What problems do you have with Final Fantasy 14?

[Soikona]

Well it is an option. The worst feature of male highlanders is the complete lack of brow :P

I would say that Hrothgars are pretty manly.

Maybe, I only ever play humans :-P cat people are not my thing. Except for GW2. The charr are just badass.

[justandulas]

While i agree to some extent what is wrong with mens caring about theyr look?

In FF, at least from 7 onwards we get male protagonist which fall into those categories. Cloud, Squall, Zidane, Tidus, Noctis are all boysband lookalike. I would say that FF14 fits right in, hell you can at least make your character with a beard, which is like, unheard off.

I’m not trying to look like a metrosexual fashion model wearing an adventurers summer brand of clothes or whatever.

Ff7 has a little boy band look, but it also has plenty of standard looks like Barrett

Even the boy band ff15 had standard looking characters other than 1-3 characters.

Ff14 takes it off the rails tho imo in a feminine and dainty art style. Way more so than any other ff game

That’s great to those who like it, and it is a selling point to some... but for me? I can’t stand it. Couldn’t stand wildstar either for the same Disney channel look

I prefer a darker aesthetic, like eso

[Aliven]

I’m not trying to look like a metrosexual fashion model wearing an adventurers summer brand of clothes or whatever.

Ff7 has a little boy band look, but it also has plenty of standard looks like Barrett

Even the boy band ff15 had standard looking characters other than 1-3 characters.

Ff14 takes it off the rails tho imo in a feminine and dainty art style. Way more so than any other ff game

That’s great to those who like it, and it is a selling point to some... but for me? I can’t stand it. Couldn’t stand wildstar either for the same Disney channel look

I prefer a darker aesthetic, like eso

For me the every single one of protagonists in FF series looks the same. Young, slender, no facial hair boy. And it is every single one. So FF14 is standard in that regard.

Maybe im just tired of trope of grim badass who is tortured soul or something :P

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Maybe, I only ever play humans :-P cat people are not my thing. Except for GW2. The charr are just badass.

Charrs are best race ever created IMO.

[Wrecktangle]

First off, did the person making a mistake that many times get directions or were they just expected to know what they were doing? If instead of saying to the person after they mess up 2 times "Hey do you know the mechanics?" you just wait until they mess up 5 times then kick them? That's toxic as fuck. Whether it's a learning group or not. It's about not being a jerk to people. It takes two seconds to ask someone if they know the fight. If they say yes and screw up in the same way AGAIN? Then you kick them because they are absolutely a liar and disrespectful of everyone's time.

I can't tell if there's a language barrier or if you're deliberately not answering my questions/reading my posts?

So I'll ask again, how long have you been playing, what level are you and what is your main?

As for the second point about the community, I don't believe you actually play WoW if you're saying that in earnest. The official forums are filled with elitists. These forums are full of them. In game chats are full of them. I have NEVER come across a raider who didn't belittle people every chance they got. For fuck's sake, people will shame you for your dps IN LEVELING DUNGEONS IN WOW. There is no community I have personally come across that is more toxic than WoW.

I'm a raider, my friends are raiders, I have successfully pugged Mythic raids, Mythic + all without seeing people belittle people, and NO ONE has belittled me.

As for your 24 man story, I really REALLY don't believe you. I've seen situations like that where someone gets called out for being afk and then when they do it again, nobody says anything. They just boot the person. If someone called you out for being afk in chat, nobody is going to mention damage meters because damage meters weren't posted. And guess what? The people accusing the people of damage meters should have been reported because they were harassing a player that didn't even post meters.

I have absolutely no reason to lie. I'm sorry my experiences don't support your agenda.

There's a pretty big difference between a dungeon boss and E12 though.

Eh, honestly not really. As a PLD they're both pretty soloable as well as a lot of past expansion trials/raids.

And no, that’s not part of being an adult. Being an adult is about learning to compose yourself in a mature manner.

Actually**** "Being an adult is about learning to compose yourself in a mature manner after a failure/challenge." Anyone can do it easily when things are easy, it's when it's hard that we see who the adult is and isn't.

[VinceVega]

From psychologicall standpoint the best way to influence people in games is not to talk to them but lead by example, be patient for their mistakes and provide feedback WHEN ASKED for it.

So if i play with someone who plays obviously horrible. Doing nearly non existend dmg (which of course i don't know because who uses a dmg meter in FF14) and dying/failing left and right and still think he is godsend.... i just have to accept that, wipe on and have to wait until he suddenly recognizes that maybe he is not thaaaat good of a player as he thinks?
How is he supposed to now? There are no indicators for him anywhere that he is doing anything wrong in the first place. If i am bad at something i hope people tell me. Because if i don't change i obviously am not aware that i am doing anything wrong.
If i don't care i also won't care people telling me that.

How low of a selfesteem does someone need to have to be actully offended for someone trying to give tips or help in getting better?

[Necromantic]

Actually**** "Being an adult is about learning to compose yourself in a mature manner after a failure/challenge." Anyone can do it easily when things are easy, it's when it's hard that we see who the adult is and isn't.

What are the asterisks for?

I didn't specify when being an adult means composing yourself because it's all about composing yourself at all times. Whether it's after a failure, teaching someone, etc.

[ippollite]

Two pieces of advice: 1. Use a dps meter if you like. Theres no barrier to doing so. Just dont crap on sprouts for not doing max deeps. The rotations are super complicated. I really want to level my ninja, but honestly, its a LOT to remember. Im going through the levels as a whm precisely because its easier (even if it appears to be more difficult on the face of it). Dps seems more demanding (from my perspective). Id hate to be the person messing up their 48 step rotation. Id much rather heal like a headless chicken and dps with my two button rotation when i can.

2. Find a static and roll with them. If your aim is anything beyond the lfr universe of story quests, (savage, extreme, ultimate), dont roulette. Roulette is for players like me who dont have a clue and need a carry. Dont get me wrong, its also for experienced players who want to gear up or learn a new job, but its not for progression.

[justandulas]

For me the every single one of protagonists in FF series looks the same. Young, slender, no facial hair boy. And it is every single one. So FF14 is standard in that regard.

Maybe im just tired of trope of grim badass who is tortured soul or something :P

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Charrs are best race ever created IMO.

To some extent, what you say is true about the FF protagonist role devolving into a boring generic JRPG cliche, but some of it is offset by the world itself having darker characters, environments, worlds, etc....

In ff14, you don't have that luxury because you're surrounded by other characters which makes everything just look that much daintier and more fem. When it's just 1 character in a party, you can ignore it, but when it's every character in the entire world, the world itself becomes that.

If there was more variety of character creation, like ESO, that offered more mature races, then it wouldn't be so bad but as it stands every character is either a fashion model, a child, or a furry.

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How in the world is Barrett a "standard look"? If you want to talk about over-the-top character designs...

No wonder you think everything is "feminine" if Barrett is your "standard human".

I do consider Barrett more normal (other than gun arm) than your traditional boyband inspired pop singer looking characters.

[Aliven]

So if i play with someone who plays obviously horrible. Doing nearly non existend dmg (which of course i don't know because who uses a dmg meter in FF14) and dying/failing left and right and still think he is godsend.... i just have to accept that, wipe on and have to wait until he suddenly recognizes that maybe he is not thaaaat good of a player as he thinks?
How is he supposed to now? There are no indicators for him anywhere that he is doing anything wrong in the first place. If i am bad at something i hope people tell me. Because if i don't change i obviously am not aware that i am doing anything wrong.
If i don't care i also won't care people telling me that.

How low of a selfesteem does someone need to have to be actully offended for someone trying to give tips or help in getting better?

If he want to improve he will. If he dont want/dont care are you trully think he will care what you have to say? If he want, he would ask. Simple as that.

There are plenty of indicators, mostly taking excesive damage or flat out dying. Big signal something went wrong.

[Maljinwo]

I think i would like it, if
2. Tone down these ridicioulus spell effects. What is up with that? Does anyone actually enjoy that?


Edit: Give me an option to make every last Lalafell invisible.... whoever designed these things has serious issues...

You can reduce your own, party or all spell effects on the settings. Which to me is mandatory in group content because, fuck me, every character on screen shooting dbz lasers everywhere is distracting.

Also, lalafell make great punting practice

[Katchii]

Who said anything about hard? Normal and heroic dungeons aren't hard at all in WoW, but you still will meet people that waste the time of the 4 others in the group.
In WoW the time and effort of the majority is respected, because Blizzard provides you with the tool of getting rid of toxic people.
In FFXIV the time and effot of the majority isn't respected, because the developer protects the toxic people.

You're the toxic one in this equation, at the moment.

Depending on the reasoning for why someone is not performing, they are not toxic. Just because someone is not performing to your standard does not make them toxic. If they are doing it intentionally, THAT is toxic, and FFXIV does have a valid way to get rid of those people via the vote kick option just like WoW does because that could be considered harassment.

If it was a single player game then how anyone plays it is completely irrelevant, but this is a multi-player game and the "philosophical question" here is:
Do I want to play a game doesn't stop you from removing people that don't respect the time of their fellow gamer or do I want to play a game that actively protects people that waste other people's time.

You're overblowing the issue here.

People not performing to your standard are not intentionally wasting other people's time, they're doing their best, usually. As I said earlier, if they're intentionaly doing it, that's harassment and you can kick them for it, just like in WoW.

One can say that WoW's approach leads to a pressure to become better, while FFXIV leads to a pressure to become as bad as the lowest common denominator.

This is nonsense, or at best, pure speculation on your part.

Both approaches have their consequences in-game, but I for one know what I prefer.
And competitive people that consider starting playing FFXIV should know what game entails.

This is complete projection.

[Aliven]

To some extent, what you say is true about the FF protagonist role devolving into a boring generic JRPG cliche, but some of it is offset by the world itself having darker characters, environments, worlds, etc....

In ff14, you don't have that luxury because you're surrounded by other characters which makes everything just look that much daintier and more fem. When it's just 1 character in a party, you can ignore it, but when it's every character in the entire world, the world itself becomes that.

If there was more variety of character creation, like ESO, that offered more mature races, then it wouldn't be so bad but as it stands every character is either a fashion model, a child, or a furry.

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I do consider Barrett more normal (other than gun arm) than your traditional boyband inspired pop singer looking characters.

Which is basically "pick your poison". Im tired of the same generic cliche of thinking being grim, unshaved, muscular is somehow identified as masculinity...

In ff8 for instance we have Zell and Cowboy guy, both are boysbands. In FF9 we have fox lancer, fat cook, bulky knight. I did not play 10 and 15 extensively but 15 is full on boysband. Literally nearly ;P So, for me, the ff14 is the same. Generic ff visually.

I, for once, think ESO character creator is boring. You have so much options and yet everyone looks the same, with best customization for argonians, catpeople and wood elves.

And Barrett is like... Very, very over the top parody of black person seen from a perspective of somebody who never meet black person but saw some rasist talk about them :P

[justandulas]

Which is basically "pick your poison". Im tired of the same generic cliche of thinking being grim, unshaved, muscular is somehow identified as masculinity...

In ff8 for instance we have Zell and Cowboy guy, both are boysbands. In FF9 we have fox lancer, fat cook, bulky knight. I did not play 10 and 15 extensively but 15 is full on boysband. Literally nearly ;P So, for me, the ff14 is the same. Generic ff visually.

I, for once, think ESO character creator is boring. You have so much options and yet everyone looks the same, with best customization for argonians, catpeople and wood elves.

And Barrett is like... Very, very over the top parody of black person seen from a perspective of somebody who never meet black person but saw some rasist talk about them :P

Which is why i said it was a subjective complaint. Some people love the art style, and i understand why, but i prefer a darker aesthetic like ESO. To each their own.

there's a lot about FF i do like or admire. I admire the dev passion, i love their housing (and even how competitive it is), and i ADORE the sound and music. Like, really adore. The music design is so great, my mounts even have their own custom music that plays when they are used. That is absolutely fantastic

[T-34]

This is nonsense, or at best, pure speculation on your part.

I do find it interesting that you are trying to deny me my own experiences while playing FFXIV
But on the other hand I have something to reference to when someone asks me how are competitive players treated by the game and the players in FFXIV

[Katchii]

I do find it interesting that you are trying to deny me my own experiences while playing FFXIV
But on the other hand I have something to reference to when someone asks me how are competitive players treated by the game and the players in FFXIV

It's anecdotal evidence being used to create a theory of how the entire game works, and even stretches to try and lasso in the idea that this is how the designers intended this to work.

That's not how arguments or legitimate stances work.

You have absolutely no idea if what you're saying is actually true, specifically that the way the games are designed leads to pressure to get better or pressure to be worse. That's a completely unsubstantiated argument, and completely counter to my own experience in the two games.

So whose experience is more right? Yours or mine?

[Necromantic]

I still find that kinda hard to believe, considering that I've seen people in pugs start in on each other even before the first pull is made. With some regularity, in fact.

The fun thing about anecdotes is the vast subjectivity in them. I'm not saying Wrecktangle is wrong by any means but some people see that telling someone "git gud scrub" isn't belitting but helping. So to them, if that happened in every game they played, they would see no belittling going on

[Tyris Flare]

Here's a hypothetical:

I pugged a mists 14 yesterday for the weekly as a tank. The group broke up right before the first boss, which has never happened to me. The reasons:
-The warrior (top DPS) died 5x, including to the pride. Almost all of the damage he took at that point was unavoidable aside from a single melee hit from a spiteful mob.
-The 220 hunter was doing 2.6k dps
-The healer was doing 1.6 HPS on a grievous week, significantly less than I was doing as the blood tank.

Before the boss, the warrior asked "can I get a fucking heal?" after his 5th death. The healer told him to stop standing in melee. The warrior then said he's not going to carry a trash healer and a trash hunter and left.

--

To me, he was completely justified in leaving the group at that point. This group clearly wasn't going to beat the key - or if they did, it would take forever. I was personally going to pull the boss and leave if we wiped on it.

Is this toxic behavior? What if the game didn't allow you to comment on damage and healing meters?

[Kyriani]

Yeah, I knew someone was going to mention this, I thought about that after I wrote it. I know there are other methods, but like you said, it's still very slow, which is my main gripe, especially since leveling isn't the main part of why you play the game really heh

What I did/ do to level alt jobs (I only have ninja (57) and monk (51) left to max >_>) is do the hunt log to get to 20, then have my squadron carry me to 60 in between doing my daily leveling roulette and (when I get to 50) the main scenario roulette. Those roulettes give vast amounts of xp. 60 to 70 is a bit of a dead zone. Too high for squadrons, too low for trusts. For that range I rely on the Stormblood beast tribe dailies and the aforementioned roulettes. At 70 I can do the Shadowbringers beast tribe dailies, and at 71 I can let the trusts carry me to 80.

It's NOT fast to rely on the squadron or trusts but it can be incredibly low effort if you're leveling a DPS job. I basically watch shows while tabbing in to sic my npc's on the next trash pack. I only have to pay attention during the boss fights and even then all I have to do is not stand in bad. The NPC's will kill it eventually. Then I go back to my show.

[Necromantic]

Is this toxic behavior?

Absolutely, it is!

The group was not performing for the Warrior. Instead of being rude, he could have simply asked what was wrong, or not wait until after dying 5 times. Or he could just up and left. I would have asked what was going on after my 2nd death... if I didn't believe I was at fault.

This is also a perfect example of why people hate meters. Warrior was more than likely well over-geared for the content and wanted to flex his ego. This is generally the case when someone says they're "carrying" someone.

[Aeula]

New Game+ not giving any experience at all. Put me off levelling my other jobs, don't want to level alts either. Would love to go through the MSQ as a monk or something.