What problems do you have with Final Fantasy 14?

[Dakhath]

I just got done with the 1-80 leveling experience as someone who played wow since vanilla.

I literally have no idea what you’re talking about. I’ve had nothing but overwhelming positive experiences with the community. So many people went out of there way to be helpful, patient with me and I never dealt with a single toxic person.

Furthermore, I’ve literally not heard anyone but you say so many negative things. It's almost always overwhelmingly positive things about the community.

You seem to basing the communities off of subreddits, that probably less than 1% of either community ever really uses or has been to and a handful of personal bad experiences you seem to be amplifying.

To juxtapose my experiences for example. I logged in WoW a couple days ago to see what it felt like to play after FF14.

In one day of playing -

The BG I joined turned into a flame war with some guy telling everyone they’re trash and should quit (which is common).

The leader of my dungeon group kicked a rogue (and I'm pretty sure blocked) because he had ress sickness before we got to the dungeon but not before telling him he's a moron and a terrible player for having ress sickness, then spitting on him (he was still outside the dungeon when we got there) even though he was outside the dungeon way before any of us and only had 3 minutes of ress sickness left when he got kicked and it would of been totally fine.

Later I did an RBG yolo. A yolo. And the tank was decked out in 213 PvP gear, but didn’t have the “proper” leggo and the leader and his friends were laughing at him and telling him he’s trash and booted him.

And I'll compare that with FF14 where literally zero negative experiences happened in the 260 hours it took me to get to 80.

This is "some" of what happened in one day of playing and is everyday stuff in WoW in my 17 years of experience. I don't think it's even a comparison.

This is a poor comparison. You can level to 80 alone for 95 percent of it and then you compare it to WoW PvP which is arguably as toxic as the game gets. Nobody is saying that WoW isn't toxic, FF14 just isn't as sunshine and rainbows as people say it is. They don't even show opposing names in Frontlines, why do you think that is?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

When we talk about the "FFXIV community", we are usually talking about discussion of FFXIV outside of the game itself. Unlike WoW, I've seen scant discussion of the game inside the game's chat channels. Probably because of FFXIV's draconian chat policies where people can - and have - been banned for saying mild things that someone was "offended" by and reported. So all of the dissenters learned to keep their mouths shut and not to say anything. That has led to less players talking in FFXIV than in WoW. Sure, people will do the greeting at the start of a duty, but really, do they talk anything after? Besides maybe explaining the mechanics to new players? In contrast, there was a lot of discussion about WoW itself in WoW's tradechat, zone chat, or in raid chat, and people striking up casual conversations in /say or raid chat.

@Katchii and @Wrecktangle have talked about this before, but while WoW's community seems rougher, it is honest. People say how they really feel. If something is bad, they'll tell it straight. Whereas FFXIV's community is really plagued by a cult attitude where everyone has to pretend that everything is fine, FFXIV is the bestest thing ever, and anyone who says otherwise is either being "toxic" or is a troll and their opinion doesn't count and they weren't true fans anyway.

Twitter, r/FFXIV, the discord, the Something Awful megathread, and the Spacebattles megathread are very cultish. According to them, FFXIV is god's gift to mankind, the community is the nicest people on earth, and god forbid you don't praise Yoshida, Soken, or Ishikawa, or else you're a heretic and you'll be labelled as "toxic" or a "troll". They will ardently defend anything Square does, even if it is irrational. You're not allowed to talk about any of FFXIV's problems, because according to them, they aren't any problems. YOU are the problem for thinking that there is a problem!

The FFXIV official forums are tamer than the above and you see more dissenters posting there and more honest discussion of the game, but the cult attitude is still in effect there. Sadly it doesn't seem like the FFXIV dev team looks at the official forums for feedback; instead it seems like the devs pay attention to twitter.

MMO-C, the Gamefaqs board, and 4chan is where you see the dissenters, where people say "yeah, I like some things about FFXIV, but I have my gripes with it". There is where you will see the most honest discussion of the game.

As far as FFXIV Youtubers/Twitch streamers go, most of them are ass kissers. The only one who doesn't really mince words is slythefox, and to a certain extent, Zepla.

[Loveliest]

4 major issues for me:
1. Lag. When there is an event, game is unplayable, keeps disconnecting. Same happens ever weekend. This, as you can imagine is a dealbreaker. My friends who live in my country all have the same issue even though we are the country with the best internet connection. Hundreds of forum posts about this from other ppl, none addressed.
2. Ppl. Maybe i was unlucky, but ppl seem to bitch about WoW all the time. I have never seen anyone ingame in wow bitch about ff. Seems like all the bitter WoW players are in FF. Super bothersome.
3. Feels slowish. The global cooldown seems too long?
4. Questing blocked by dungeons and raids. Dungeons i get, but raids? And my experience with those had been a bunch of overgeared ppl running them for whatever currency without mattering if you exist or not even though i was supposed to tank.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I doubt anyone would actually act nice out of fear of getting banned, as for that it's enough to just not say anything. Unless in this case being nice simply meant not saying mean things.

There are many threads on the official forums of people complaining about the ingame chat policies, and lots of people admitting that they just don't talk at all in the game for fear of being banned.

[Mojo03]

This is a poor comparison. You can level to 80 alone for 95 percent of it and then you compare it to WoW PvP which is arguably as toxic as the game gets. Nobody is saying that WoW isn't toxic, FF14 just isn't as sunshine and rainbows as people say it is. They don't even show opposing names in Frontlines, why do you think that is?

I was actually just thinking of what I did THAT ONE DAY and what happened, which happened to be more PvP stuff. However I’m sure if I logged in today and did a pug raid or a M+ I’d likely have a different, but similar story to tell you because they’re just as bad.

In my 17 years of experience in WoW there’s a very high chance you’ll have to deal with toxic people no matter what you do.

And I’m not saying there isn’t toxic community elements of FF14, I’m sure there is and I’m sure it’ll happen sometimes once I do endgame stuff, I just haven’t experienced it in 260 hours.

Plus overall the people playing FF14 seem like they actually want to be there, rather than WoW where people just overall seem jaded and bitter and like they don’t want to be there but have nothing better to do.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Yeah, but people do this in every game. Post something negative about GW2 and the zerglings will be out in force against you. It's just how single-game communities act, for better or worse.

I think the insular nature of subreddits tends to lead to subreddits being echo chambers. The most popular opinion/posts that agree with that community's consensus get upvotes, so the posters get a dopamine hit from seeing the upvotes/likes and make more posts that agree with the consensus. Dissenters get downvoted and no one talks to their posts (or if someone does talk to them, it's about how they are wrong), so eventually they go "why bother?" and just drop out of that subreddit altogether, making it even more of an echochamber.

If you go to the GW2 official forums, you will see the dissenters talking openly about their problems with the game. It's a completely different community than that of the subreddit.

[Necromantic]

This is a poor comparison. You can level to 80 alone for 95 percent of it and then you compare it to WoW PvP which is arguably as toxic as the game gets. Nobody is saying that WoW isn't toxic, FF14 just isn't as sunshine and rainbows as people say it is. They don't even show opposing names in Frontlines, why do you think that is?

Pretty much. Anyone I’ve read talk about how awesome their experience was either leveled mostly alone, are brand new or are rose-tinted. Some will say “I’ve been playing a long time” but leave clues that say otherwise.

Not saying it’s a bad game as I enjoy it and am playing now but when people are flat-out dishonest about how the community is, it makes it hard to take them seriously.

[Twen]

There are many threads on the official forums of people complaining about the ingame chat policies, and lots of people admitting that they just don't talk at all in the game for fear of being banned.

Perhaps I didn't articulate my point clearly enough, that's exactly what I was saying; if you fear a ban then to avoid that it is enough to say nothing, it's not a reason to actually act nice. So I don't think the original claim that people are only friendly out of fear is true, unless you count saying nothing as friendliness, which I wouldn't.

That's not to say the policy is perfect, I was only commenting on the above, nothing else.

[Sorrior]

This was discussed either here on mmo-champ or on a Facebook group for FF14, I forget, but basically, IN-GAME the community is super chill... because they have to be, from what I've learned. Apparently SE isn't afraid to ban people for being mean, so most are nice out of fear, which kinda saddened me when I learned this. Always thought the playerbase just seemed nicer, but then they have their typical superiority complex over WoW/WoW players, because lOl BuT tHe GrApHiCs

I love both games. I love the graphics in both games.

You know what else I love? Zelda OoT and MM and Star Wars Shadows of the Empire. Who gives a shit about graphics? Oh, WoW is an actively online game versus these games are console games of the past? It's still on an older engine. The fact WoW is still so successful should say something. The graphics don't make the game and I wish people would recognize that fact.

This was only done in the past couple years.

Before the community overall was still pretty chill just without the potential bans

[Pannonian]

MMO-C, the Gamefaqs board, and 4chan is where you see the dissenters, where people say "yeah, I like some things about FFXIV, but I have my gripes with it". There is where you will see the most honest discussion of the game.

And the ever popular "Tales from DF", though there is certain extent of GCBTW in recent times.

But I'll agree with you, while the community seems nice at a glance, it is because people don't bitch at each other in fear for repurcussions. I always play with ACT on, and i'll bitch about SAM doing half damage of the tank, but only in discord. Not in game. If I'm especially bothered i will ask them to use AE rotations on packs if they aren't doing that (and my heart always breaks a little seeing DNCs doing single target on big pulls...).

In the end people playing FF14 are people like the ones playing WOW. They aren't better. Also, people aren't monolithic.

If i get a curebot sprout i will take my time to explain why freecure is a trap. If i see a multi-80 whm in expert dungeons doing the same i may find more poignant words, if i feel like.

Similar, on saturday i had the pleasure to heal 4 boosted DRK through lvl 70 dungeons, and not a single one used TBN. WTF? Now i got a macro with translations of all drk cds because i just can't anymore...

Still, never had any action taken against my account, even if i give people unwanted advice, because i always try to remain friendly and not flame them.

I don't really think there is a difference, just that FF 14 looks more friendly on the outside (and the good community pushes this narrative (and punishes anyone disagreeing)), while WOW can become a toxic clown fiesta openly, but is more honest.

To go back to the title of this thread:

What's really bugging me is the chat/instance system. It is so freaking annyoing, and even Ultima Online back in 99 worked better...

Or any of the other technical restrictions. Like weapons slots in armory. It gets a bit crowded if you max every job

[Delever]

When we talk about the "FFXIV community", we are usually talking about discussion of FFXIV outside of the game itself. Unlike WoW, I've seen scant discussion of the game inside the game's chat channels. Probably because of FFXIV's draconian chat policies where people can - and have - been banned for saying mild things that someone was "offended" by and reported. So all of the dissenters learned to keep their mouths shut and not to say anything. That has led to less players talking in FFXIV than in WoW. Sure, people will do the greeting at the start of a duty, but really, do they talk anything after? Besides maybe explaining the mechanics to new players? In contrast, there was a lot of discussion about WoW itself in WoW's tradechat, zone chat, or in raid chat, and people striking up casual conversations in /say or raid chat.

@Katchii and @Wrecktangle have talked about this before, but while WoW's community seems rougher, it is honest. People say how they really feel. If something is bad, they'll tell it straight. Whereas FFXIV's community is really plagued by a cult attitude where everyone has to pretend that everything is fine, FFXIV is the bestest thing ever, and anyone who says otherwise is either being "toxic" or is a troll and their opinion doesn't count and they weren't true fans anyway.

Twitter, r/FFXIV, the discord, the Something Awful megathread, and the Spacebattles megathread are very cultish. According to them, FFXIV is god's gift to mankind, the community is the nicest people on earth, and god forbid you don't praise Yoshida, Soken, or Ishikawa, or else you're a heretic and you'll be labelled as "toxic" or a "troll". They will ardently defend anything Square does, even if it is irrational. You're not allowed to talk about any of FFXIV's problems, because according to them, they aren't any problems. YOU are the problem for thinking that there is a problem!

The FFXIV official forums are tamer than the above and you see more dissenters posting there and more honest discussion of the game, but the cult attitude is still in effect there. Sadly it doesn't seem like the FFXIV dev team looks at the official forums for feedback; instead it seems like the devs pay attention to twitter.

MMO-C, the Gamefaqs board, and 4chan is where you see the dissenters, where people say "yeah, I like some things about FFXIV, but I have my gripes with it". There is where you will see the most honest discussion of the game.

As far as FFXIV Youtubers/Twitch streamers go, most of them are ass kissers. The only one who doesn't really mince words is slythefox, and to a certain extent, Zepla.

So according to you, Xenos is an asskisser and Zepla isnt?
Zepla is literally the cringiest youtuber I ve seen in my life. She literally pumps videos like "rating the butts of Eorzea" for content...

[Dakhath]

Zepla has had a few good videos, but she definitely seems like she's the equivalent to Taliesin & Evitel.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I feel like Meoni and Mr. Happy are more of the equivalent of Taliesin & Evitel. Always positive about the game. If they have anything bad to say, it's about their disinterest in Zenos and Fandaniel.

Zepla at least voiced reservations about the grind required for the Bozja relics, or the nature of the Bozja game systems, the nightmare that is housing, and so on.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, Meoni puts out a video on every single scrap of FFXIV news, no matter how insignificant it is. New statue on the Square Enix store? Posts a video. One new screenshot on the patch website? Posts a 10 minute long video. New McDonals promotion for a Black Chocobo mount? Posts a video. Etc. I only stay subbed to him to see in my feed if I missed anything that might interest me but hardly watch his videos. Whereas Zepla only really posts when there is something really worth talking about, or a topic she is really interested in.

[Dakhath]

Yeah, ill concede that. No idea how I forgot about Meoni, but he's easily the most annoying.

[infinitemeridian]

Small thing, but I absolutely hate the strafing animations in this game. Looks like you're walking on water or something.

[Icelin]

Player housing. I could go no where near it or experience it. I felt like I missed out on a big part of the game. (People usually most vocal how good housing is) I heard they might be trying to address this in the upcoming expansion? Something with a farm too? Not entirely sure didn't read a lot into it. There is burning questions the people must know.. will we have moogle workers? Namazu pond? Will there be Otter and fat cat minions? I hope this addresses the housing one way or another but that is just hopeful thinking.

[Shakzor]

Player housing. I could go no where near it or experience it. I felt like I missed out on a big part of the game. (People usually most vocal how good housing is) I heard they might be trying to address this in the upcoming expansion? Something with a farm too? Not entirely sure didn't read a lot into it. There is burning questions the people must know.. will we have moogle workers? Namazu pond? Will there be Otter and fat cat minions? I hope this addresses the housing one way or another but that is just hopeful thinking.

Not sure if you knew about that, but every district also has a big house with apartments. They don't have a garden and therefore no outdoor furnishing, but atleast you can get a small space and up to 100 housing items in there. Costs 500k Gil.
It also doesn't require you to go there every x amount of time or kicks you out if you don't.
What the farm thing really is in Endwalker, we don't know yet, but Ishgard will get a new housing district with 6.1, so ~1400 houses without the timer when it goes live. By far your biggest chance to get one (atleast a small one, large will without a doubt be gone instantly and medium... idk).

Also, you don't really "miss" out on anything, by not having housing.

[Echo of Soul]

You mean what server? If so, it's not just my server. My opinion of the community seems to be extremely common. Heck, go to the subreddit some time and pretend to be a new player asking for help and see what kind of replies you get. I seriously feel very sorry for new players who seek help. Getting such vague, condescending responses or just unnecessary comments like "We prefer you don't play so you're not dead weight" and seeing comments like that get tons of upvotes. That does not happen in any other MMO reddit I've been in. And that's just one example. Inside the game, people expecting end-game geared players in roulettes (wtf?) and berating them. It's the reason I rarely ever say anything.

It could be a problem you yourself is causing, you may not even be aware that you're doing it. Your experience is pretty much the complete opposite of that of the average player and the only variable in that equation is you.
If you want you could post some chat logs and we could try to help you figure out why this keeps happening to you. It's no fun playing a game feeling that everyone is mean to you, that's why a lot of players switched from WoW to FFXIV in the first place.

[prwraith]

So goddamn boring to level up...it's hilariously bad and dull. I often give up by lvl30 just because the game puts me to sleep

[Necromantic]

It could be a problem you yourself is causing, you may not even be aware that you're doing it. Your experience is pretty much the complete opposite of that of the average player and the only variable in that equation is you.
If you want you could post some chat logs and we could try to help you figure out why this keeps happening to you. It's no fun playing a game feeling that everyone is mean to you, that's why a lot of players switched from WoW to FFXIV in the first place.

lol no. It's not even happening to me, it's something I witness happening to others. Anybody acts crappy to me, I'll tell them where they can go.

Where are you getting this "average player" statistic?

And I don't need you (or whoever "we" is) to help me do anything, I have no problem.