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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Deneios View Post
    You do know you can modify the ui like you would use bartender mod in wow. Everything is moveable and job gauges can be set to simplified so they wont take screen space.
    Which is fine, if you only want to move and resize things. Outside of those two options you're extremely limited in what you can do with the UI.

    Just to give an example; I'd like to seperate the HP and MP bars and have them stacked vertically on top of each other. That's just not an option, keeping them next to each other horizontally is the only configuration possible. They're the same UI element so you can't even toggle one off without turning off the other for Jobs that don't use MP.

    That's just not good enough in my opinion.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    The game isn't alt friendly, especially since you can legit be any Job in the game, therefore pinning your main to a standard above all others.

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    Kinda agree? But uhm, I think you mean Shadowbringers bud. Not Shadowlands lol
    Oops. When I talk about disappointments and shadow things my brain must naturally go to WoW.
    If you reply to me with a full essay I'm probably not going to bother reading it, sorry.

  3. #103
    The naming conventions and quest structure of the game are completely atypical and ruinous to western markets. I am not saying FF14 is a bad game (I love it!) or that it is not successful. But I am saying the word choice, naming schemes, translation, and the textual structure of the game inherently and will always keep it from a larger audience.

    I worked for Sony Online Entertainment and Frogster America; a subsidiary of Frogster Pictures before it merged with Gameforge (I was long gone by this point), for a time back in 06-08. My job was regional marketing management. Basically, I would look over translations of Everquest 2 or Runes of Magic and provide feedback with my team on how to best translate the games per region.

    I am 100% confident every actual issue with FF14 outside its Asian market comes down to the choice of someone saying, "Yea, let's call this mechanism a FATE. We'll call this class a Job and name it Astrologian. While we are at it, everyone okay with Levequests? Cool. Run it."

    Absolute death to reaching a broader audience. It ensured the game would always be niche.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    The naming conventions and quest structure of the game are completely atypical and ruinous to western markets. I am not saying FF14 is a bad game (I love it!) or that it is not successful. But I am saying the word choice, naming schemes, translation, and the textual structure of the game inherently and will always keep it from a larger audience.

    I worked for Sony Online Entertainment and Frogster America; a subsidiary of Frogster Pictures before it merged with Gameforge (I was long gone by this point), for a time back in 06-08. My job was regional marketing management. Basically, I would look over translations of Everquest 2 or Runes of Magic and provide feedback with my team on how to best translate the games per region.

    I am 100% confident every actual issue with FF14 outside its Asian market comes down to the choice of someone saying, "Yea, let's call this mechanism a FATE. We'll call this class a Job and name it Astrologian. While we are at it, everyone okay with Levequests? Cool. Run it."

    Absolute death to reaching a broader audience. It ensured the game would always be niche.
    I don't disagree with your premise, but I do disagree with your conclusion. It is the second-most successful entry into the MMO genre. That's hardly niche.

    But yeah, there is a ton of awkward phrasing. But jumping into a Final Fantasy game, or JRPGs in general? That's an expected quirk. Will it be a turn-off for certain Western audiences? Yeah, it's going to weird some people out. But a good number of people are here for that stuff. Also, as someone with a background in etymology, some of the dialogue is simply inspired.

  5. #105
    Titan HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    Oops. When I talk about disappointments and shadow things my brain must naturally go to WoW.
    LMAO! Come on now, SL ain't THAT bad.

  6. #106
    Herald of the Titans Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    Yep. The only thing worse than a manipulative death is a manipulative fakeout.

    And those deaths were all logical and thematically appropriate. It wasn't simply because death existed that those moments hit hard - it was that those deaths were the culminations of dozens of hours of story and buildup.

    Varian's death was mentioned above. I felt nothing but disappointment. It was lazy. Manipulative. Death for the sake of death does not make for good drama.

    And in a game like FFXIV... these are all characters that I enjoy being around. If they're going to kill them off, it had best be for a good reason.
    Would you consider establishing a villain as a credible threat a good reason? But yes, I do agree. Simply doing it for shock value (why hello evil Anduin haven't seen you come in) would be a disservice. It needs to be done well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    LMAO! Come on now, SL ain't THAT bad.
    Debatable, but very likely. However unfortunately for SL, ShB is just simply amazing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    They're the same UI element so you can't even toggle one off without turning off the other for Jobs that don't use MP.
    Every job uses MP. TP was removed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    ement. Basically, I would look over translations of Everquest 2 or Runes of Magic and provide feedback with my team on how to best translate the games per region.

    I am 100% confident every actual issue with FF14 outside its Asian market comes down to the choice of someone saying, "Yea, let's call this mechanism a FATE. We'll call this class a Job and name it Astrologian. While we are at it, everyone okay with Levequests? Cool. Run it."
    Dunno if FFXIV is your first Final Fantasy, but the job system was introduced in Final Fantasy III. Not VI marketed as III in the US, but the actual third game from 1990. As for job names, all of them beside Gunbreaker have been used before in the series. Traditions are important in Final Fantasy and especially so in XIV. It's like arguing that lighsaber is a stupid name because sabers are one handed swords with a curved blade. Or you know them being called knights even though the Jedi Order actually works like an order of monks instead. You have to roll with it.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Dunno if FFXIV is your first Final Fantasy, but the job system was introduced in Final Fantasy III. Not VI marketed as III in the US, but the actual third game from 1990. As for job names, all of them beside Gunbreaker have been used before in the series. Traditions are important in Final Fantasy and especially so in XIV. It's like arguing that lighsaber is a stupid name because sabers are one handed swords with a curved blade. Or you know them being called knights even though the Jedi Order actually works like an order of monks instead. You have to roll with it.
    It's not. I have played nearly every game Squaresoft, Enix and Square Enix have ever released. I am well versed in the history of these games.

    And no, it's not like calling a lightsaber a stupid name. A lightsaber is a mass-market quantity. People know it popularly, more so than those who know what an actual saber is. When you print Lightsaber, there is a mass-market communicative idea of what it is and what it does.

    When you advertise, "GUNBREAKER JOB ADDED TO FINAL FANTASY 14; A REALM REBORN!" that despite accuracy, is appealing to a niche market. There is an absolute ceiling to traditions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    I don't disagree with your premise, but I do disagree with your conclusion. It is the second-most successful entry into the MMO genre. That's hardly niche.
    It is. MMORPGs are already a small genre relatively speaking. So you are splitting a small pool already. As I said above, I am not saying FF14 is unsuccessful or a poor game. It's not a mass-market game, however. What is sometimes called, "Failing to get the 2nd million".

    SE can get that second million with the main FF series, easily. But their MMORPG offerings in 11/14 will never be such.

    But jumping into a Final Fantasy game, or JRPGs in general? That's an expected quirk. Will it be a turn-off for certain Western audiences? Yeah, it's going to weird some people out. But a good number of people are here for that stuff.
    All true. All niche. And the exact result of such is what you get in FF14. Or the Yakuza series, to name another quirky yet excellent game series in another genre, as an example.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Would you consider establishing a villain as a credible threat a good reason?
    Sure. But I find that to be exceedingly boring and trite. Take Zenos for example... I just don't care about that guy, at all. He's a credible threat, but a one-note character that I have no attachment to. You can even write villains like him that you "love to hate," but there is nothing about his character that is relatable or otherwise interesting. The only logical conclusion for such a character is that he dies in battle. And Zenos fulfilled that. And that's it. There was no reaction from me to that death. I didn't mourn him, as his character was boring. I didn't celebrate, as his character essentially only existed to die. All that being said... his subsequent resurrection and every cutscene featuring him only had me rolling my eyes. Again, there is no drama there because of how boring his character is, dramatically. And how disconnected. At this point, the only reaction a second death would elicit from me would be a sigh of relief.

    All that being said... I do have faith in FFXIV's writers. I suspect that, by the end of Endwalker, I will have an appreciation for Zenos that I would not have imagined possible. As I mentioned before, if they can make me like the embodiment of every JRPG trope that annoys me in Alphinaud, they can do anything. They did something quite similar with the Warrior of Darkness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    It's not. I have played nearly every game Squaresoft, Enix and Square Enix have ever released. I am well versed in the history of these games.

    And no, it's not like calling a lightsaber a stupid name. A lightsaber is a mass-market quantity. People know it popularly, more so than those who know what an actual saber is. When you print Lightsaber, there is a mass-market communicative idea of what it is and what it does.

    When you advertise, "GUNBREAKER JOB ADDED TO FINAL FANTASY 14; A REALM REBORN!" that despite accuracy, is appealing to a niche market. There is an absolute ceiling to traditions.

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    It is. MMORPGs are already a small genre relatively speaking. So you are splitting a small pool already. As I said above, I am not saying FF14 is unsuccessful or a poor game. It's not a mass-market game, however. What is sometimes called, "Failing to get the 2nd million".

    SE can get that second million with the main FF series, easily. But their MMORPG offerings in 11/14 will never be such.

    All true. All niche. And the exact result of such is what you get in FF14. Or the Yakuza series, to name another quirky yet excellent game series in another genre, as an example.
    I mean... video games themselves are niche if you're comparing engagement with them to the population of the world. WoW itself is niche if you're speaking about the video game market as a whole. But we're on an forum for an MMO game, so the context of this discussion needs to be taken into account. Apologies for my confusion on how broadly you are applying the term.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    I mean... video games themselves are niche if you're comparing engagement with them to the population of the world.
    I was talking within the games market. I apologize if that was unclear and I can understand why because the lightsaber thing was brought up. As I said (hopefully clearer this time) earlier, within the games market MMORPGs are a niche and FF14 is a niche of a niche.

    I think FF14 is an excellent game. FF14's success thus far is partly based on the quality of the game relative to many other genre offerings. The brand is a factor as well as I believe you pointed out too. Though the game I think will likely never grow beyond its current success (all products intend growth) due to the specific translation and textual choices made in the game; it has the effect of making the game feel obtuse and without reference to more popular vernacular and conceptions within and outside the gaming market as well.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I was talking within the games market. I apologize if that was unclear and I can understand why because the lightsaber thing was brought up. As I said (hopefully clearer this time) earlier, within the games market MMORPGs are a niche and FF14 is a niche of a niche.

    I think FF14 is an excellent game. FF14's success thus far is partly based on the quality of the game relative to many other genre offerings. The brand is a factor as well as I believe you pointed out too. Though the game I think will likely never grow beyond its current success (all products intend growth) due to the specific translation and textual choices made in the game; it has the effect of making the game feel obtuse and without reference to more popular vernacular and conceptions within and outside the gaming market as well.
    I mean, there's growth appropriate to the product, then there's widespread, unprecedented success. I suspect that FFXIV is much more successful than it was initially projected to be (even if it did take a reinvention). I just think it unfair to critique a game based on criterion that it inherently never set out to excel by.

    It's like deriding a Little League player's successes because the NFL exists. They were never meant to be compared.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    I mean, there's growth appropriate to the product, then there's widespread, unprecedented success. I suspect that FFXIV is much more successful than it was initially projected to be (even if it did take a reinvention). I just think it unfair to critique a game based on criterion that it inherently never set out to excel by.
    That's not true. It might be they exceeded their projections. But FF14 is a game and it competes with all games on the market. One has every right to compare it within the genre and within the medium.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  12. #112
    My problem is the combat in wow feels more precise and crisp. FF14 does a good job of making fun content that isn't "kill stuff". Their crafting system is amazing, I just wish it mattered more.

  13. #113
    Honestly, the biggest and most glaring issue to me: The UI.

    They have TONS of systems built into the UI, and a majority of them almost never see use. The Shared Fate window takes up space on the UI menus, but you can 100% ignore it past patch 1 of the expansion in 90% of cases. The player window now has over 15 options on it.

    Then there's a couple clunky ways that spells function - Like stances falling off when you sync just in case you might lose the skill leveling down (which doesn't happen anymore, as you get tank stance before any instances...) and my chocobo losing dance partner because I mounted up, and it TECHNICALLY isn't in the party list anymore and therefore can't have my dance partner carry over...

    Would be nice if these could be fixed eventually. I get it's the way their game functions at it's core, but man, that would be priority #1 for me now 3 expansions down the line - Some QOL improvements would be VERY much appreciated.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  14. #114
    Herald of the Titans The Oblivion's Avatar
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    i have 2 main problems,

    dps job balancing is horrific
    raids are short

  15. #115
    I only played in the original zones (afaik) of the game, and I have a huge problem with the way they are designed : they feel small, mainly because they are enclosed inside natural barriers (moutains, cliffs, ...). And there are a LOT of loading screens, especially in main cities.
    As a result, I don't really feel like I'm in a believable world in which I can immerse myself, I just feel like I'm in a poorly structured video game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garybear View Post
    My problem is the combat in wow feels more precise and crisp.
    And that is my other main gripe with the game. Of all the MMOs I've played, WoW has always been the one with the most reactive and engaging gameplay. In FFXIV, my character seems to "lag" all the time, combat is sluggish and not very fun (imo).
    I really like the gameplay mechanics though, they are much deeper than what we have in WoW.
    Last edited by -Multani-; 2021-02-26 at 11:01 PM.

  16. #116
    Titan HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    "Debatable, but very likely. However unfortunately for SL, ShB is just simply amazing." Don't see how that's relevant. I'm allowed to play both and have fun with the both of em, yeah? lol

    All I said was that SL wasn't as bad as that guy claimed it was.

  17. #117
    Herald of the Titans Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garybear View Post
    My problem is the combat in wow feels more precise and crisp. FF14 does a good job of making fun content that isn't "kill stuff". Their crafting system is amazing, I just wish it mattered more.
    The intend was to make it more tactical and closer to the turn based feel of the old school games. You ease into your rotation and while you do that you move based on enemy ability markers and think of how best to use your oGCD abilities. Wether it functions as intended is a different matter, but the aim was a completely different feel to WoW. Which is a good thing if you ask me. The more you try to be like WoW the least likely your success is. WoW is the best at being WoW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    All I said was that SL wasn't as bad as that guy claimed it was.
    To which I replied that a game doesn't have to be bad to be worse than Shadowbringers. While covid lead to delays and there are plenty of people who think ShB is light on content it also set a new benchmark for worldbuilding and story not for the MMO genre but gaming in general.

  18. #118
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    The Banking system. The whole Retainer system being combined with banking sucks ass.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    The intend was to make it more tactical and closer to the turn based feel of the old school games.
    Yeah, maybe in 1.0 it was. From ARR onward it's straightforward unchanging rotation that was only simplified over the years.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  20. #120
    Herald of the Titans Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    Yeah, maybe in 1.0 it was. From ARR onward it's straightforward unchanging rotation that was only simplified over the years.
    Sadly yes. We used to have DPS stances for healers and tank rotation, but raiders whined that what is fun for 90/ó% of the gamers makes it way too hard in Savange raids so the good stuff had to be pruned. Really glad Yoshie-P is making a single player game as well where nonsense like meta and balance are a non issue.

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