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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    It's America First vs Neocons
    NeoCons won't win, they can just go Democrat. If you are a NeoCon still clinging into the GOP you are either foolish or been in a coma for years.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by echowisp View Post
    Depending on his speech and motives I think Trump will be the kingmaker if he does not run. The GOP is in a really hard place right now. I think we could be entering an era without a Republican Party. I don’t see any candidate surviving a general without Trump supporters. If that happens Democrats will probably control things for a few cycles.
    IMO Trump will try to run again unless the Dems manage to barr him with the 14th amendment, the GOP is already closing ranks. Hate him as much as you want, but he got more than 70 million votes and the GOP will do anything to keep those voters and stay in power. If that requires rallying behind Trump they will do it.

    I doubt that he will announce his candidacy this sunday at CPAC, but he will once again manage to please his fans with his attacks on Biden, the Dems and everybody not them.

    And the Dems are, IMHO, in hot water too. The promised relief checks are not coming, and Biden abandoned the 15$ minimum wage, a broken promise that could cost the Dems Georgia and Arizona. Nor will there be any cancellation of student debt.
    So far it looks like a Biden presidency means austerity, lack of real action over climate chaos and backing for war.
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I'm fine with a mafia. Of course, the mafia families often worked with independent third parties in order to maintain relations.

  3. #123
    God I hope so. After CPAC having a literal fucking golden idol for the Christians and a stage shaped like a nazi symbol for the white supremacists I really hope there's part of the party that isn't completely fucking batshit insane.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by segara82 View Post
    IMO Trump will try to run again unless the Dems manage to barr him with the 14th amendment, the GOP is already closing ranks. Hate him as much as you want, but he got more than 70 million votes and the GOP will do anything to keep those voters and stay in power. If that requires rallying behind Trump they will do it.

    I doubt that he will announce his candidacy this sunday at CPAC, but he will once again manage to please his fans with his attacks on Biden, the Dems and everybody not them.

    And the Dems are, IMHO, in hot water too. The promised relief checks are not coming, and Biden abandoned the 15$ minimum wage, a broken promise that could cost the Dems Georgia and Arizona. Nor will there be any cancellation of student debt.
    So far it looks like a Biden presidency means austerity, lack of real action over climate chaos and backing for war.
    I don't have a blind hatred for him. I'm actually genuinely curious with people and what their thoughts are on certain issues. Honestly, he was the reason I even decided to get into politics and better understand it in general. I agree with you on the democrats. If they do not keep their promises and pass your listed issues, they could have a hard time in the midterms. I'm not very knowledgeable politically like most people here but I don't think the democrats are out of the woods.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Nelinrah View Post
    God I hope so. After CPAC having a literal fucking golden idol for the Christians and a stage shaped like a nazi symbol for the white supremacists I really hope there's part of the party that isn't completely fucking batshit insane.
    Let us be specific

    At CPAC there was a hollow golden statue of Donald Trump MADE IN MEXICO even the onion would think this joke is too on the nose.

  6. #126
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Let us be specific

    At CPAC there was a hollow golden statue of Donald Trump MADE IN MEXICO even the onion would think this joke is too on the nose.
    I think the GOP writ large has stopped caring because it's obvious that they have no moral center or bar to which they'll take exception, no matter how profoundly stupid, hypocritical, or laughably bad something they do is.

    The only thing that delivers these politicians and their sycophantic supporters the shame they deserve is defeat, monetary loss and/or jail time, and it needs to be handed to them. Repeatedly.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  7. #127
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    NeoCons won't win, they can just go Democrat. If you are a NeoCon still clinging into the GOP you are either foolish or been in a coma for years.
    They can’t... very simple reason... You know how you keep defending oil companies? How are democrats supposed to welcome neoCons, when the money behind neoCons, is something you admit democrats are attacking?

    You can’t say democrats are going to welcome neoCons, while at the same time complaining that democrats are attacking fossil fuel industry. NeoCons got Rick Perry as the secretary of energy and had Tellison, a former CEO of Exxon, as Secretary of State... as GOP beat drums of populism. That means they already won... think about it... how exactly did neoCons lose, when they successfully made fossil fuel populist? In four years, they went from causing all the wars, keeping clean energy down, lying about climate change for money... to being part of the populace fighting the evil big tech of social media?

    They won... they lost elections, but they won the rhetoric war... the win is so dramatic and successful, I honestly would never have guessed this would happen in 2016. I thought the Tellison hire was the end of Trump populism, but instead it just made big oil, populist. Fucked up...

    Edit: Just take a time machine to any time before 2016... Can you even imagine someone arguing on behalf of the Rockefellers, as populist? As being representative of the working class? If you can remember those old days of 4 years ago... there is no way you can say NeoCons lost... We literally had a thread, that claimed Flynn, was treated as badly as Dick Chainy victims.

    Anyone saying NeoCons lost is either gaslighting or has been gas lit them selfs...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    At CPAC there was a hollow golden statue of Donald Trump MADE IN MEXICO even the onion would think this joke is too on the nose.
    It wasn’t hollow... someone posted the weight yesterday... figuratively, it’s full of some shit.
    Last edited by Felya; 2021-02-28 at 02:00 PM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I think the GOP writ large has stopped caring because it's obvious that they have no moral center or bar to which they'll take exception, no matter how profoundly stupid, hypocritical, or laughably bad something they do is.

    The only thing that delivers these politicians and their sycophantic supporters the shame they deserve is defeat, monetary loss and/or jail time, and it needs to be handed to them. Repeatedly.
    The problem is I don't think establishment democrats have the appetite or the spine to do what it takes to crush this new GOP into the ground. They seem to be under the delusion that things will go back to normal if Trump is taken out of the equation. Even if Trump is gone this is not going away every other major GOP "leader" is emulating Trump and the base doesn't want a standard politician anymore.

    Trump is the GOP even if he were to drop dead tomorrow nothing would change.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    It wasn’t hollow... someone posted the weight yesterday... figuratively, it’s full of some shit.
    And the article states the guy spend his life's savings and six months to create it, it doesn't get more cult than that.

  9. #129
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    There were 59 democratic Senators during the first two years of Obama's first term, and 60 for a very short period of time. And that was pre-Trump.

    A lot of the historic turnout was a one time only event for Trump, eventually leading to the failed terrorist attack on the capitol.

    It was deemed IMPOSSIBLE for democrats to have veto proof margins in the California state houses. Until it actually happened. Basically, republicans made such a mess of California, even as a minority party, that people left the republican party and made California more blue than was thought possible. And oh yeah, people that LEFT California have already made Nevada, Colorado, and New Mexico blue, and are in the process of turning Arizona and Texas blue as well. Oregon and Washington were once purplish. Not anymore.

    Right now, republicans on a nationwide basis are making a similar mess of the country. Senate republicans aren't talking about coming up with reasonable compromises that would make the stimulus better or more efficient, they are talking about completely opposing it. In the past, republicans really did work hard to fight social distancing and wearing masks in public, and now 500k deaths are their fault, with more to come.

    Meanwhile, McConnell can be paraphrased to be saying to Trump supporters: we are 100% completely and totally AGAINST EVER providing you with government aid, and will always oppose it with every breath we take.

    When people here say that people making minimum wage deserve what they get because they are lazy, they are explicitly saying TRUMP SUPPORTERS ARE LAZY JERKS THAT DESERVE TO LIVE IN EXTREME POVERTY.

    Quite a few Trump supporters are making close to minimum wage.

    The same anger that Trump used to fuel the recent terrorist attack will turn against republicans, similar to what happened in California. It's hard to hate people that are doing what they can to send you money. And it's hard to fully support people that insult you and work so hard to prevent you from getting some good breaks.

    And this is before demographics continue to kick in...
    (little delay in responding, lol)

    We did, but a lot has changed since then. Including a very troublesome development out of the 2020 election - while we won the White House and [barely] got the Senate and retained the house - all of which are AWESOME, of course - there were several senate seats we lost that seemed like we should have won. North Carolina was a key seat, along with Collins in Maine - her opponent was well-funded and should have won. Three or four other seats were tracking to be close, and then weren't - right at the time when the GOP was most vulnerable. We also lost seats in the House.

    So something is wrong. And the Democrats are looking into it:
    Democrats Beat Trump in 2020. Now They’re Asking: What Went Wrong?
    Disappointed by down-ballot losses, Democratic interest groups are joining forces to conduct an autopsy of the election results. Republicans do not yet seem willing to reckon with the G.O.P.’s major defeats.
    The GOP seems now primed to retain it's physical integrity while their moral compass is tossed to the four winds. CPAC is showing that Trump is still in charge, and that means we're going to see the same lies and atrocities as before.

    You're right that the GOP is at war against americans - they are cutting social program spending, attempting to tear apart COVID relief with their lies and hyperbole, and are primed to deny the Democrats any legislative victory, even if it means thousands of americans will continue to die.

    But somehow that doesn't matter.

    74 million people voted for Trump. He won reelection by only hundreds of thousands of votes thanks for our arcane election system. And the GOP is attempting to destroy our voting system, since gerrymandering and lies didn't work.

    And Trump hasn't even started his cable network yet.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    snip
    We'll see how things turn out. For the most part I am going to partially tune out of politics a bit. I don't have the energy to deal with it anymore.

    If the virus is under control by next January, then next year I'll be out and about in nearby democratic strongholds registering voters. But for now the whole political process exhausts me. So I need to recharge my batteries.

    Having said that, I am quite aware of the importance of the 2022 elections. I won't be sitting that election out.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    (little delay in responding, lol)

    We did, but a lot has changed since then. Including a very troublesome development out of the 2020 election - while we won the White House and [barely] got the Senate and retained the house - all of which are AWESOME, of course - there were several senate seats we lost that seemed like we should have won. North Carolina was a key seat, along with Collins in Maine - her opponent was well-funded and should have won. Three or four other seats were tracking to be close, and then weren't - right at the time when the GOP was most vulnerable. We also lost seats in the House.

    So something is wrong. And the Democrats are looking into it:


    The GOP seems now primed to retain it's physical integrity while their moral compass is tossed to the four winds. CPAC is showing that Trump is still in charge, and that means we're going to see the same lies and atrocities as before.

    You're right that the GOP is at war against americans - they are cutting social program spending, attempting to tear apart COVID relief with their lies and hyperbole, and are primed to deny the Democrats any legislative victory, even if it means thousands of americans will continue to die.

    But somehow that doesn't matter.

    74 million people voted for Trump. He won reelection by only hundreds of thousands of votes thanks for our arcane election system. And the GOP is attempting to destroy our voting system, since gerrymandering and lies didn't work.

    And Trump hasn't even started his cable network yet.
    The answer is obvious democrats don't do major changes. The establishment approach for decades has been boil the frog. If people can't tell when you have power then they think both sides are the same. You want to fight propaganda give people real change like the minimum wage, voting rights, prison reform, legalize marijuana etc. The average American doesn't get or care about the filibuster they just think democrats are incompetent.

    Sadly I don't see Biden having the balls to overturn the fillibuster and getting shit done. We will look back at this and say this was a time we could have stopped fascism but didn't. The GOP can take the house solely using gerrymandering and use voter suppression to take the Senate and the white without gaining new votes.

    I hope I am wrong and democrats grow some balls for all our sakes. If CPAC has shown anything this is getting worse.

  12. #132
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    NeoCons won't win, they can just go Democrat. If you are a NeoCon still clinging into the GOP you are either foolish or been in a coma for years.
    New development from CPAC... Trump repeated big oil lies about wind energy in Texas and said he is not starting his own party. Has Trump been in a comma for years?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  13. #133
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    The answer is obvious democrats don't do major changes. The establishment approach for decades has been boil the frog. If people can't tell when you have power then they think both sides are the same. You want to fight propaganda give people real change like the minimum wage, voting rights, prison reform, legalize marijuana etc. The average American doesn't get or care about the filibuster they just think democrats are incompetent.

    Sadly I don't see Biden having the balls to overturn the fillibuster and getting shit done. We will look back at this and say this was a time we could have stopped fascism but didn't. The GOP can take the house solely using gerrymandering and use voter suppression to take the Senate and the white without gaining new votes.

    I hope I am wrong and democrats grow some balls for all our sakes. If CPAC has shown anything this is getting worse.
    I agree. The Democrats have always lost in the messaging department (some how we're pro-choice instead of pro-women, etc).

    However, Biden might have the balls or not, but Manchin won't allow it, so...what's your solution there?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    New development from CPAC... Trump repeated big oil lies about wind energy in Texas and said he is not starting his own party. Has Trump been in a comma for years?
    No separate party means no GOP Civil War. Too bad, would have been nice.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I agree. The Democrats have always lost in the messaging department (some how we're pro-choice instead of pro-women, etc).

    However, Biden might have the balls or not, but Manchin won't allow it, so...what's your solution there?
    Do the one thing Obama never did take the kid gloves off and put pressure on the fucker, whether it is cutting off his funding or actively lobby his state using a popular policy like raising the minimum wage. These self important lifelong politicians being treated with the soft touch is rather sickening.

  15. #135
    conservatives vs social nationalist

    social nationalist are winning
    they almost won in 2020
    conservatives failing to call out and oppose the social nationalist need to look up the night of long knives

  16. #136
    It's Trumps party still. Nobody likes Moscow Mitch and his rich Cronies.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy911 View Post
    It's Trumps party still. Nobody likes Moscow Mitch and his rich Cronies.
    So...they prefer Putin's bitch and his rich cronies?

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy911 View Post
    It's Trumps party still. Nobody likes Moscow Mitch and his rich Cronies.
    He only got 55% of the vote at PAC designed 100% around him, all with a golden idol to him that literally breaks Biblical commandments. Yeah, that isn't a good sign tbh.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    conservatives failing to call out and oppose the social nationalist need to look up the night of long knives
    I suggest you do the same. You might learn something.

  20. #140
    I mean, I guess they mostly signaled fealty to Trump. He did get a narrow majority of support for a 2024 bid, though only 55% is amusingly low for a guy that was polling at 90%+ with Republicans and bragging about it. Hell, even Rick Scott moved away from Trump with his comments.

    But hey, if CPAC wants to stick with a guy that won an election in a fluke, proceeded to lose them both the House and the Senate, and is the first incumbent to lost re-election since George H.W. Bush in 1992, go for it. Nobody took him seriously the first time, and they rectified that mistake for the midterms and general election.

    I'll be here for the messy ongoing internal struggle though. Please put Cheney and McCarthy on stage together to let Cheney continue humiliating him for being a Trump and white supremacist simp.

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