Is the GOP in a Civil War?

[Milchshake]

Is the GOP really in a civil war? I thought it was more like Conservatives in Disarray. But NRSC Chair Rick Scott releases lenghty memo: “REPUBLICAN CIVIL WAR HAS BEEN CANCELLED.”

So upper level leadership feels like they are indeed in some sort of intra-party conflict. What are the various factions vying for control?

[Breccia]

Not yet.

But they can see a civil war from where they're standing...Florida. Trump could rip the party in half (well, 58/42) if he really wanted to. I get the feeling the GOP doesn't want that, and is both taking steps to distance Trump while also taking steps to placate him.

It's like the frog in the pot of water slowly boiling.

[Milchshake]

Not yet.

But they can see a civil war from where they're standing...Florida. Trump could rip the party in half (well, 58/42) if he really wanted to. I get the feeling the GOP doesn't want that, and is both taking steps to distance Trump while also taking steps to placate him.

It's like the frog in the pot of water slowly boiling.

That frog is probably a zombie that lurches around croaking "supply side economics".


Because we know from the previous parable, the scorpion already murderer him.

[Theodarzna]

Not really.

If you want to be a big time NeoCon Warhawk and really fiscally stingy, just switch to the Democrats, they will welcome you with open arms. So if one is brewing it'll be very short lived because there just isn't a future for Nikki Haley in the GOP. Now as a Democrat? Maybe should could make that happen.

At the end of the day the elected GOP just don't have a base. Romney, credit to him, might have figured this out which is why he came up with the "Pay people money for having kids" plan; which is highly popular and a big break from the old "Corporations are people my friend" Romney. But that is essentially the position the GOP is in. The United States just cannot have two political parties that agree on Trade, Markets, War, and Deficit hawkery. So inevitably one of these two parties has to change. Since the Democratic party has wholly rebuked any notion of that Bernie Sanders style stuff; and its leadership reviles the ideas, and has hotly embraced ye' ol' Dixiecrat Biden, well, The GOP has to transmute to be a party that reflects what its voter base wants.

[Machismo]

Not really.

If you want to be a big time NeoCon Warhawk and really fiscally stingy, just switch to the Democrats, they will welcome you with open arms. So if one is brewing it'll be very short lived because there just isn't a future for Nikki Haley in the GOP. Now as a Democrat? Maybe should could make that happen.

At the end of the day the elected GOP just don't have a base. Romney, credit to him, might have figured this out which is why he came up with the "Pay people money for having kids" plan; which is highly popular and a big break from the old "Corporations are people my friend" Romney. But that is essentially the position the GOP is in. The United States just cannot have two political parties that agree on Trade, Markets, War, and Deficit hawkery. So inevitably one of these two parties has to change. Since the Democratic party has wholly rebuked any notion of that Bernie Sanders style stuff; and its leadership reviles the ideas, and has hotly embraced ye' ol' Dixiecrat Biden, well, The GOP has to transmute to be a party that reflects what its voter base wants.

Nobody is buying this bullshit. You supported ethnic cleansing, apartheid, and far worse... so to clutch at pearls in order to defend the GOP... makes no sense at all. You have consistently bean beaten down whenever you try and make this argument, because reality doesn't jive with the narrative you are pushing. Claiming the Democrats want austerity, when they are pushing a $2 trillion dollar package... makes you an outright liar.

If you somehow think that the GOP is going to embrace Bernie-bot socialism... then you are on a whole different plane of existence. The GOP wants their own brand of socialism, your brand. It's called national socialism.

[Biglog]

The term Civil War has been misused and thrown around way too much in the past year. Even the failed January 6th insurrection was only 2,000 mislead domestic terrorists in a country of 330 million people. Hardly a drop in the bucket, and a far cry from the civil war they hope for to change their loss at the polls in 2020.

Political parties have internal conflict constantly on where to stand on topics, and that's always been the case. That's not a new development. It's also not unique to the GOP. It happens in every party in every democratic country. Pelosi and AOC aren't best buddies. Same for Mitt Romney and Mitch McConnell. That's because there are varying degrees of conservative and liberal. Being in a political party doesn't mean you A to Z agree with every single stance they have. There are pro-choice conservatives, there are pro-gun liberals. That does not mean Civil War.

For the GOP, it's already started distancing itself from the more alt-right fringes since Biden took office. So I wouldn't call it a Civil War by a mile, but the GOP will need to figure out how to keep the niche MAGA portion of their party happy while trying to not look like a party of militia insurrectionist radicals to the wider GOP majority which is much more centrist conservative.

[Santti]

"Civil War"? Does it have to be a "war" every single time? War on drugs, war on poverty, war on terror, war on homelessness, war on battered plants...

No, it's not a civil war. More like an identity crisis. Even that is questionable if it's even that.

[Edge-]

Seems reasonable... Just wondering when they're going to finally push it through then, they've been apparently promising this for the past few months without making much happen yet.

$1.9T legislation takes a bit of time to write and make sure all your party is in line for because the other party has said they won't vote on shit. Unless folks want them to just slap together some loose language and leave much of the $1.9T even more prone to corporate abuse than it was in the first stimulus.

[Paranoid Android]

They are ALL fascists. If you still vote for or represent the GOP, ala Mitt Romney, the you support fascism.

This is not being some 'pure' Republican or well in order to get my tax cuts, insurrection, white supremacy and fascism is all I have to put up with.

No civil war.

[Felya]

There is no civil war!! God damn it Kolo... oh... wait a second...

I’ll say no, because they don’t have clearly defined battle lines. Trump supporters might have wanted to kill Pence, but Pence isn’t shifting from his support of Trump. What GOP is doing and I expect them to continue to succeed in doing so, is playing both sides. They will be whores in the court rooms, but house wives in the media.

[Theodarzna]

My entire life those have been staples for the republicans and conservatives in general. So my question is........what?

Even right now Dems wanted 2k stimulus checks and republicans cried to get it down to 1400 so again......what?

“For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.” - Chuck Schumer.

Dems want 1.4k checks, not 2k checks. And are very open to further and further means testing. So big question on if we are getting it. Minimum Wage is all but abounded except for the much hated and NOT-A-DEMOCRAT Bernie Sanders, and otherwise the party is all in on the National Security State. Hell, those voters will be lucky if the 10k debt cancellation even happens without insane strings attached.

The party is looking to be a pro-business, pro-market, ect party and has been since at least Clinton and before.

[cubby]

Is the GOP really in a civil war? I thought it was more like Conservatives in Disarray. But NRSC Chair Rick Scott releases lenghty memo: “REPUBLICAN CIVIL WAR HAS BEEN CANCELLED.”

So upper level leadership feels like they are indeed in some sort of intra-party conflict. What are the various factions vying for control?

I fucking hope so. If they aren't there yet, the GOP is certainly moving in that direction. I hope the Party of Trump gets launched soon. Divide that ticket!

[Felya]

What bothers me mostly is that the effective package is so little compared to what people for example have been getting as covid relief in West-European nations, but that it's already costing a total of 2 trillion dollars. Either the price goes up really fast when you've got a much larger nation / population or there is a lot of waste / overpricedness for the effective aid delivered.

Why don’t you list the statistics on which country spends the most...

[Edge-]

What bothers me mostly is that the effective package is so little compared to what people for example have been getting as covid relief in West-European nations, but that it's already costing a total of 2 trillion dollars. Either the price goes up really fast when you've got a much larger nation / population or there is a lot of waste / overpricedness for the effective aid delivered.

Because that money isn't all going directly to people. You posted where it's going to, and most of those are great place to spend money.

More SBA loans? Great! Actual smaller businesses need help, and if they're gonna stick around through the pandemic and come back after we're through this they need a hand. It's basically working to head off even worse mass closures of businesses that would lower total potential employment after this ends. Also, helps folks who get sick get paid while taking time off that they may not otherwise be able to receive.

State/local funding and increased money for vaccination programs? VERY NEEDED, states and counties/cities are doing the lionshare of the work on the ground and are expanding services to meet folks needs as best they can, but they need money to do that. Money for expanded vaccination programs also helps speed those up so we can get to safe levels of national vaccine distribution sooner.

Direct aid? Yep, rad.

Additional unemployment/social safety net program funding? Again, rad, this helps the folks hit hardest.

It's a huge package. It's expansive. It has a lot in it. That means it takes more time to hammer out all the language for it and get sign on from everyone in your party, because you can't rely on the other half of the Legislature to lift a finger to help Americans out while they're suffering.

Because they're too busy having the "not a civil war" infighting between the Trump cult and the folks that have actually believed that the party isn't just a decades-long fascist dog whistle that no longer needs the whistle.

[Felya]

Additional unemployment/social safety net program funding?

The unemployment part is why the comparison looks so skewed. When people talk about the stimulus, they don’t include the fact that you also can collect over 3600 in unemployment.

[cubby]

Not yet.

But they can see a civil war from where they're standing...Florida. Trump could rip the party in half (well, 58/42) if he really wanted to. I get the feeling the GOP doesn't want that, and is both taking steps to distance Trump while also taking steps to placate him.

It's like the frog in the pot of water slowly boiling.

Good analogy - lots of people don't know that phenomenon. I've been watching McConnell a bit and wondering about all of his bipartisan "support" for both Garland's nomination and his blatant statements about the criminality of Trump's actions in regards to the Capital Insurrection.

One solid conclusion to arrive at is that he wants the Democrats to save the GOP. If Trump is prosecuted and placed in jail, literally in jail, he wouldn't be able to run for office - saving the GOP from a nightmare scenario in 2024 where even Mitt Romney thinks Trump would win the nomination. I'm not sure any kind of prosecution would keep Trump down though - so long as he can speak and raise money, and has his own cable network, he'll be an ongoing threat.

So is the GOP in a civil war? Yeah - and it's going to be fan-fucking-tastic to watch. Any hysterical if the Party of Trump split the GOP vote in FL and their EC votes went to a democrat.

[cubby]

Is the GOP really in a civil war? I thought it was more like Conservatives in Disarray. But NRSC Chair Rick Scott releases lenghty memo: “REPUBLICAN CIVIL WAR HAS BEEN CANCELLED.”

So upper level leadership feels like they are indeed in some sort of intra-party conflict. What are the various factions vying for control?

I think the two vying factions will be:

1. those GOP that want to slough off Trump and his stain, and move the GOP forward and past Trump; and
2. those that want to keep Trump at the help of the GOP

Those are mutually exclusive goals. The "best-case" scenario for the country would be Trump forming a new political party, fracturing the GOP into two lesser parties, but who both have enough power and money to get candidates on a ballot.

And we want this to happen.

[Felya]

The best I can find is the following:

That’s from May and there are 4 total countries spending more... wtf was your point again?

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52450958

[Felya]

When I look at this it does indeed seem to be about even:

Curb your enthusiasm theme:

What bothers me mostly is that the effective package is so little compared to what people for example have been getting as covid relief in West-European nations

[Felya]

I feel like in West-Europe

What you feel is irrelevant... learn instead...

- - - Updated - - -

As I said, US numbers seem to include basic unemployment wages, while for EU numbers it doesn't.

Show it... because the complete opposite is happening... can you stop reacting with feeling and google before I ask you to? WTF?