Page 16 of 20 FirstFirst ...
6
14
15
16
17
18
... LastLast
  1. #301
    Scarab Lord SinR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    My Own Personal Hell
    Posts
    4,071
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Pre synergies was absolutely chaotic, and I loved it. Any gimmick build was viable given that the game wasn't very balanced at the time.

    Most fun and successful builds I had were an Iron Maiden/Bonewall Necro and a Conversion Thorns Paladin. Playing Paladin like a Necromancer was super fun.
    Conversion Thorns Paladin in XP Games was amazing.

    1) convert Cows
    2) they get Thorns Aura
    3) WW Barb comes running through with Whirlwind, hitting Cows
    4) Conversion drops, but Cow still has Thorns aura for a few seconds
    5) Barb hits the cow that has Thorns.
    6) "XxXLAMERBARBXxX has been slain"
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
    #TeamFuckEverything

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    Conversion Thorns Paladin in XP Games was amazing.

    1) convert Cows
    2) they get Thorns Aura
    3) WW Barb comes running through with Whirlwind, hitting Cows
    4) Conversion drops, but Cow still has Thorns aura for a few seconds
    5) Barb hits the cow that has Thorns.
    6) "XxXLAMERBARBXxX has been slain"
    I really do wish they could go back to that style of gameplay, and just open up all the quirky builds that were viable at the time. It was all pre-LOD, so Druid and Assassin didn't even get to experience that era of Diablo 2.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I disagree with your opinion and your argument. I think we can leave it at that since we're both going nowhere with this, since neither of us agree on each other's definitions.
    I use the only definition that matters the oxford dictionary so if you dont use that then you are always going to be wrong in terms of definitions.

    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    See I would HARD DISAGREE, as I find PoE to be complete shit game, the combat was crap, the talent tree/system is convoluted bullshit, the story is non-existent, and the graphics are meh at best. I would only consider it pinnacle if you mean the pinnacle of shit games. The only way I would play that game again would be if they paid me 10,000s of dollars per an hour.
    You could say the story is non existant in any game if you dont care about it, the combat is PoE is still better than what is available in D2 since its an old game it just has the most basic combat system.

    D2 is just a more basic version of D3 in terms of gameplay and content.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2021-09-23 at 11:33 PM.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    I use the only definition that matters the oxford dictionary so if you dont use that then you are always going to be wrong in terms of definitions.
    Meh.

    Nowhere does it say in Oxford Dictionary does Pinnacle mean Insurmountable.

    "‘After working in the hospitality industry for 21 years, Gao has proved herself to be a person who reaches the pinnacle of success in whatever field she involves herself.’"

    See here? There's an active threshold on the definition. Who reaches the pinnacle of success in whatever field she involves herself. Not just one pinnacle, but many, including future outcomes. There is no one defining threshold of which all other future achievements may never surpass said pinnacle.

    So even Oxford Dictionary itself has examples that aren't following your personal definition, that there can not be more than one defined pinnacle or that it must be applied to something that is absolutely insurmountable.


    Again, we're not agreeing on the same definitions, and it's clear to me that you aren't even abiding to the examples provided by the source you're using.

    Here's more examples from Oxford Dictionary:

    ‘Cllr Staunton said that Westport had reached the pinnacle of success, but added that there are still challenges ahead.’

    ‘Knokke's Casino represented for a Belgian singer like Brel the pinnacle of success, glamorous like Las Vegas was for Frank Sinatra.’

    Examples of multiple pinnacles and gauges for pinnacles, and all contextualized as subjective values. Pinnacle of success is not one static or factual value; it can be contextualized in any form just as the Belgian singer's 'pinnacle of success' is equated to a completely different singer in a completely different place. There's no one pinnacle when measuring that success, and it isn't in the context of Knokke's Casino being the only place where a Pinnacle of Success for a Singer would be defined. And that's the difference in how you are choosing to view the definition compared to how the definition actually works - in context to what we're actually talking about, and not just to any one singular point of 'Financial' or 'Popular' success.

    The original context was D2 (LoD) is the pinnacle of aRPG game design, which means its design has been the critical high point of ARPGs. And in respect to PoE and D3, their overall designs can be argued to not have surpassed D2's because they haven't actually done anything to surpass the design elegance of it. PoE literally takes the formula and runs with it; it's not actually improved the system and is still criticized for being overly complicated despite its depth. It's not praised as being the best ARPG system.

    Popularity does not factor into "pinnacle of aRPG game design" because we're not talking about what is popular, but what design is the best. And arguably, that still goes to D2 as an overall package. When was the last time anyone talked about how good PoE's story was? D2 was a better full package.

    PoE has a 86% score on Metacritic. 8.0 User Score.
    Diablo 2? 88%. 8.8 User Score.


    And let's be clear here - this stuff I'm pointing out doesn't mean that PoE isn't or can't be considered the pinnacle of ARPG design either. It very well may be considered that. But if you're going to start talking about *FACTS*? Then yeah, I'm gonna bring evidence that proves PoE is not universally considered higher rated or better design than Diablo 2. It's still a general consensus that Diablo 2 is better overall, in both professional and user scores.

    What facts do you have to prove otherwise? Your opinion that the Potion system sucks, or that not many people are playing D2? ARPGs are pretty dead as a genre anyways as far as gaming is concerned. PoE reaches 270,000 players at its peak level of play, and the average amount of players is closer to ~25k concurrently, ~50k daily. Compare that to MOBAs like League of Legends which numbers in the MILLIONS daily, with 4 million players concurrently, 11 million daily. So talking about popularity is all relative.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-24 at 12:33 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    snip
    The meaning of pinnacle is the most successful point, the highest possible peak, in simple terms for you that means its the best and cant be beaten.

    You have been beaten just accept it, D2 is not the pinnacle of game design and it never was.

    The amount of nonsense you post just proves you have lost the argument.

    D2 is a decent game thats all it is, barely anyone is still going to be playing the remaster in a few months, because the game itself is just not that good to keep ppl interested.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2021-09-24 at 12:31 AM.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    The meaning of pinnacle is the most successful point, the highest possible peak, in simple terms for you that means its the best and cant be beaten.
    It means it's the best and hasn't been beaten.

    It means the most successful point of ARPG design, and it rings true when games like PoE and D3 actually take directly from D2's design.

    So no game has actually beaten D2 in that regard.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-24 at 12:44 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    The meaning of pinnacle is the most successful point, the highest possible peak, in simple terms for you that means its the best and cant be beaten.

    You have been beaten just accept it, D2 is not the pinnacle of game design and it never was.

    The amount of nonsense you post just proves you have lost the argument.

    D2 is a decent game thats all it is, barely anyone is still going to be playing the remaster in a few months, because the game itself is just not that good to keep ppl interested.
    I mean it was literally the undisputed best for over a decade, and no one would argue against that. No modern ARPG can make that claim.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    It means it's the best and hasn't been beaten.

    It means the most successful point of ARPG design, and it rings true when games like PoE and D3 actually take directly from D2's design.

    So no game has actually beaten D2 in that regard.
    D2 is just a copy from previous games available, every game has beaten D2 and that is fact. Diablo 3 was just a better and more enjoyable game and its the most successfull aRPG game sold.

    If you honestly think D2 is the best, then you have really low standards for gameplay.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    I mean it was literally the undisputed best for over a decade, and no one would argue against that. No modern ARPG can make that claim.
    Im not saying it wasnt the best in its time, im saying the game is not the pinnacle of its genre as some of the die hard D2 fans are suggesting
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2021-09-24 at 12:59 AM.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    D2 is just a copy from previous games available, every game has beaten D2 and that is fact. Diablo 3 was just a better and more enjoyable game and its the most successfull aRPG game sold.

    If you honestly think D2 is the best, then you have really low standards for gameplay.
    Already told you, I think Monster Hunter is a far better game and series, so no my standard for gameplay is not low at all. Monster Hunter is a far better designed game that is played by more people than Path of Exile even.

    But in regards of the best designed ARPG? That is still arguably Diablo 2, from which most-to-all Hack and Slash ARPGs have derived from. Again, it's not an argument of what *I* think is best, it's an argument of what *IS REGARDED* as being the best. And Diablo 2 arguably that game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Already told you, I think Monster Hunter is a far better game and series, so no my standard for gameplay is not low at all. Monster Hunter is a far better designed game that is played by more people than Path of Exile even.

    But in regards of the best designed ARPG? That is still arguably Diablo 2, from which most-to-all Hack and Slash ARPGs have derived from. Again, it's not an argument of what *I* think is best, it's an argument of what *IS REGARDED* as being the best. And Diablo 2 arguably that game.
    D2 is not the best designed aRPG, PoE alone is far better designed, better designs come with evolution, a 20 year old game is never going to be the best designed aRPG. D2 took alot from its previous games design, and all evolutions will take good things and improve on them for future games.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    D2 is just a copy from previous games available, every game has beaten D2 and that is fact. Diablo 3 was just a better and more enjoyable game and its the most successfull aRPG game sold.

    If you honestly think D2 is the best, then you have really low standards for gameplay.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Im not saying it wasnt the best in its time, im saying the game is not the pinnacle of its genre as some of the die hard D2 fans are suggesting
    ? What is pinnacle then? The final game in a genre to make that game? D2 was the pinnacle of ARPG for over a decade, no game since can make the the claim of being the best since (unless you want to insert your own opinion). More so it was completely undisputed, which again no current game can make.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    D2 is not the best designed aRPG, PoE alone is far better designed, better designs come with evolution, a 20 year old game is never going to be the best designed aRPG. D2 took alot from its previous games design, and all evolutions will take good things and improve on them for future games.
    See I would 100% disagree, I think even D1 was better designed than PoE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  12. #312
    The reason d2 was a wild success was it was on bnet 1.0, which was the pinnacle of blizzard social play. The remaster is a mere shadow of what made d2 fun because the bnet ecosystem was destroyed by blizz.

    You could try to add QoL but thats the wrong path and will fail. The social play must be brought back which blizz refuses to do.

    Without bnet 1.0 propping up d2,you might as well play torchlight 2. Better graphics and gameplay in an ARPG.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    ? What is pinnacle then? The final game in a genre to make that game? D2 was the pinnacle of ARPG for over a decade, no game since can make the the claim of being the best since (unless you want to insert your own opinion). More so it was completely undisputed, which again no current game can make.



    See I would 100% disagree, I think even D1 was better designed than PoE.
    Why are you people arguing with Star Citizen cultist?

  14. #314
    If you are honest it didnt age too well, its still okay. Its kinda like 1999 deus ex. Brilliant game, didnt age too well. And thats fine.

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    If you are honest it didnt age too well, its still okay. Its kinda like 1999 deus ex. Brilliant game, didnt age too well. And thats fine.
    What does "didn't age too well" even mean in this context? I still enjoy D2 far more than most modern games. There's a bit of weird clunk with the stat system & a few other things - but none of those things even come close to ruining it for me. The game is wonderful.

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    What drugs are you on? Back then people played for years in a row. We did D2 and D2:Lod with synergies.

    I'm against any and all change. I personally feel that allowing respec (2010?) already oversteps. I'm a purist. D2 has way more than 10h of gameplay in it, in the range of another 10k on top of the previous 10k, and if it's not your type of game, go play D4.

    No expansions, no more additional content. Bring me D2 as it was, and especially do not let any of your woke devs touch more than the Amazon and Assassin, because my God, that alone manages to make me cringe when thinking about it, I probably couldn't handle them implementing LQTBXYZLMNOP characters to force feed "morals" to people that just want a good game. That's what D4 is going to be like, you can have it.
    Only a relative few did. The majority played through the first difficulty and stopped. Some did more than one and stopped. Few played for years on end. I beat Diablo on Hell in one character and stopped playing. Did the same with Baal a d stopped playing. Haven't really touched it since. Tried a while back in 2010 to show the Wife as she looked interested in D3. That just last4d about 5 min before I uninstalled it again.

    But being a purist and against change, good thing you van still play the original.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by EntertainmentNihilist View Post
    What does "didn't age too well" even mean in this context? I still enjoy D2 far more than most modern games. There's a bit of weird clunk with the stat system & a few other things - but none of those things even come close to ruining it for me. The game is wonderful.
    Old systems and gameplay that have since been modernized and have grown far superior to D2. I think you know very well what was meant. There is a reason why D2R is scoring below D2. It's because it's a game trapped 20 years in the past. Which is fine. That's what it was intended to be.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    The reason d2 was a wild success was it was on bnet 1.0, which was the pinnacle of blizzard social play. The remaster is a mere shadow of what made d2 fun because the bnet ecosystem was destroyed by blizz.

    You could try to add QoL but thats the wrong path and will fail. The social play must be brought back which blizz refuses to do.

    Without bnet 1.0 propping up d2,you might as well play torchlight 2. Better graphics and gameplay in an ARPG.
    Not really. By most estimates less than 10% ever ve turned online if you go off the 4M sold number, significantly less if you go on the 12-17M estimate. Take out online players, it still would have been one of the fastest a d best selling PC games of that time. Socialization had nothing to do with it.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    ? What is pinnacle then? The final game in a genre to make that game? D2 was the pinnacle of ARPG for over a decade, no game since can make the the claim of being the best since (unless you want to insert your own opinion). More so it was completely undisputed, which again no current game can make.



    See I would 100% disagree, I think even D1 was better designed than PoE.
    It wasnt the pinnacle of anything and thats a simple fact, and it has never once been aclaimed that D2 is the best aRPG because its just the opinion on hardcore D2 fans and thats it.

    If you think D1 is better designed than PoE then you are just lying for the sake of trying to back your point up, even someone that hates PoE can clearly see its better made, games get better as time goes by thats just what happens.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    It wasnt the pinnacle of anything and thats a simple fact, and it has never once been aclaimed that D2 is the best aRPG because its just the opinion on hardcore D2 fans and thats it.

    If you think D1 is better designed than PoE then you are just lying for the sake of trying to back your point up, even someone that hates PoE can clearly see its better made, games get better as time goes by thats just what happens.
    ummm no. It is a simple fact that when D2 was released it was acclaimed as the best ARPG ever. It held that title for over a decade without contention.

    I have 25 hours in PoE trying to enjoy it, I couldn't, not even a little. The combat was boring at best, the skills/talent tree is the most convulted abomination every created, it is a needlessly large micro gain mess that is fucking trash design. I have yet to meet a PoE player that could explain the story, as it barely exists. I COULD NOT be paid to play that game again, its fucking awful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    ummm no. It is a simple fact that when D2 was released it was acclaimed as the best ARPG ever. It held that title for over a decade without contention.

    I have 25 hours in PoE trying to enjoy it, I couldn't, not even a little. The combat was boring at best, the skills/talent tree is the most convulted abomination every created, it is a needlessly large micro gain mess that is fucking trash design. I have yet to meet a PoE player that could explain the story, as it barely exists. I COULD NOT be paid to play that game again, its fucking awful.
    Being the best for a while and being the pinnacle of a genre is two completely different things.

    The combat is an evolved form of other aRPGs so you are just insulting D2 gameplay because all hack and slash games play the same at the core, what makes them different is the choices available to the player.

    Story ingames means nothing, diablo is just the standard angel and demon stuff nothing special and the games dont really tell that much of a story to begin with, its just to fill the game out a little more.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    So let's say in an ideal world, the Remaster does gangbusters sales and they dedicate a dev team to making a new expansion for D2, kinda like how Age of Empires 2 has had a modern resurgence with their modern expansion packs.

    What content would you like to see in a theoretical post-Worldstone shattering expansion?

    Which new continent would you like to explore? What new enemies or bosses would you like to see? New features? New Classes?
    That would be awesome. If they added a new expansion like LoD with a new act and even ONE new class, I'd be on cloud nine.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •