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  1. #21
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    Is the GOP really in a civil war? I thought it was more like Conservatives in Disarray. But NRSC Chair Rick Scott releases lenghty memo: “REPUBLICAN CIVIL WAR HAS BEEN CANCELLED.”

    So upper level leadership feels like they are indeed in some sort of intra-party conflict. What are the various factions vying for control?
    I think the two vying factions will be:

    1. those GOP that want to slough off Trump and his stain, and move the GOP forward and past Trump; and
    2. those that want to keep Trump at the help of the GOP

    Those are mutually exclusive goals. The "best-case" scenario for the country would be Trump forming a new political party, fracturing the GOP into two lesser parties, but who both have enough power and money to get candidates on a ballot.

    And we want this to happen.

  2. #22
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pro-Violence View Post
    The best I can find is the following:
    That’s from May and there are 4 total countries spending more... wtf was your point again?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52450958
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    That’s from May and there are 4 total countries spending more... wtf was your point again?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52450958
    When I look at this it does indeed seem to be about even:



    Just hard to find what the numbers are based on. Apparently the US numbers include unemployment money, while for EU countries it doesn't, as that is pretty standard fare there. Always hard to compare nations when every nation uses different metrics and standards.

    I feel like in West-Europe there has been more support per capita though. But that is nothing new, USA government has always been very conservative stingy with money / less friendly to common citizens and it's working class.
    Last edited by Yas-Queen Rochana; 2021-02-24 at 06:15 PM.

  4. #24
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pro-Violence View Post
    When I look at this it does indeed seem to be about even:
    Curb your enthusiasm theme:

    Quote Originally Posted by Pro-Violence View Post
    What bothers me mostly is that the effective package is so little compared to what people for example have been getting as covid relief in West-European nations
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Curb your enthusiasm theme:
    As I said, US numbers seem to include basic unemployment wages, while for EU numbers it doesn't (also considering unemployment wages tend to be higher in West-Europe than in the USA). So that paints a very skewed picture. Don't worry, USA is still being stingy. :P

  6. #26
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pro-Violence View Post
    I feel like in West-Europe
    What you feel is irrelevant... learn instead...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pro-Violence View Post
    As I said, US numbers seem to include basic unemployment wages, while for EU numbers it doesn't.
    Show it... because the complete opposite is happening... can you stop reacting with feeling and google before I ask you to? WTF?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    What you feel is irrelevant...
    Strong disagree. You should also take into account the unseen, as that is a large part of society. The criminal underworld, the undocumented borderline, everything done out of sight of government and academia by common people. That is why 'facts' won't ever capture the true essence of reality and what is really going on and why effective policy should never be based on facts and academic truths alone.
    Last edited by Yas-Queen Rochana; 2021-02-24 at 06:21 PM.

  8. #28
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pro-Violence View Post
    Strong disagree. You should also take into account the unseen, as that is a large part of society. The criminal underworld, the undocumented borderline, everything done out of sight of government and academia by common people. That is why 'facts' won't ever capture the true essence of reality and what is really going on and why effective policy should never be based on facts and academic truths alone.
    No, I am sorry... if feelings matter, then I feel that you don’t exist... that’s a paradox...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  9. #29
    There are two kinds of members in the GOP right now: republicans and undercover democrats. The idea is to get rid of these undercover democrats (for example: Bill Cassidy, Richard Burr, Susan Collins, Mitt Romney, etc).

    Polls show Trump still has an over 70% approval with the Republican voters, so obviously the idea for any political party is to cater to what the supporters want, in order to get voted, and the Republicans supporters want Trump. The major fear is that if they don't give them Trump, then they will never beat the Democrats again because people won't vote for them, and another fear is that Trump may decide to start his own party and bite off a huge chunk from the GOP base, which will also lead to them never having the votes to beat the Democrats ever again since the votes would be split between two parties.

    Imo, the GOP has no choice but to get Trump on their side, or it's over, and that means getting rid of the above among others.

  10. #30
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Butt Witch View Post
    There are two kinds of members in the GOP right now: republicans and undercover democrats. The idea is to get rid of these undercover democrats (for example: Bill Cassidy, Richard Burr, Susan Collins, Mitt Romney, etc).
    Out of those people, if you add Trump to them, guess who would be the only former registered democrat? Guess which one had Hillary Clinton at their wedding? Guess which one just made conservatives look like fools, by replacing the American flag, with Trump’s?

    You know who I think the former democrat destroying the GOP is?

    Edit: Out of the people you listed and Trump, who was the only one to donate to both... Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris campaign? Hint... It’s Trump...
    Last edited by Felya; 2021-02-24 at 06:32 PM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  11. #31
    I think if Trump supporters splinter from the Republicans you probably won't see another Republican president for a while. I'm probably wrong though but at this point I think anything can happen. Do you think Texas could be in play?

  12. #32
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echowisp View Post
    I think if Trump supporters splinter from the Republicans you probably won't see another Republican president for a while. I'm probably wrong though but at this point I think anything can happen. Do you think Texas could be in play?
    There has been only one popular vote win for a Republican, in over 30 years... they don’t have a lot to split...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  13. #33
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Out of those people, if you add Trump to them, guess who would be the only former registered democrat? Guess which one had Hillary Clinton at their wedding? Guess which one just made conservatives look like fools, by replacing the American flag, with Trump’s?

    You know who I think the former democrat destroying the GOP is?

    Edit: Out of the people you listed and Trump, who was the only one to donate to both... Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris campaign? Hint... It’s Trump...
    @Pro-Violence
    Can you guys take this to the COVID thread please?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by The Butt Witch View Post
    There are two kinds of members in the GOP right now: republicans and undercover democrats. The idea is to get rid of these undercover democrats (for example: Bill Cassidy, Richard Burr, Susan Collins, Mitt Romney, etc).

    Polls show Trump still has an over 70% approval with the Republican voters, so obviously the idea for any political party is to cater to what the supporters want, in order to get voted, and the Republicans supporters want Trump. The major fear is that if they don't give them Trump, then they will never beat the Democrats again because people won't vote for them, and another fear is that Trump may decide to start his own party and bite off a huge chunk from the GOP base, which will also lead to them never having the votes to beat the Democrats ever again since the votes would be split between two parties.

    Imo, the GOP has no choice but to get Trump on their side, or it's over, and that means getting rid of the above among others.
    So in a nutshell: It's Trump or GTFO?
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  15. #35
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    @Pro-Violence
    Can you guys take this to the COVID thread please?
    You quoted me responding to someone else, several post after I ended it... :/
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    So in a nutshell: It's Trump or GTFO?
    Yes. Pretty much. Trump is the hill to die on. That's IF the GOP chooses to die.

  17. #37
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Butt Witch View Post
    There are two kinds of members in the GOP right now: republicans and undercover democrats. The idea is to get rid of these undercover democrats (for example: Bill Cassidy, Richard Burr, Susan Collins, Mitt Romney, etc).

    Polls show Trump still has an over 70% approval with the Republican voters, so obviously the idea for any political party is to cater to what the supporters want, in order to get voted, and the Republicans supporters want Trump. The major fear is that if they don't give them Trump, then they will never beat the Democrats again because people won't vote for them, and another fear is that Trump may decide to start his own party and bite off a huge chunk from the GOP base, which will also lead to them never having the votes to beat the Democrats ever again since the votes would be split between two parties.

    Imo, the GOP has no choice but to get Trump on their side, or it's over, and that means getting rid of the above among others.
    I disagree about your category of "undercover" democrats. Those people you listed (Romney especially) are just moderate versions of the GOP. That might be for a separate discussion though.

    Trump still commands majority support in the GOP, as you pointed out, and that will be tough to deal with if the GOP tries to slough him off. I also agree that the only chance the GOP has to survive in it's current form is to fully embrace Trump. But we already know top leadership in the GOP doesn't want to do that - McConnell and Romney - so we will indeed be seeing some kind of civil war.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    So in a nutshell: It's Trump or GTFO?
    For the GOP, its basically Populism or failure. The energy is leaving that "Corporations are people my friend" Warhawk Nikki Haley types, and the Dems are absorbing that lane pretty quickly except for the corporations involved in resource extraction like Oil, Gas and Coal.

    Plus a lot of this is contingent on the Democrats likely, and inevitable, continued march along the trajectory of Neo-Liberalism. As the Democrats have utterly rebuked any sort of moderate DemSoc positions like Bernie Sanders, even having a vicious hatred of the guy, I see the destiny of the DNC to fill that role of the Pro-Market, Free Trade, War Hawk, and Fiscally stingy but socially very liberal and big on representation and HR friendly IdPol stuff.

    The GOP, well, i mean they already lost corporate America save for some petro-chemical companies. They don't have the National Security State so the Spook-Respectors are all in on the DNC.

    Just in terms of voters, you go where the voters are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA, corporate America is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out.

  19. #39
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Butt Witch View Post
    Yes. Pretty much. Trump is the hill to die on. That's IF the GOP chooses to die.
    That means their death is inevitable...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  20. #40
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echowisp View Post
    I think if Trump supporters splinter from the Republicans you probably won't see another Republican president for a while. I'm probably wrong though but at this point I think anything can happen. Do you think Texas could be in play?
    Agreed. Especially if the newly formed Party of Trump were able to get people on ballots in all 50 states.

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