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  1. #81
    Titan HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    As much as I like the game, I do agree that the game itself kinda looks bland. As much as I love the way the cities look, they don't really seem to stand out, unlike WoW with Stormwind, Shattrath, or even Oribos for that matter. Not to mention that the style is kinda mid also. I love Final Fantasy, but when you compare 14 to any other Asian MMO, outside of the graphics and maybe 2-3 other factors, it just feels like you generic MMO art-wise. Doesn't really matter how many anime beams or anime spell attacks you throw at us (OH WOW, LOOK AT THE COOL ATTACK/HEALING SPELL! WHOA! ...lol), if they don't have substance, then it's kinda boring. Even the Sage doesn't look all that impressive. So you have beam weapons, and buff/healing spells for allies, big whoop...

    The game's got a TON of customization tho. Wish WoW could expand upon their own customization shit.

  2. #82
    The homogenization and overall watering down of the tank role has considerably dampened my enthusiasm for the game.
    I'm really hoping we're just in an awkward spot right now because of the Shadowbringers pruning, and that there will be a return to form in Endwalker.

    It's pretty well the highest quality MMO on the market though. Hard to argue against it's consistent polished content, outside of whether it serves particular player preferences.

  3. #83
    1: if you have retainers, 2 are free, then you are able to carry for about 450 items. if you have more than that, well.....

    2: There is actually a 48 man savage raid. called the delebrum.

    3: finaly fantasy has alot of content for crafters and housing, plus there is manderville etc.

    4: true that healers and tanks are a bit simple but if you screw a mechanic cuz you want to dps, you are dead.

  4. #84
    Titan HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    Also, let be just get this clear, in terms of raids, I love FFXIV's raids. BUT...there's a reason why this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPzfqdXivxE

    Will NEVER beat this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMK_huoSnVQ And it's not the fact that the overall fight is worse/better. Madness of Deathwing is a pretty shit fight, while the FFXIV boss slaps the Madness of Deathwing fight in terms of enjoyment. But, there IS however 1 reason why Madness will always be better. And that's PERSONALITY!

    Every Warcraft fight has its own personality, within each and every raid. They have their own platforms, with their own unique structures, etc. And Madness taking place in the Maelstrom just fits with the overall narrative Cataclysm, especially 4.3 was tryna portray. It's also ironic, since that's the same area where Deathwing released himself from Deepholm and broke the World Pillar to begin with.

    That doesn't mean every FFXIV boss lacks personality however: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzaaC-kOJGg This guy's got a cool platform and everything. Makes his fight stand out imo. But, a LOT of the bosses lack a unique room, and most of the time, the fights take place on some random platform in the middle of some area during the raid, where as in WoW, the fights mostly take place in the raid itself. Like, Garrosh's fight took place at his throne room, the Lich King happened at the Frozen Throne, Argus happened at the Seat of the Pantheon, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arewn View Post
    The homogenization and overall watering down of the tank role has considerably dampened my enthusiasm for the game.
    I'm really hoping we're just in an awkward spot right now because of the Shadowbringers pruning, and that there will be a return to form in Endwalker.

    It's pretty well the highest quality MMO on the market though. Hard to argue against it's consistent polished content, outside of whether it serves particular player preferences.
    Oh yeah, definitely. Been playing FFXIV every time I'm finished with my daily WoW stuff (Such as raiding with my guild, callings, RP for fun, etc). I don't regret it. Bosses are fun, OST's are fucking gorgeous (ALMOST rivals WoW for me, but WoW hits a place that just can't be beat imo), and there's a fuck ton to do. I love crafting, I love raiding, I just love it all tbh. Gearing's cool asf too.

    Oh, and the story. Listen, as much as I like WoW's story, it's also incredibly inconsistent and bound by fuckin books. FFXIV's story is mostly, if not, all in the fuckin' game. It's great!

  5. #85
    Love the game personally. I've been somewhat swapping between that and WoW for the last year. Still, it definitely has some glaring issues IMO.

    1. The forced early quests. It's fun to get into it for a while, but there's a reason why everyone talks about the slog between level 30 and Heavensward. I nearly quit there, I've had tons of guildies quit there, it's just not a great content setup. Important story for sure, but it's too much of a wall.

    2. Getting into housing. The housing savages are unreal in game when new neighborhoods come out. The hunt really made me want to quit for a while, just the frustration of clicking a sign for hours until someone gets lucky 5 minutes into their wait. As cool as it was to meet my neighbor when I finally got a place, the game needs real instanced housing IMO.

    3. Alt issues. I've long been an altoholic in most MMOs, but it is so intensely hard in FFXIV. I can't share inventory, I can't share gil, I can't mail them anything, nor can I set them as co-owners of my house. Each MMO I've tried has it's own weirdness with alts, but FFXIV is the only one where I've felt like the devs were actively trying to discourage having them.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    As much as I like the game, I do agree that the game itself kinda looks bland. As much as I love the way the cities look, they don't really seem to stand out, unlike WoW with Stormwind, Shattrath, or even Oribos for that matter. Not to mention that the style is kinda mid also. I love Final Fantasy, but when you compare 14 to any other Asian MMO, outside of the graphics and maybe 2-3 other factors, it just feels like you generic MMO art-wise. Doesn't really matter how many anime beams or anime spell attacks you throw at us (OH WOW, LOOK AT THE COOL ATTACK/HEALING SPELL! WHOA! ...lol), if they don't have substance, then it's kinda boring. Even the Sage doesn't look all that impressive. So you have beam weapons, and buff/healing spells for allies, big whoop...

    The game's got a TON of customization tho. Wish WoW could expand upon their own customization shit.
    I see where you're coming from, but for me... that's part of the appeal.

    It's like when Lord of the Rings gets flak for having a typical story with archetypal characters with generic setting... when those things became generic, typical archetypes because Lord of the Rings established them in the first place.

    Final Fantasy XIV borrows so much of its visual language from games that came before it in the franchise, and Final Fantasy is largely responsible for establishing that aesthetic that we now find "bland."

  7. #87
    They did the same thing that annoyed me in wow - pruned.

    I dont need to be OP but i do like complex gameplay even if it makes little difference in ouput. Without room to improve there is not much fun to be had in pve.
    Last edited by mbit; 2021-02-26 at 02:59 PM.

  8. #88
    Herald of the Titans Wangming's Avatar
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    I mainly have two gripes with the game at present. Magic items don't feel actually magic as they don't provide anything beside a stat boost and not enough central characters die. We accomplish way too much with way little casualties.

  9. #89
    To preface this, I love FFXIV. I'm drawn into it more than WoW or any other MMO I've played. But the game isn't perfect. The story, even during its lower points for me, and the world/lore draw me in more than other MMOs. Where I can't stay invested in others mmos for more than a week ro two at best when I try, I keep coming back to FF.

    The glamour system could use some work. I wish it worked more like WOW's, where you unlock appearances and then don't have to hold onto items or deal with the glamour dresser thing.

    Lots of little limitations. Like you can't teleport while sitting down etc.

    End game content might have been an issue for me but WOW burned me out on progression raiding so I really have no interest in savage/extreme/ultimate content, I just play casually and RP so while four savage fights in a tier and one ex trial in a patch and maybe one or two ultimates doesn't seem like a lot of raider content, it doesn't really bother me because I'm not the target demographic for that content anymore.

    Dungeons could stand to be more difficult, or have some sort of mythic type system for them.

    I feel they should have gone for instanced housing over the neighborhood feel of wards. Though adding new wards/housing areas helps, on high pop servers it's still very difficult for people to get plots.

  10. #90
    Titan HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    I see where you're coming from, but for me... that's part of the appeal.

    It's like when Lord of the Rings gets flak for having a typical story with archetypal characters with generic setting... when those things became generic, typical archetypes because Lord of the Rings established them in the first place.

    Final Fantasy XIV borrows so much of its visual language from games that came before it in the franchise, and Final Fantasy is largely responsible for establishing that aesthetic that we now find "bland."
    Tbf, in Lord of the Rings' defense, it was one of the first ever major Fantasy novels ever written, and it was one of the first, if not, the only successful and major fantasy movie franchise to date. FFXIV is taking its appeal from the past games, which other games copied and failed to reenact. Not to say this is a bad thing, but games such as Everquest and WoW are, while generic in its own right, also share a flavor I just don't think FFXIV captures.

    Even SWTOR has its own flavor to it, ya know? Idk, I just don't see it. FFXIV still looks gorgeous tho.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    I mainly have two gripes with the game at present. Magic items don't feel actually magic as they don't provide anything beside a stat boost and not enough central characters die. We accomplish way too much with way little casualties.
    Eh. You don't need to have people dropping like flies to have stories that emotionally resonate. The fact that I actually like Alphinaud - the embodiment of every trope that I hate in JRPGs - is a testament to their character building. A lot of modern storytelling substitutes killing a character off in a dramatic fashion to evoke a reaction from the audience with actually developing those characters so that their deaths actually mean something.

    Your very avatar is a prime example of a death that meant something. I felt that one. The same could not be said for any of WarCraft's characters, because any of their deaths would be a calculated effort to elicit a response.

    You cannot gain such resonance if you're killing off your cast for the sake of manipulating your audience.

  12. #92
    Titan HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    Love the game personally. I've been somewhat swapping between that and WoW for the last year. Still, it definitely has some glaring issues IMO.

    1. The forced early quests. It's fun to get into it for a while, but there's a reason why everyone talks about the slog between level 30 and Heavensward. I nearly quit there, I've had tons of guildies quit there, it's just not a great content setup. Important story for sure, but it's too much of a wall.

    2. Getting into housing. The housing savages are unreal in game when new neighborhoods come out. The hunt really made me want to quit for a while, just the frustration of clicking a sign for hours until someone gets lucky 5 minutes into their wait. As cool as it was to meet my neighbor when I finally got a place, the game needs real instanced housing IMO.

    3. Alt issues. I've long been an altoholic in most MMOs, but it is so intensely hard in FFXIV. I can't share inventory, I can't share gil, I can't mail them anything, nor can I set them as co-owners of my house. Each MMO I've tried has it's own weirdness with alts, but FFXIV is the only one where I've felt like the devs were actively trying to discourage having them.
    These are basically my main issues with the game aswell tbh. Also, I'm also in your situation OP. I switch between FFXIV and WoW a fuck ton. Then again, I love both games right now.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Tbf, in Lord of the Rings' defense, it was one of the first ever major Fantasy novels ever written, and it was one of the first, if not, the only successful and major fantasy movie franchise to date. FFXIV is taking its appeal from the past games, which other games copied and failed to reenact. Not to say this is a bad thing, but games such as Everquest and WoW are, while generic in its own right, also share a flavor I just don't think FFXIV captures.

    Even SWTOR has its own flavor to it, ya know? Idk, I just don't see it. FFXIV still looks gorgeous tho.
    I think the majority of the old zones, you have a case for. From Ishgard on, though? There's personality there. It's minimalist and clean, yes. Even generic. But it has a history to it.

  14. #94
    Titan HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    Eh. You don't need to have people dropping like flies to have stories that emotionally resonate. The fact that I actually like Alphinaud - the embodiment of every trope that I hate in JRPGs - is a testament to their character building. A lot of modern storytelling substitutes killing a character off in a dramatic fashion to evoke a reaction from the audience with actually developing those characters so that their deaths actually mean something.

    Your very avatar is a prime example of a death that meant something. I felt that one. The same could not be said for any of WarCraft's characters, because any of their deaths would be a calculated effort to elicit a response.

    You cannot gain such resonance if you're killing off your cast for the sake of manipulating your audience.
    I'll just say this right now...

    Arthas' and Varian's deaths are some of the most emotional moments in MMO History. FFXIV has death scenes that almost rival them tho...kinda...

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    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    I think the majority of the old zones, you have a case for. From Ishgard on, though? There's personality there. It's minimalist and clean, yes. Even generic. But it has a history to it.
    Oh yeah, later on in the game, there's definitely personality. EndWalker also seems to be full of personality and flavor, especially in that we're going to the moon, as well as the fact that some of the areas look cool as shit, especially the towns/cities. Was moreso talking in general though. But I'll agree with you in that there's definitely history. I've played past FF games before, and 14's style is basically no different from the styles of past FF games, and I love that.

  15. #95
    I think FF14 is great, and have recommended it to many people. It's a fantastic 10/10 story with a mediocre game attached.

    That being said, it has many horrendous problems. Large parts of it are pointless grinding, and extremely boring fetch quests. The UI is half baked and mostly broken, especially the social UI, which locks large parts of itself randomly (like not being able to see your guild info when in a raid).

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    Yep. It's a bit of a pain in the ass to get the UI setup, but when I came back to the game a few years ago I even messed around until I got something pretty close to the default WoW UI.
    I made my FFXIV UI look as close to my WoW UI as I could:



    vs


  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    I'll just say this right now...

    Arthas' and Varian's deaths are some of the most emotional moments in MMO History. FFXIV has death scenes that almost rival them tho...kinda...

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    Oh yeah, later on in the game, there's definitely personality. EndWalker also seems to be full of personality and flavor, especially in that we're going to the moon, as well as the fact that some of the areas look cool as shit, especially the towns/cities. Was moreso talking in general though. But I'll agree with you in that there's definitely history. I've played past FF games before, and 14's style is basically no different from the styles of past FF games, and I love that.
    Honestly, I didn't feel much for Arthas or Varian. I enjoyed Arthas's death scene, but it was entirely a foregone conclusion. Furthermore, the dude was a villain - even if he thought what he was doing was for the greater good, I disagreed with his choices from day one. As for Varian? It was pure manipulation. They obviously wanted to transition the Alliance story to focus on Anduin, and Varian's death was purely in service of that transition. I only felt a twinge of anger and disappointment because I feel Varian to be a much more engaging, fun character. He was fridged, so to speak.

    Haurchefant, though? Moenbryda? I felt those - vicariously, because I saw how they affected the characters that I was closer to, but also on their own merits. And Emet-Selch? His narrative is one of the very few stories that will haunt me long after I last engaged with the medium in which it occurred.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Deneios View Post
    You do know you can modify the ui like you would use bartender mod in wow. Everything is moveable and job gauges can be set to simplified so they wont take screen space.
    Main problem with UI is how shit it is for tracking something. Procs are a small buff and glowing button in the middle of three dozen other buttons (for example, RDM is terrible because proc of Verfire/Verstone is visible only a short time before you actually have to cast instead of Jolt). Tracking CDs seriously sucks compared to clean setups of WeakAuras. Tracking debuffs is terrible. Casting bar is tied to target's healthbar instead of nameplate or something else where you could easily see it.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  19. #99
    Herald of the Titans Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    Eh. You don't need to have people dropping like flies to have stories that emotionally resonate. The fact that I actually like Alphinaud - the embodiment of every trope that I hate in JRPGs - is a testament to their character building. A lot of modern storytelling substitutes killing a character off in a dramatic fashion to evoke a reaction from the audience with actually developing those characters so that their deaths actually mean something.

    Your very avatar is a prime example of a death that meant something. I felt that one. The same could not be said for any of WarCraft's characters, because any of their deaths would be a calculated effort to elicit a response.

    You cannot gain such resonance if you're killing off your cast for the sake of manipulating your audience.
    Totally agree, but also consider that with Y'shtola dying two times with neither of them sticking, her being in danger just causes me to have an eyeroll. Frankly I worry about the safety of the villains more than the heroes. Except for the twins and Tataru. And Matoya. The real Matoya.

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    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    Haurchefant, though? Moenbryda? I felt those - vicariously, because I saw how they affected the characters that I was closer to, but also on their own merits. And Emet-Selch? His narrative is one of the very few stories that will haunt me long after I last engaged with the medium in which it occurred.
    Let's be honest. Heavensward was fucking brutal. We lost Haurchefant, Ysayle and Papalymo. It wasn't game of thrones level bloodbath, but it drove home the point that we are fighting a war against terrible odds and our triumpf fealt hard earned.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Totally agree, but also consider that with Y'shtola dying two times with neither of them sticking, her being in danger just causes me to have an eyeroll. Frankly I worry about the safety of the villains more than the heroes. Except for the twins and Tataru. And Matoya. The real Matoya.

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    Let's be honest. Heavensward was fucking brutal. We lost Haurchefant, Ysayle and Papalymo. It wasn't game of thrones level bloodbath, but it drove home the point that we are fighting a war against terrible odds and our triumpf fealt hard earned.
    Yep. The only thing worse than a manipulative death is a manipulative fakeout.

    And those deaths were all logical and thematically appropriate. It wasn't simply because death existed that those moments hit hard - it was that those deaths were the culminations of dozens of hours of story and buildup.

    Varian's death was mentioned above. I felt nothing but disappointment. It was lazy. Manipulative. Death for the sake of death does not make for good drama.

    And in a game like FFXIV... these are all characters that I enjoy being around. If they're going to kill them off, it had best be for a good reason.

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