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  1. #641
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    You must not go there as often as I do. I'm sure you'll say you go there often.

    Lindon was pontificating. And yes, I know what that word means. Nowhere did I say "it's universal fact."
    Superfluous: being more than is sufficient or required; excessive.
    Nothing about what Lindon said was superfluous. Also, I go there plenty. I think you just see the couple of bad eggs and focus on them because it proves your point rather than looking at the community as a whole.

  2. #642
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Superfluous: being more than is sufficient or required; excessive.
    Nothing about what Lindon said was superfluous. Also, I go there plenty. I think you just see the couple of bad eggs and focus on them because it proves your point rather than looking at the community as a whole.
    I'm not going to play word gymnastics with anyone who googles a word just to see what it means and isn't sure if it's implied correctly. That's not what this topic is about.

    Gaslighting is not going to make this conversation go anywhere. You're welcome to believe whatever you want. I'm not here to change your mind.

  3. #643
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    I'm not going to play word gymnastics with anyone who googles a word just to see what it means and isn't sure if it's implied correctly. That's not what this topic is about.

    Gaslighting is not going to make this conversation go anywhere. You're welcome to believe whatever you want. I'm not here to change your mind.
    So it's mental gymnastics because I pointed out you used an utterly wrong word to try and trivialize someone's point instead of actually addressing it? No that's the REAL gymnastics. Furthermore, you accuse me of gaslighting but it's blatantly clear you don't know what that word means either. I didn't call you crazy. I'm saying based on the language of your posts it's clear you go out of your way to ONLY focus on the negative players and completely disregard everyone that is telling you that your experience is isolated and anecdotal since pretty much nobody is agreeing with you.

  4. #644
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    So it's mental gymnastics because I pointed out you used an utterly wrong word to try and trivialize someone's point instead of actually addressing it? No that's the REAL gymnastics. Furthermore, you accuse me of gaslighting but it's blatantly clear you don't know what that word means either. I didn't call you crazy. I'm saying based on the language of your posts it's clear you go out of your way to ONLY focus on the negative players and completely disregard everyone that is telling you that your experience is isolated and anecdotal since pretty much nobody is agreeing with you.
    Oh geez. It's WORD gymnastics because you do not know what the word means. You literally copied/pasted the first definition googles gives you, which concludes that you did not know what it meant in the first place. People who read a definition and think they know what it means but really don't is common. You're using that to get off topic.

    And now you're trying to say I don't know what gaslighting is and creating a strawman. Our conversations has come to an end.

  5. #645
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    Please don't be superfluous.
    What? You have nothing to go on. All you've ever said are things along the line of "this dude told me" and "people are mean to me ingame".

    Just looking at the responses here it seems like the consensus is that the FFXIV community is among the best.

    Please don't be ignorant.

  6. #646
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindon View Post
    What? You have nothing to go on. All you've ever said are things along the line of "this dude told me" and "people are mean to me ingame".

    Just looking at the responses here it seems like the consensus is that the FFXIV community is among the best.

    Please don't be ignorant.
    I have plenty to go on.

    Could you please quote where I said those things? I was trying to use the search function to find them and it wasn't yielding results.

  7. #647
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    Oh geez. It's WORD gymnastics because you do not know what the word means. You literally copied/pasted the first definition googles gives you, which concludes that you did not know what it meant in the first place. People who read a definition and think they know what it means but really don't is common. You're using that to get off topic.

    And now you're trying to say I don't know what gaslighting is and creating a strawman. Our conversations has come to an end.
    The word superfluous means excessive. Every form of the definition states that. But people on these forums typically refuse to accept comments like that so I supply the actual definition to avoid people screaming "NUH UH!!" I'm not getting off topic. I pointing out your comments are dishonest because instead of addressing the points put forward, you make false accusations.

    And you DON'T know what gaslighting means. Much like what you did with Lindon, you are turning to personal attacks instead of addressing the point I made. Your comments are 100% anecdotal but you spout it like it's a universal fact when it absolutely is not. You have been dishonest and any time someone has pointed out a flaw in your comments, you turn to personal attacks instead of discussing the point made.

    So many of your comments boil down to "dude, trust me" when saying negative things about the FFXIV community.

  8. #648
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    I have plenty to go on.

    Could you please quote where I said those things? I was trying to use the search function to find them and it wasn't yielding results.
    Good god man. You previously talked about word gymnastics and people not understanding what words mean and now you're quite obviously misinterpreting or not understanding what is being written.

    Still you have nothing to go on. You are the only person that's been spouting the "FFXIV community bad" recently without providing any examples. All you've done is responding without providing anything.

  9. #649
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindon View Post
    Good god man. You previously talked about word gymnastics and people not understanding what words mean and now you're quite obviously misinterpreting or not understanding what is being written.

    Still you have nothing to go on. You are the only person that's been spouting the "FFXIV community bad" recently without providing any examples. All you've done is responding without providing anything.
    In my previous response to you, I asked if you could quote me where I said "this dude told me" and "people are mean to me ingame".

    Are you able to do so? I would greatly appreciate it.

  10. #650
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    In my previous response to you, I asked if you could quote me where I said "this dude told me" and "people are mean to me ingame".

    Are you able to do so? I would greatly appreciate it.
    Once again, you're quite clearly showing your inability to understand what is being conveyed to you through the written word.

    Then again there's no real reason to continue a conversation where the majority already know that you're obviously wrong.

  11. #651
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindon View Post
    Once again, you're quite clearly showing your inability to understand what is being conveyed to you through the written word.

    Then again there's no real reason to continue a conversation where the majority already know that you're obviously wrong.
    Buddy, I'm asking for your help. Where did I say those 2 things? I wanted to clarify or go back and edit the error out of those posts.

    Now, if you were creating a straw man, then that's something else we can discuss.

  12. #652
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindon View Post
    Once again, you're quite clearly showing your inability to understand what is being conveyed to you through the written word.

    Then again there's no real reason to continue a conversation where the majority already know that you're obviously wrong.
    Honestly, don't bother. He is clearly not interested in discussing things with anyone who disagrees with him. Notice how I pointed out the blatant flaws in everything he's said and just started ignoring me.

  13. #653
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Honestly, don't bother. He is clearly not interested in discussing things with anyone who disagrees with him. Notice how I pointed out the blatant flaws in everything he's said and just started ignoring me.
    I kind of had that hunch when reading up the last couple of pages but I guess I got baited into it.

  14. #654
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    I honestly have no idea. I think the healer only queued as healer because they could so they were likely someone who left WoW to play FF XIV. Because people do that in WoW CONSTANTLY.
    Really? I've actually never seen this in EITHER game 8 years of FF14 and 15+ of WoW. Like they queue up as a role and then switch and leave the party without that role?

    People don't get banned from the OF unless they are pretty toxic. Based on your comments and how you phrase things, I'd say you come as a really toxic and elitist player.
    That's actually not entirely true and a lot of people will attest to that. The forums are significantly more ban happy than the actual game is.

    I'm actually more curious what comments I said and which phrases specifically liken me to being toxic? Is it because we have opposing viewpoints you're labeling me as such? Would you calling me a "toxic elitist" qualify as a toxic statement in and of itself ("extremely harsh, malicious or harmful")?

    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    1) No it isn't. It's your decision on them not being good enough for your group. Even if they are good enough, majority rules. However, if you add in harassing or berating type comments then yes it is harmful.

    2) It depends on the context of what you communicate. Asking someone if they'll do something is fine. They may or they may not. Sometimes people are defensive because they don't want unsolicited advice or comments. They may be in their own comfort zone and not want to. They're not breaking any rules other than not playing to your standard. That said, again, if majority rules, they can be removed.

    3) Just like 2, it depends on the context. Asking if they can DPS too is perfectly fine. If they do not respond and the vote is successful, it's fine. Some people are not going to respond. I play on PS5 with a controller and replying to stuff on the fly can be quite cumbersome. I can enter comments quickly (in my opinion) yet its still waaaay slower than a keyboard.
    Glad we agree on that.

    I can see someone seeing "come on man" as offensive. Is it honestly necessary? "Don't run away with the stack marker" is direct, to the point and does not add small implications that someone is incompetent. No need to say unnecessary things.
    I've actually had this discussion a lot and I'm not sure the robotic bare minimum is the most successful approach, but I have learned to recognize that treat people the way you want to be treated is not actually a failsafe statement. For instance, if I was to be kicked I would want to know why other players didn't want to play with me so that I could internalize and decide if I was ok with it or needed to change.

    I respectfully disagree that saying come on man is offensive. Speaking personally I find that people prefer a little personality when speaking to them in tense situations. Your statement while more succinct also is very abrupt and I've personally found that people in FF14 DO NOT respond well to that type of thing. IMHO of course.

    Do carries happen? Sure they do. And sometimes, there is a very logical explanation. In your case, we only have your side.
    Examples of logical explanations to justify nearly 33% of the players in those duties doing less than the bare minimum? Before we come at my character I'm pretty well known around here for fair and honest discussion no matter how it paints me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    That...... sounds like how he should be pulling? dungeons these days in xiv are literally
    -everyone pops sprint
    -tank pulls everything
    -aoe down

    doesnt matter if he LOSes you in the process as he wouldnt be getting hit while sprinting anyway
    Yeah I'm also wondering about that too lol...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    My experiences exactly. I've told people that it was my first time tanking a dungeon in FFXIV and typically always get comments like "It's cool. Just take your time. It's not a race " Whereas in WoW, if you say you're tanking for the first time, you're getting kicked 9 times out of 10.
    9/10 seems awfully a lot like hyperbole. I can't say I've ever had anyone give me a hard time over it in WoW, and I think I've seen it like once in FF14 so it can't be that common. I'd be open to anyone with a WoW sub streaming the experiment. I'm currently unsubbed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Uhmmm....helping the other half of the party? I can't run, heal and apply dots at the same time. And even if I'm too slow. I'm fairly certain as a party leader you have to adjust to the party speed. As a tank I NEVER pull unless I have everyone behind me.
    I still don't understand. Can you clarify what was actually happening with more specifics? The story still doesn't quite make sense to me as a PLD main.

  15. #655
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Really? I've actually never seen this in EITHER game 8 years of FF14 and 15+ of WoW. Like they queue up as a role and then switch and leave the party without that role?



    That's actually not entirely true and a lot of people will attest to that. The forums are significantly more ban happy than the actual game is.

    I'm actually more curious what comments I said and which phrases specifically liken me to being toxic? Is it because we have opposing viewpoints you're labeling me as such? Would you calling me a "toxic elitist" qualify as a toxic statement in and of itself ("extremely harsh, malicious or harmful")?



    Glad we agree on that.



    I've actually had this discussion a lot and I'm not sure the robotic bare minimum is the most successful approach, but I have learned to recognize that treat people the way you want to be treated is not actually a failsafe statement. For instance, if I was to be kicked I would want to know why other players didn't want to play with me so that I could internalize and decide if I was ok with it or needed to change.

    I respectfully disagree that saying come on man is offensive. Speaking personally I find that people prefer a little personality when speaking to them in tense situations. Your statement while more succinct also is very abrupt and I've personally found that people in FF14 DO NOT respond well to that type of thing. IMHO of course.



    Examples of logical explanations to justify nearly 33% of the players in those duties doing less than the bare minimum? Before we come at my character I'm pretty well known around here for fair and honest discussion no matter how it paints me.



    Yeah I'm also wondering about that too lol...



    9/10 seems awfully a lot like hyperbole. I can't say I've ever had anyone give me a hard time over it in WoW, and I think I've seen it like once in FF14 so it can't be that common. I'd be open to anyone with a WoW sub streaming the experiment. I'm currently unsubbed.



    I still don't understand. Can you clarify what was actually happening with more specifics? The story still doesn't quite make sense to me as a PLD main.
    I legitimately can't even count the number of times in WoW where a person will queue as a role just for quick queues. Example: a paladin will queue as a tank but will be in ret spec for the whole dungeon/lfr. Or a shaman queues as heals but is in elemental/enhancement. It happens SO often. I'm legitimately surprised you haven't seen it much.

  16. #656
    Scarab Lord Polybius's Avatar
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    The rigidity of player movement and combat, bright particle effects, and lack of chat bubbles. Communities figure themselves out so player attitude matters little. You won't get a lot of content in any game nowadays, it takes longer to polish as computer science advances.

  17. #657
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    That's actually not entirely true and a lot of people will attest to that. The forums are significantly more ban happy than the actual game is.
    Would you mind pointing to some examples of that then because I've never seen that. If it's in fact the truth and as common as you say then surely there should exist a lot of evidence.

  18. #658
    Every 4.7 seconds your character is forced into some garbage "cut scene".

    Extremely boring end game gearing.

    Msq are the digital equivalent of aids.

    The fact that whwn doing dailies 99% of the time you lose your fun abilities and stuck with trash.

    Gameplay in endgame though is solid. Getting there is a massive fucking wall.

  19. #659
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    I notice most of the people trying to say FFXIV is bad are using examples of stuff that happens constantly in WoW rather than examples that happen frequently in FF. As a tank, the only group I've come across that was terrible was the one example I gave. Otherwise, people are pretty reasonable.
    Oh I'm not saying it is bad. I have normally very good experiences with the community. I'm just acknowledging that yes, these can and do occur. But as you said these are infrequent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post


    I still don't understand. Can you clarify what was actually happening with more specifics? The story still doesn't quite make sense to me as a PLD main.
    He never waited for the party just ran like a madman which was annoying as hell as we were in Tam-Tara with quite a lot of corners that, you know, break line of sight. Nobody died, but it did make my job considerably harder. I remember checking his details to make sure he is new or not and being shocked when it turned out he had everything at 80.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    Would you mind pointing to some examples of that then because I've never seen that. If it's in fact the truth and as common as you say then surely there should exist a lot of evidence.
    Me for example. I have a perma ban on the official forums. First offense as well. We were theorycrafting about the last zone of Shadowbringers. Obviously we didn't know about the Tempest. One guy suggested Garlemald. I replied that if the whole empire would be turned into a single zone [Forum poster who is a huge fan of Garlean Lore] Would put SE HQ to the torch.

    Got a weekly ban that was extended to be a perma ban while the week was going on.

  20. #660
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    I've actually had this discussion a lot and I'm not sure the robotic bare minimum is the most successful approach, but I have learned to recognize that treat people the way you want to be treated is not actually a failsafe statement. For instance, if I was to be kicked I would want to know why other players didn't want to play with me so that I could internalize and decide if I was ok with it or needed to change.
    I'm not insisting that the absolute bare minimum is always the golden ticket. I'm stating that in our zeal, we tend to add comments that are frankly not necessary.

    Treating people as you want to be... maybe... but I advocate for at least being respectful (wishful thinking for many).

    It's a slippery slope when someone gets kicked. Some wish they knew why but in some cases, it's more effort than it's worth. A guy hears every reason why he just didn't fit in but insists he was or has an excuse for everything. If someone is just not working out, I'm not going to be rude to them, I'll just initiate a vote. I don't want to add an additional 5-10 minutes in a (sometimes) inevitable pissing contest. Especially in easy dungeons, it's just not worth the effort.

    I respectfully disagree that saying come on man is offensive. Speaking personally I find that people prefer a little personality when speaking to them in tense situations. Your statement while more succinct also is very abrupt and I've personally found that people in FF14 DO NOT respond well to that type of thing. IMHO of course.
    I didn't say it was, I said I can see how someone may perceive it that way. I'm a very objective person. It goes along with what I do for a living. We never know what's fully going on with the guys on the other end of the wire. Good example was this game's predecessor, I befriended a guy who was often told "come on man" "hurry up..." "be faster". He one day had time to tell me that he's partially paralyzed and it hinders his reaction times. So he is not able to get any better than he already was. Though this is just one example. From their perspective, seeing "you need to do this too" may seem frustrating as it is but added comments may only exacerbate things.

    Examples of logical explanations to justify nearly 33% of the players in those duties doing less than the bare minimum? Before we come at my character I'm pretty well known around here for fair and honest discussion no matter how it paints me.
    It all depends. I'm not nor am I going to insinuate that there is something you're not telling us because I have no reason to believe you're dishonest. But there is always 2 sides to every story. For all I know, that could be some anomaly or outlier.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Got a weekly ban that was extended to be a perma ban while the week was going on.
    WoW and FFXIV official forum moderators are to be taken with a HUGE grain of salt. I witnessed someone get a perma ban in the FFXIV forums for reporting someone for harassment. It appears as if they banned him by mistake instead of the instigator and wouldn't reply to his appeals.

    I have inside info about WoW's official forum moderators which is why I personally never take them seriously. Their blues are sometimes something to be desired as well. I've debunked one of them in the CS forum while defending another poster who was seeking help.

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