ONCHEhap View Post
    Blizzard used to be actually decent at telling the story of a world instead of key characters.
    World building in the first two WoW expansions was genuinely really good,and their previous games had similar quality in their storytelling

    The issues started to arise when they switched to a "superhero" style of storytelling,with every beat of the story revolving around one or several characters. Not only are they worse at doing that,their characters also simply aren't that compelling.
    Things got even worse since Danuser became lead narrative designer in 2015. This guy is an actual hack who doesn't have the skills to lead such a story. The story was already off before he got there,but things became awfully Sylvanas focused afterwards
    World building, yes. But one of the major complaints I remember from the first two expansions were that the main characters didn't do anything. Thrall had some involvement in the Burning Blade chain, hinted that he'd need your help using Neeru Fireblade agains them, then nothing. Neeru gets offed by Garrosh four expansions in. Vol'jin and Cairne literally did nothing. And Sylvanas' only actions were to send you out to visit Nathanos for your first taste of abuse.

    So who's to blame for the expansion being awfully Garrosh-focused for four expansions?
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Daish View Post
    how could you not like a story where all the female characters are strong and overpowered while all the male characters need to be saved

    you must be sexist to not enjoy this kind of feminist storytelling
    I don't think I will ever get people like that, they're so arrogant, it didn't even occur to me to think that we have had a large amount of female heroes, nothing to do with that, but you are spot on, there are people who would think that the reason I don't like the story is because it's full of female characters.. they completely forget most men love females and most boys play female characters, the presence of females is not what's turning us off.

    A sucky story is a sucky story, a convoluted one a convoluted one, an inconsistent one an inconsistent one all over the place - it's not a pretext to hide my misogynist fascist leanings, it is co-incidental that it this one has lots of female characters.. but I can see how in this current climate, everything is turned into agendas, because some of the people writing that stuff aren't trying to tell good stories, or but preach their socio political agendas they are using entertainment like a platform.

    Fortunately I don't think blizzard is one of those companies yet, my view of the story is unrelated to females populating its major arcs, I happen to have quite liked Sylvanas, Jaina and Tyrande a lot, although I can't say the same for the stories atm, that are being told with them. But id id like the Jaina moment in BFA, but I guess some of those people would completely ignore that because they have victim mentality, and if you don't support them you must be a misogynist male.
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  6. #26
    imagine 'playing' a game for quest texts and cinematics. if story is so important you can just read everything up on wowpedia and cinematics on youtube instead of paying 15/months

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Don't get me wrong, a new realm is or rather can be an exciting premise, but as an interesting lore thin, there are way too many details and set up to make it polished enough to swallow.. furthermore, It's really become the adventures of the Warcraft legends...i.e. the Slvannas', Anduins, Thralls, Jainas, Malfurion's etc etc with me (the adventurer) tagging along for the experience as assistant.
    We were one of those in Legion. We fought two titans.

    "and has had consistent lore before"

    Having played since Classic and absorbed most of WC3 through youtube and the wiki, no not really.

    I guess this is just another thread of "well what WOULD appease you then?" Because I played GWD2 for a few months and found it really dry. Nice graphics, some interesting gameplay, but the overarching narrative about giant evil dragons was distant and impersonal.


    Yet I come back to World of Warcraft and they always make a point to make it personal, with specific, memorable characters I care about succeeding or failing.
    Last edited by Powerogue; 2021-02-23 at 03:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by dewd View Post
    imagine 'playing' a game for quest texts and cinematics. if story is so important you can just read everything up on wowpedia and cinematics on youtube instead of paying 15/months
    Imagine "watching" a movie. If story is so important you can just read the synopsis online and watch trailers on youtube instead of paying to see the movie.

  9. #29
    You're just now realizing the story of Warcraft is hot garbage? Where have you been?

    Been playing since vanilla and literally couldn't tell you anything about any NPC in the game other than Wrathion turns into a dragon for some reason, and I only know that because the cutscenes in the cloak quest last expansion weren't skippable.

    There are tons of games with really good stories, go play them, sounds like you'll have a way better experience playing something that was made to tell a story.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by ONCHEhap View Post
    Blizzard used to be actually decent at telling the story of a world instead of key characters.
    not in wow, last great warcraft story was frozen throne, story in wow was always cheasy and cheep and average at best,
    i dont know if it was changes in gameplay that lead people to realise it, but story didnt get worse, its what it always been in wow

  11. #31
    Dreadlord Pheraz's Avatar
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    I really agree - SL is also not my cup of tea.
    However, since I am not interested in most games due to not having the atmosphere I like, I continute to play.
    If an expansion is not so much my taste like SL, I just switch to alt mode and play world of transmogcraft
    But if SL does not deliver what I like about WoW SL could totally go to a point where I do not renew my 6 months this time, wait until next xpac and play d2 resurrected.
    This whole covenant concept just does not get into my head. First they praise it as "a real RPG" gameplay, but in the end it's just another system. Just that in BFA I could run around, get new gear, 5 seconds click the azerite traits I needed and could continute to do so. Now I need to run to that order-hall-for-the-poor and click some random table to get the new "tree" point.
    Vynd | Zorn | Pheraz | Silwyna | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle | Farodin - My personal Kaldorei army <3

  12. #32
    Once the player became a BIG named legend/hero in small world, instead of a random small adventure in a BIG world ... it went to shit.

    The microcosm will always feel more impactful and more emotionally resonate than the macro. It is why Jaws will be better than anything Marvel shits out. And even within the Marvel world, it's why origin stories are always better than the sequels.

    This is story-telling 101 (which I guess the WoW writers skipped). Personal stakes always feel more intense than global stakes. But to be fair, Blizzard jumped the shark several expansions ago ... and there was nowhere to really go with it.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    "It's always been gameplay first"

    They must be total dogshit at that department, then, cause Legion...
    How come? Legion was awesome in gameplay and systems, besides legendary acquisition which they fixed during Nighthold raid. I mean there are many people who point to Legion as WoWs greatest expansion or put it next to WotLK/TBC depending on when they got into WoW

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjub View Post
    Once the player became a BIG named legend/hero in small world, instead of a random small adventure in a BIG world ... it went to shit.

    The microcosm will always feel more impactful and more emotionally resonate than the macro. It is why Jaws will be better than anything Marvel shits out. And even within the Marvel world, it's why origin stories are always better than the sequels.

    This is story-telling 101 (which I guess the WoW writers skipped). Personal stakes always feel more intense than global stakes. But to be fair, Blizzard jumped the shark several expansions ago ... and there was nowhere to really go with it.
    yeah we should go back to "small personal threats" of vanila, where we killed one (strongest afaik) of old gods and two elemental lords who were supposed do be their strongest lieutenants...

    story and threats "size" was all over the place since vanila

  15. #35
    Hey OP, I was also thinking of making a thread on this topic. I feel very detached from the Shadowlands and its story. It feels like a ham-fisted attempt to have current characters meet with old ones or put something into motion. The Shadowlands just doesn't feel like its a genuine part of WoW to me.

  16. #36
    Pit Lord Wangming's Avatar
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    You play WoW if you want PvP and Raiding
    You play FFXIV if you want story, lots of optional side stuff and great professions.
    You play BDO if visuals and character customization is your thing.
    You play TESO for the progression system.
    You play GW2 for the dynamic open world questing and the mounts.
    You play SWTOR because you really really really like Star Wars.
    You play TERA because you like lolies and you have a VPN to hide from the FBI.

    Pick your poison.

  17. #37
    I like wow. And it is the only MMO that ever kept me. BUT while i really really enjoy their storytelling it is just not enough tbh.

    It is always just bits and bites here and there. Never a really long story before it is done and you have to wait for 6 months for the next patch. Timegating helps a bit to stretch it out but there is just no real substance to any of it.

    A actually liked the story of BfA. But overall not really that much happend.

    I tend to go towards SP to scratch my story itch (or books) and for gameplay and shortterm story stuff wow is good. Love raiding and that stuff.

    Story of other MMOs is just not for me. Swotor was good, but the grpahic is... well... weird. Looked good at the time. FF14 is so cringy i cannot take it. Everytime on of those walking trafficcones or sexpuppetbunnies comes into play i just... can't

  18. #38
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    "I Quit" type threads don't tend to produce much in the way of constructive discussion or debate. Closing this.
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

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