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  1. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Oh the stories I could tell. My most recent leveling roulette grouped me with a tank who had everything at 80 (not blue mage) so by all account he should have been a seasoned veteran. But the way he just sprinted out of line of sight from me (the healer) all the goddamn time, he actually may have been a newbie with a ton of money for boosts.

    So yeah these kind of dicks exist in both games.
    That...... sounds like how he should be pulling? dungeons these days in xiv are literally
    -everyone pops sprint
    -tank pulls everything
    -aoe down

    doesnt matter if he LOSes you in the process as he wouldnt be getting hit while sprinting anyway

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    Removing without saying anything or saying something respectfully are fine, nobody will disagree with that. However, it can be subjective because I've lost count in my years in MMOs where someone said something like "git gud scrub" or "wtf noob" but SWORE they were "only trying to help." Toxic are (as I've gotten at) all the unnecessary comments people make. They know they're doing it yet many pretend like they don't because they don't want to hold themselves accountable for their inability to maintain their composure.
    This is pretty spot on. If you can't complain or offer feedback without insulting people or losing your shit it's better to just be quiet.
    I'll say though that WoW players seem to have less patience than your average MMORPG player, they can be very trigger happy at the slightest setback.
    In FFXIV I see all the time groups failing because of a single player, everyone else helping them out in order to get through the content and congratulating each other after successfully getting through the instance. The first year coming over from WoW I was genuinely surprised each time it happened, now it's the norm.

  3. #663
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    This is pretty spot on. If you can't complain or offer feedback without insulting people or losing your shit it's better to just be quiet.
    I'll say though that WoW players seem to have less patience than your average MMORPG player, they can be very trigger happy at the slightest setback.
    In FFXIV I see all the time groups failing because of a single player, everyone else helping them out in order to get through the content and congratulating each other after successfully getting through the instance. The first year coming over from WoW I was genuinely surprised each time it happened, now it's the norm.
    My experiences exactly. I've told people that it was my first time tanking a dungeon in FFXIV and typically always get comments like "It's cool. Just take your time. It's not a race " Whereas in WoW, if you say you're tanking for the first time, you're getting kicked 9 times out of 10.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    Are you being sarcastic?



    1) No it isn't. It's your decision on them not being good enough for your group. Even if they are good enough, majority rules. However, if you add in harassing or berating type comments then yes it is harmful.

    2) It depends on the context of what you communicate. Asking someone if they'll do something is fine. They may or they may not. Sometimes people are defensive because they don't want unsolicited advice or comments. They may be in their own comfort zone and not want to. They're not breaking any rules other than not playing to your standard. That said, again, if majority rules, they can be removed.

    3) Just like 2, it depends on the context. Asking if they can DPS too is perfectly fine. If they do not respond and the vote is successful, it's fine. Some people are not going to respond. I play on PS5 with a controller and replying to stuff on the fly can be quite cumbersome. I can enter comments quickly (in my opinion) yet its still waaaay slower than a keyboard.



    I can see someone seeing "come on man" as offensive. Is it honestly necessary? "Don't run away with the stack marker" is direct, to the point and does not add small implications that someone is incompetent. Maybe English isn't their first language? No need to say unnecessary things. If it gets to a point where you've had it, initiate a vote.

    Removing without saying anything or saying something respectfully are fine, nobody will disagree with that. However, it can be subjective because I've lost count in my years in MMOs where someone said something like "git gud scrub" or "wtf noob" but SWORE they were "only trying to help." Toxic are (as I've gotten at) all the unnecessary comments people make. They know they're doing it yet many pretend like they don't because they don't want to hold themselves accountable for their inability to maintain their composure.



    I'm sorry you were banned. Their moderators are something to be desired. Then again, I have over 25 years of moderation experience and I've not seen a forum moderated properly in over a decade.

    Just skimming sub comments in the mega question thread, you'll find people berated all the time. On occasion, I go in there to help newcomers by answering questions and probably a dozen times in the past couple years, I've messaged a user apologizing for how they were treated.



    I specifically mentioned when someone says they are but are not. I've seen PLENTY of it in my years in MMOs. People insisting they were the sole reason something was cleared when the content would have been cleared whether they were there or not.

    Do carries happen? Sure they do. And sometimes, there is a very logical explanation. In your case, we only have your side.
    No, I'm not being sarcastic in the slightest. Square Enix is VERY strict about their harassment rules and will ban people who are being assholes. Meanwhile, in WoW, it's practically encouraged and GMs rarely ever do anything about harassment.

  4. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    Seems the consensus feels this is worse in FFXIV.
    What consensus? You spouting some anecdotal evidence based on "this dude i saw on reddit didn't like the community" is not really making the point you think it does.

    For instance, the only thing i've ever heard of the FFXIV community is that it is extremely nice compared to other MMORPG communties. This also holds true with my own finding from playing the game on and off since the launch of the original trash-version of FFXIV.
    Me saying any of this doesn't really carry that much weight here now does it? I have nothing to back it up aside from "what I've heard/seen".

    If you've had bad experiences then that is unfortunate.

  5. #665
    The Lightbringer Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Gonna be honest, I don't believe the community comment at all. SE is really strict about toxic people and I see nothing but helpful people on the Crystal data center. Your description of the community fits WoW, not FF XIV.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Recently, I was tanking on my Gunbreaker and got matched up with a healer who was DPSing and refusing to heal. After I died three times, I asked if they were going to heal me and they said "lol you're gunbreaker. you're fine." so I left. Dicks exist in every game but I come across them so infrequently in FF XIV that it's not really much of a problem. I've been playing since March and that was the first and only dick I got grouped with. Everyone else has been chill and helpful.
    Same here kinda. There are dicks for sure, but I rarely meet them. Guess others have worse luck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post



    To be fair though why didn't you follow the tank? Why were you also LoS? I'm curious what you were doing lol instead of following?
    Uhmmm....helping the other half of the party? I can't run, heal and apply dots at the same time. And even if I'm too slow. I'm fairly certain as a party leader you have to adjust to the party speed. As a tank I NEVER pull unless I have everyone behind me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    That...... sounds like how he should be pulling? dungeons these days in xiv are literally
    -everyone pops sprint
    -tank pulls everything
    -aoe down

    doesnt matter if he LOSes you in the process as he wouldnt be getting hit while sprinting anyway
    Oh trust me he did get hit. A lot. Thre were times when he was down to half health by the time I caught up. And I wasn't asleep. I think I'm quite good at keeping people alive during leveling content, but that guy didn't make it easy. I'm a pretty bad tank though. Or at least consider myself a bad tank.

  6. #666
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Same here kinda. There are dicks for sure, but I rarely meet them. Guess others have worse luck.



    Uhmmm....helping the other half of the party? I can't run, heal and apply dots at the same time. And even if I'm too slow. I'm fairly certain as a party leader you have to adjust to the party speed. As a tank I NEVER pull unless I have everyone behind me.



    Oh trust me he did get hit. A lot. Thre were times when he was down to half health by the time I caught up. And I wasn't asleep. I think I'm quite good at keeping people alive during leveling content, but that guy didn't make it easy. I'm a pretty bad tank though. Or at least consider myself a bad tank.
    I notice most of the people trying to say FFXIV is bad are using examples of stuff that happens constantly in WoW rather than examples that happen frequently in FF. As a tank, the only group I've come across that was terrible was the one example I gave. Otherwise, people are pretty reasonable.

  7. #667
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    No, I'm not being sarcastic in the slightest. Square Enix is VERY strict about their harassment rules and will ban people who are being assholes. Meanwhile, in WoW, it's practically encouraged and GMs rarely ever do anything about harassment.
    Inside the game is one thing however, the community is not just the voices you see/do not see inside the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lindon View Post
    What consensus? You spouting some anecdotal evidence based on "this dude i saw on reddit didn't like the community" is not really making the point you think it does.
    Please don't be superfluous.

  8. #668
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    Inside the game is one thing however, the community is not just the voices you see/do not see inside the game.



    Please don't be superfluous.
    Even on the official forums, there's really no many examples at all of what you're implying. Also, you used the word superfluous but I'm not sure it means what you think it means. Lindon was 100% on point. You are acting like your anecdotal evidence is somehow the universal fact about the community.

  9. #669
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Even on the official forums, there's really no many examples at all of what you're implying. Also, you used the word superfluous but I'm not sure it means what you think it means. Lindon was 100% on point. You are acting like your anecdotal evidence is somehow the universal fact about the community.
    You must not go there as often as I do. I'm sure you'll say you go there often.

    Lindon was pontificating. And yes, I know what that word means. Nowhere did I say "it's universal fact."

  10. #670
    I just started playing about a week ago. I have tried two previous times to get into the game and it didn't click. I feel like I'm having a better time of it this go around though.

    My two things:

    1) The UI. It's really, really difficult to work with. It looks terrible, has very limited customizability and feels like little thought was put into the functionality. You can work around it, but it requires a lot of mental compromise to do so. This really could use an overhaul, or at the very least give people the tools to make addons even if it's only UI related.

    2) The learning curve. The game actually does a pretty good job of walking you through things and teaching you how things go, but a lot of stuff is very different from other MMOs. It's not a bad thing, per se, but you almost have to unlearn things from other games in order to make sense of this one. And while the game tells you what is possible, it doesn't always tell you how/what/why of individual things.

    BONUS ITEM: The lack of voice overs. You get spoken dialog at really random intervals, and it's pretty rare. It makes a lot of the quests feel unimportant, even when they actually are. Having more voicework in the game would really add to the overall experience when leveling and getting to know the game world and the characters in it.

  11. #671
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    You must not go there as often as I do. I'm sure you'll say you go there often.

    Lindon was pontificating. And yes, I know what that word means. Nowhere did I say "it's universal fact."
    Superfluous: being more than is sufficient or required; excessive.
    Nothing about what Lindon said was superfluous. Also, I go there plenty. I think you just see the couple of bad eggs and focus on them because it proves your point rather than looking at the community as a whole.

  12. #672
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Superfluous: being more than is sufficient or required; excessive.
    Nothing about what Lindon said was superfluous. Also, I go there plenty. I think you just see the couple of bad eggs and focus on them because it proves your point rather than looking at the community as a whole.
    I'm not going to play word gymnastics with anyone who googles a word just to see what it means and isn't sure if it's implied correctly. That's not what this topic is about.

    Gaslighting is not going to make this conversation go anywhere. You're welcome to believe whatever you want. I'm not here to change your mind.

  13. #673
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    I'm not going to play word gymnastics with anyone who googles a word just to see what it means and isn't sure if it's implied correctly. That's not what this topic is about.

    Gaslighting is not going to make this conversation go anywhere. You're welcome to believe whatever you want. I'm not here to change your mind.
    So it's mental gymnastics because I pointed out you used an utterly wrong word to try and trivialize someone's point instead of actually addressing it? No that's the REAL gymnastics. Furthermore, you accuse me of gaslighting but it's blatantly clear you don't know what that word means either. I didn't call you crazy. I'm saying based on the language of your posts it's clear you go out of your way to ONLY focus on the negative players and completely disregard everyone that is telling you that your experience is isolated and anecdotal since pretty much nobody is agreeing with you.

  14. #674
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    So it's mental gymnastics because I pointed out you used an utterly wrong word to try and trivialize someone's point instead of actually addressing it? No that's the REAL gymnastics. Furthermore, you accuse me of gaslighting but it's blatantly clear you don't know what that word means either. I didn't call you crazy. I'm saying based on the language of your posts it's clear you go out of your way to ONLY focus on the negative players and completely disregard everyone that is telling you that your experience is isolated and anecdotal since pretty much nobody is agreeing with you.
    Oh geez. It's WORD gymnastics because you do not know what the word means. You literally copied/pasted the first definition googles gives you, which concludes that you did not know what it meant in the first place. People who read a definition and think they know what it means but really don't is common. You're using that to get off topic.

    And now you're trying to say I don't know what gaslighting is and creating a strawman. Our conversations has come to an end.

  15. #675
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    Please don't be superfluous.
    What? You have nothing to go on. All you've ever said are things along the line of "this dude told me" and "people are mean to me ingame".

    Just looking at the responses here it seems like the consensus is that the FFXIV community is among the best.

    Please don't be ignorant.

  16. #676
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindon View Post
    What? You have nothing to go on. All you've ever said are things along the line of "this dude told me" and "people are mean to me ingame".

    Just looking at the responses here it seems like the consensus is that the FFXIV community is among the best.

    Please don't be ignorant.
    I have plenty to go on.

    Could you please quote where I said those things? I was trying to use the search function to find them and it wasn't yielding results.

  17. #677
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    Oh geez. It's WORD gymnastics because you do not know what the word means. You literally copied/pasted the first definition googles gives you, which concludes that you did not know what it meant in the first place. People who read a definition and think they know what it means but really don't is common. You're using that to get off topic.

    And now you're trying to say I don't know what gaslighting is and creating a strawman. Our conversations has come to an end.
    The word superfluous means excessive. Every form of the definition states that. But people on these forums typically refuse to accept comments like that so I supply the actual definition to avoid people screaming "NUH UH!!" I'm not getting off topic. I pointing out your comments are dishonest because instead of addressing the points put forward, you make false accusations.

    And you DON'T know what gaslighting means. Much like what you did with Lindon, you are turning to personal attacks instead of addressing the point I made. Your comments are 100% anecdotal but you spout it like it's a universal fact when it absolutely is not. You have been dishonest and any time someone has pointed out a flaw in your comments, you turn to personal attacks instead of discussing the point made.

    So many of your comments boil down to "dude, trust me" when saying negative things about the FFXIV community.

  18. #678
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    I have plenty to go on.

    Could you please quote where I said those things? I was trying to use the search function to find them and it wasn't yielding results.
    Good god man. You previously talked about word gymnastics and people not understanding what words mean and now you're quite obviously misinterpreting or not understanding what is being written.

    Still you have nothing to go on. You are the only person that's been spouting the "FFXIV community bad" recently without providing any examples. All you've done is responding without providing anything.

  19. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindon View Post
    Good god man. You previously talked about word gymnastics and people not understanding what words mean and now you're quite obviously misinterpreting or not understanding what is being written.

    Still you have nothing to go on. You are the only person that's been spouting the "FFXIV community bad" recently without providing any examples. All you've done is responding without providing anything.
    In my previous response to you, I asked if you could quote me where I said "this dude told me" and "people are mean to me ingame".

    Are you able to do so? I would greatly appreciate it.

  20. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    In my previous response to you, I asked if you could quote me where I said "this dude told me" and "people are mean to me ingame".

    Are you able to do so? I would greatly appreciate it.
    Once again, you're quite clearly showing your inability to understand what is being conveyed to you through the written word.

    Then again there's no real reason to continue a conversation where the majority already know that you're obviously wrong.

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