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  1. #181
    I think it was a really bad idea for levels 10-50 to feed you almost nothing but tons of ultra niche super situational raid utility you probably won't need to use until the level cap while STARVING you for your core abilities. I leveled Paladin and my rotation consisted of two buttons until sometime in Heavensward. It was SO dull. I got through it, but jesus christ was it boring. I was reminded of my vanilla WoW days on the very same class it was so bad. And it's like that with almost every job. Physical ranged get AoE at least in time for level 16 and running dungeons. But casters? Forget it. You're single targeting shit in dungeons for an eternity. I'm at a point now that when a friend needs leveling roulette I help out with dancer as it's just pure misery doing ARR dungeons with SMN and other jobs.

    Speaking of roulette, what is up with the RNG? I get the matchmaking with new players that need a dungeon to progress their MSQ, but it boggles the mind how it's always low level ARR dungeons even with a full premade party of level 70+. I thought it was just RNG gonna RNG but two years of this since I started playing and it just beggars belief.

    Speaking of running the same few dungeons over and over again, Square is out of their mind limiting Expert to just two. They spent countless resources making all of these leveling dungeons in ShB and I basically never see any of them any more. Come on Square. If you can't give us two dungeons every patch like you used to, at LEAST let us also run one of the old ShB dungeons in expert, just tune the numbers around the current item level.

    Fates. Give us an option we can toggle that automatically syncs our level upon attacking a Fate enemy without having to select the sync option every single fate EVERY TWO MINUTES. Oh, you slipped "just" out of Fate range by accident? BETTER SYNC UP AGAIN.

    Glamour system. Total nightmare. Not enough space for gear. Just copy and paste the transmog system from WoW please. I'm really tired of shuffling gear around I don't want to lose as there just isn't enough space. A BIG part of the game is glamour. Overhauling this system is WAY more important that Square realizes.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    I didn't enjoy the first version at all. I tried returning to the new version and I still had bad taste playing it. The first version just ruins the view of it as an MMO.
    That's too bad. I'm not understanding how the first version ruins the view of it as an MMO when the new version is completely different, by design, but if that's how you feel then more power to you. Understand it's not for everyone, just advocating that you should give it a fair shake before writing it off completely. But you do you, no pressure, not trying to proselytize or anything.

  3. #183
    Dreadlord reemi's Avatar
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    I played FFXIV a lot, I have max level and everything. Same with WoW... currently playing WoW.

    IMO, FFXIV deserve a better score but, I prefer playing WoW.

    Negative...
    1. Too long to level
    2. Too long to kill a monster, combat too slow for me. Global cooldown is very slow too.
    3. Never feel strong
    4. I dont really like dungeon mechanics, the red marks on the group if you don't avoid it kill you faster than WoW, but at same time, you can res anytime... It's slower too. I found bosses more interesting in WoW. It's boring to dps in FFXIV, you don't feel the combat. Healing is not fun too because you don't have any addons.
    5. Lack of loots and rewards
    6. PvP
    7. Transmog is amazing
    8. No addons, no dps meter, nothing..
    9. No community, I mean, it's a solo game with people around you... Yes you can join a guild, but you can in WoW too.

    Positive:
    1. Better Story of course
    2. Less stressful
    3. Less addictive
    4. Less time consuming
    5. More casual Friendly
    6. People are more friendly and comprehensive, they will help you in dungeon if you have trouble.
    7. People are more mature too I think.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Nasuuna View Post
    I'd like more challenging 4 man content

    There is also massive community issues hiding behind the guise of friendly. They aint friendly the moment you step out of any form of arbitrary, unwritten social guidelines

    other than that, its really just gripes with how some jobs play
    As would I, but within the given combat design HOW would you envision it? I've tried numerous times and I just can't find many meaningful situations without sweeping redesigns to the tanking/healing paradigms.

  5. #185
    Final Fantasy is 100% my favorite series. Final Fantasy XIV has a really good story. That said, the story's delivery fails massively and hurts it so badly that it makes it difficult to recommend to any other series fans.

    First, nearly every piece of information is delivered through overwrought exposition and ham-fisted dialogue. You'll finish a dungeon or big fight moment and then be told you have to attend a meeting where everyone recaps with head-tilted, hand on chin the exact events you just witnessed in excruciating detail. Then they tell you to teleport back to where you just were to continue.

    Second, the characters are severely melodramatic and for lack of a better term, anime tropes. They eschew nuance or layers in order to become one-note, and if in the next expansion that trope doesn't necessarily fit the story then they just reinvent the character completely in many cases. There is absolutely no subtext in the writing or room for speculation or interpretation. A man will die trying to hold up a building so his friends can escape, and those same friends will stand under the building crying and saying their farewells for 10 minutes... only to get outside and immediately say "Eh, he's probably fine." Within one expansion you can experience 5 different takes on the Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer stories, because the side quests are hot garbage 95% of the time (there are some I like).

    Then lastly, from a story perspective for an MMO, you aren't actually playing your original character. I didn't quite realize this at the beginning, but as I finished the latest expansion [SPOILERS] it made clear that I am playing Square Enix's main character, not mine. I chose what they looked like, but I am absolutely the final, lost member in a council of fallen demigod-like figures responsible for the current state of the world... SE says so. That's fine if it were Noctis, Tidus, Cloud, w/e... but this is an MMO.

    Story aside, I'll make a quick and simple point: playing with friends is way more difficult than it needs to be. I'm either waiting for them to do a dozen pre-reqs, they're waiting for me to be eligible for something, etc. I've lost track the amount of times I've hopped on after a patch hits and suddenly my roulettes are "????" and bam... can't play with my buds. It's infinitely worse when my wife joined via the actually awesome free-trial and found out that to play with her I'd essentially be a glorified baby sitter as she ran from cutscene to cutscene, since her character could do jack-all but a Guildhest or two.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Akibaboy View Post
    Then lastly, from a story perspective for an MMO, you aren't actually playing your original character. I didn't quite realize this at the beginning, but as I finished the latest expansion [SPOILERS] it made clear that I am playing Square Enix's main character, not mine. I chose what they looked like, but I am absolutely the final, lost member in a council of fallen demigod-like figures responsible for the current state of the world... SE says so. That's fine if it were Noctis, Tidus, Cloud, w/e... but this is an MMO.
    I never really got this complaint.

    If it's an MMO based around a story, you're going to be a part of that story, and your role is largely not up for negotiation at all. You can headcanon yourself into whatever you want I suppose, but ultimately you're just along for the ride in the story the developer wants to tell, and in the role the developer wants the player to be in.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    As would I, but within the given combat design HOW would you envision it? I've tried numerous times and I just can't find many meaningful situations without sweeping redesigns to the tanking/healing paradigms.
    honestly they'd have to break the 4 trash packs - boss - 4 trash packs - boss - 4 trash packs - boss in every dungeon pattern.

    Thousand Maws first half did it well, something like that

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Nasuuna View Post
    honestly they'd have to break the 4 trash packs - boss - 4 trash packs - boss - 4 trash packs - boss in every dungeon pattern.

    Thousand Maws first half did it well, something like that
    The only fond memory I have of Totorak is that the last boss was actually somewhat of a challenge if your entire party was literally brand new to the game (we were), didn't understand ANY of the game mechanics (we didn't), and were approx 30ilvl lower than intended (quite literally mostly starting gear that the one quest FORCES you to buy from the vendor).

    It's a pretty universally disliked dungeon last I checked too? Sure it was a little less forced hallways (despite still being forced hallways), but most of it was super tedious and the enemies hardly interesting and the low level gameplay not great either.

    So is that how you'd define and wish for more challenging 4 man content?

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    I never really got this complaint.

    If it's an MMO based around a story, you're going to be a part of that story, and your role is largely not up for negotiation at all. You can headcanon yourself into whatever you want I suppose, but ultimately you're just along for the ride in the story the developer wants to tell, and in the role the developer wants the player to be in.
    It's not a problem that the direction of the world's story is decided on by the game makers, it's the fact that the identity of your character is. For example, in FFXI you make your character and use them to engage is Square's story for the game... they never tell you who you are, where you came from, etc. Even in the final conclusion of XI's Rhapsodies, the game goes out of the way to define you by all the actual accomplishments you did or didn't do as the player. They don't dictate who you were prior to rolling your character, and don't try to tell you you're something you're not after. You're just a hero that persevered through it all and became a legend because of the deeds at hand.

    WoW is similar. Whether I play a Warlock or a Paladin, the events and actions are generally so vague (especially back in Vanilla's time), that there's still tons of space to role play the way you want to and to define your motivations and subtext for why it's probably good for the planet you live on to not evaporate in hellfire. Even in the heavily scripted events of Legion, the reason you became a Highlord or Leader of the Black Harvest wasn't because of some blessing or sacred prophecy you were born to fulfill - it's because of the actions that brought you to that moment and earned the reverence of those around you.

    Every step of the way in XIV, people praise you for everything you've done as you've made a legend of yourself... but that's tempered with the fact that the reason you're able to do anything is that you're special, touched by the creator, channeling the echo, lighting the crystals, etc. until we find out that you are a demigod, one of the summoners of the first Primal. Whatever origin story you came up with, motivations and convictions you had, struggles or limitations you'd balanced them against... none of that matters because you will always receive your divine Deus Ex to do the job for you. For example, at one point the game actually tries to disassociate itself with the ongoing Superman dilemma they've built you by having Sephiroth-wannabe Zenos absolutely obliterate you in a 1-on-1 fight. See? You're still mortal and there are other, regular mortals waiting to put your in your place if you don't remain vigilant. So some stuff happens, you level a couple times, and you face off against Zenos again, except before you even get a chance for a redo on that 1-on-1 fight, he eats a Super Primal and becomes even more powerful... how do you bridge that gap now?! God power, of course. No buildup, no explanation, no personally doing 8000 quests to empower a unique, external artifact that you personally enhance and invest in over the course of 2 years to justify you being able to win that encounter, you just do because you're a god - and soon enough in the next expansion they'll put in a cutscene telling you as much.

  10. #190
    It had a Metacritic average of 48 and suffered from unstable servers — up to 400 crashes per day! — a lack of content and minimal story in a franchise known for having plot as one of its core parts. Yoshida pointed to three main reasons for Final Fantasy 14's failure in that first form.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    The only fond memory I have of Totorak is that the last boss was actually somewhat of a challenge if your entire party was literally brand new to the game (we were), didn't understand ANY of the game mechanics (we didn't), and were approx 30ilvl lower than intended (quite literally mostly starting gear that the one quest FORCES you to buy from the vendor).

    It's a pretty universally disliked dungeon last I checked too? Sure it was a little less forced hallways (despite still being forced hallways), but most of it was super tedious and the enemies hardly interesting and the low level gameplay not great either.

    So is that how you'd define and wish for more challenging 4 man content?
    more referring to dungeon layout.

    I'd like to seeing the designers attempt at something like a 45-60 minute dungeon

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    I never really got this complaint.

    If it's an MMO based around a story, you're going to be a part of that story, and your role is largely not up for negotiation at all. You can headcanon yourself into whatever you want I suppose, but ultimately you're just along for the ride in the story the developer wants to tell, and in the role the developer wants the player to be in.
    Indeed. In FFXIV, you are an active participant around whom the world evolves, for good or for ill. In WoW, you are a passive observer... yet the world still revolves around you, for some reason.

    Also, I like the idea that character creation is, quite literally, choosing a new form to incarnate into in the aftermath of the Calamity. It makes a ton of sense in the context of recent revelations.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Nasuuna View Post
    more referring to dungeon layout.

    I'd like to seeing the designers attempt at something like a 45-60 minute dungeon
    Fair enough. I mean Totorak with pugs is a 45-60 minute dungeon at times Jokes aside, dungeon design leaves a lot to be desired, but honestly I could tolerate it if the gameplay systems were deeper.

  14. #194
    No evil classes or races to play. I’ve gotta be the goodie two shoes, when games like swtor and eso embrace the villain fantasy head on

    Plus, no world pvp I’m aware of and kind of generic combat

    That said, Chocobo racing is amazing

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Nasuuna View Post
    more referring to dungeon layout.

    I'd like to seeing the designers attempt at something like a 45-60 minute dungeon
    I could do less with length of dungeon and more with things to pay more attention to. XIV often seems to put a lot of effort into bosses but very little into the rest of most dungeons, give us something to do other than sprinting from one wall to the next and popping cooldowns.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    Indeed. In FFXIV, you are an active participant around whom the world evolves, for good or for ill. In WoW, you are a passive observer... yet the world still revolves around you, for some reason.
    This shit right here is what drives me up the wall about WoW's current story. "Oh yeah, you're important, wink nod nudge. I promise. Just stand right over here, out of the way of the important stuff. Oh, and go kill all these things for me like a good little boy, wouldn't you? You're important, HERO! CHAMPION MAN! Because I said so! Better not be in this cutscene though, we don't want you really seen." I would rather have FFXIV's or GW2's mode of "you're directly important." However, the best approach was back when you were a soldier, a bit of a nobody. They really kicked that to the curb in WoD, and since then it's been this idiotic balance of "You're important enough to be in the spotlight, but not the real spotlight."

  17. #197
    Titan Sorrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merie View Post
    I think it was a really bad idea for levels 10-50 to feed you almost nothing but tons of ultra niche super situational raid utility you probably won't need to use until the level cap while STARVING you for your core abilities. I leveled Paladin and my rotation consisted of two buttons until sometime in Heavensward. It was SO dull. I got through it, but jesus christ was it boring. I was reminded of my vanilla WoW days on the very same class it was so bad. And it's like that with almost every job. Physical ranged get AoE at least in time for level 16 and running dungeons. But casters? Forget it. You're single targeting shit in dungeons for an eternity. I'm at a point now that when a friend needs leveling roulette I help out with dancer as it's just pure misery doing ARR dungeons with SMN and other jobs.

    Speaking of roulette, what is up with the RNG? I get the matchmaking with new players that need a dungeon to progress their MSQ, but it boggles the mind how it's always low level ARR dungeons even with a full premade party of level 70+. I thought it was just RNG gonna RNG but two years of this since I started playing and it just beggars belief.

    Speaking of running the same few dungeons over and over again, Square is out of their mind limiting Expert to just two. They spent countless resources making all of these leveling dungeons in ShB and I basically never see any of them any more. Come on Square. If you can't give us two dungeons every patch like you used to, at LEAST let us also run one of the old ShB dungeons in expert, just tune the numbers around the current item level.

    Fates. Give us an option we can toggle that automatically syncs our level upon attacking a Fate enemy without having to select the sync option every single fate EVERY TWO MINUTES. Oh, you slipped "just" out of Fate range by accident? BETTER SYNC UP AGAIN.

    Glamour system. Total nightmare. Not enough space for gear. Just copy and paste the transmog system from WoW please. I'm really tired of shuffling gear around I don't want to lose as there just isn't enough space. A BIG part of the game is glamour. Overhauling this system is WAY more important that Square realizes.

    The skill thing is due to the pruning sadpy. It used to be a complete toolset minis a few flairs by 50 and you got skills every few levels.

    The rest yeah i can definitely agree with

  18. #198
    - rough start
    - bloated class abilities, rotation feels very punishing and unimpactful
    - boss rooms and dungeons all feel the same
    - horrible input lag
    - low amount of content
    - boring and flavorless gear and stats

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by reemi View Post
    I played FFXIV a lot, I have max level and everything. Same with WoW... currently playing WoW.

    IMO, FFXIV deserve a better score but, I prefer playing WoW.

    Negative...
    1. Too long to level
    2. Too long to kill a monster, combat too slow for me. Global cooldown is very slow too.
    3. Never feel strong
    4. I dont really like dungeon mechanics, the red marks on the group if you don't avoid it kill you faster than WoW, but at same time, you can res anytime... It's slower too. I found bosses more interesting in WoW. It's boring to dps in FFXIV, you don't feel the combat. Healing is not fun too because you don't have any addons.
    5. Lack of loots and rewards
    6. PvP
    7. Transmog is amazing
    8. No addons, no dps meter, nothing..
    9. No community, I mean, it's a solo game with people around you... Yes you can join a guild, but you can in WoW too.

    Positive:
    1. Better Story of course
    2. Less stressful
    3. Less addictive
    4. Less time consuming
    5. More casual Friendly
    6. People are more friendly and comprehensive, they will help you in dungeon if you have trouble.
    7. People are more mature too I think.
    The main reason I have left WoW is because the tryhards spend way too much time being concerned about how/what others are playing instead of doing their thing, even in normals/heroics/leveling stuff. Also, the slightest slowdown/inefficiency/wipe in a random will bring raging and/or ragequits in WoW. It would be one thing if this stayed in Mythic+ and Heroic/Mythic raiding, but, it's not. People will hassle others in normal and heroic 5-mans because they're not playing the 'right' spec or class, or not doing X DPS on someone's meters.

    EDIT: I'm no 'bad player'. I spent years as a hardcore raider, and I still know how to play now. What I *don't* have any patience for is assholes, and WoW has too many assholes spending way too much time telling other people how to play the game, even at a casual level. YMMV. (I compare those people to the guy in World of Warships who's telling everyone in the match how bad they are...when the person doing the raging is already dead 2 minutes in...)


    FFXIV for the most part you simply don't encounter the rage, and the ragequits, and the other stuff. Sure, there's some of that at high difficulties, but it stays there, and doesn't 'leak' into the casual side of the game. Also, DPS meters are not allowed in FFXIV.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Merie View Post
    Speaking of roulette, what is up with the RNG? I get the matchmaking with new players that need a dungeon to progress their MSQ, but it boggles the mind how it's always low level ARR dungeons even with a full premade party of level 70+. I thought it was just RNG gonna RNG but two years of this since I started playing and it just beggars belief.
    I'm pretty sure this is by design. Unlike WoW, many dungeons and trial are mandatory MSQ content to complete, so they keep those full, and keep them relatively simple for people who aren't seeking challenge. If it's not 'extreme' or 'savage' or 'ultimate' it's not to challenge you, really.

    If you don't like helping teach/carry the noobs, then you probably should go back to WoW and stay there. There you can spend all the time you want telling them what they're doing wrong and how much they suck. WoW allows and revels in that now.
    Last edited by agm114r; 2021-03-11 at 06:54 PM.

  20. #200
    The obvious thing - GCD - even with ton on off-GCD skills introduced in later expansions, it still feels very off.

    Then lack of sound queues during the boss fights. I do fights mostly on sound - in WoW its either DBM or boss dialogue - in XIV we have pretty nice, visible telegraphs, yet most of the boss skills are totally silent.

    And last gripe is the very poor quest structure - lots of back n forth backtracking. Instead of nice questhub, there is like 1-2 top 3 quests, which asks you to go to the other side of the map (or world), do speak to one NPC, and then go back to the questgiver for another quest in the same vine

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