[What If] Diablo 2 Expansion after the Remaster

[Triceron]

I'd be a bit worried an expansion could change the game too much, but if the original pre-expenasion game is always available, why not?

Personally I just want them to spice the game up by buffing weak/unused skills so more skill combos become a thing. Probably some endgame content stuff that could be a progressive challenge. Not like rifts in D3 though, something like "kill diablo clone, unlocks killing uber tristram" kind of challenge that require skill/gear farming

This is more in line with what I'd expect out of an expansion.

Pretty much similar to the content that current mods provide with more world bosses or mini zones for the end-game, and a few new crafting mechanics like the Worldstone Shards in ProjectD2 which adds a gambling component to augmenting items. I think that'd spice it up nicely, and as an expansion be completely optional to those who choose to play with this modification in mind.

I think a best-case scenario could be completely incorporating a mod into the game as an official 'paid DLC' expansion. Exactly what the new Binding of Isaac: Repentance pack will be doing by incorporating the fan-made Antibirth mod.

[TheRainman]

That's pretty much what Diablo Immortal is supposed to be.

Right. I just have absolutely zero interest in playing mobile games. I would, however, be all about a direct diablo 2 sequel or expansion on PC, same dark and gritty feel. Same style talent trees, etc. Diablo Immortal looks like a mobile version of Diablo 3. The only similarity between Diablo Immortal and what I would be interested in is the chronology. The rest they can keep.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Right. I just have absolutely zero interest in playing mobile games. I would, however, be all about a direct diablo 2 sequel or expansion on PC, same dark and gritty feel. Same style talent trees, etc. Diablo Immortal looks like a mobile version of Diablo 3. The only similarity between Diablo Immortal and what I would be interested in is the chronology. The rest they can keep.

i get that. I'm just saying that that's the plan they have for filling that time period between D2 and D3. It makes any story-related expansions for D2:R pretty unlikely. I would say the most people can hope for in that regard would be a PC and/or Console port of Immortal. Not knowing exactly how it's going to play on the mobile makes it hard to say how well they could accomplish such a port.

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Right. I just have absolutely zero interest in playing mobile games. I would, however, be all about a direct diablo 2 sequel or expansion on PC, same dark and gritty feel. Same style talent trees, etc. Diablo Immortal looks like a mobile version of Diablo 3. The only similarity between Diablo Immortal and what I would be interested in is the chronology. The rest they can keep.

i get that. I'm just saying that that's the plan they have for filling that time period between D2 and D3. That all by itself would make any story-related expansions for D2:R pretty unlikely. The fact that they are working on D4 also, all by itself, would make any expansions of D2:R also very unlikely. Combining those two things together...

I would say the most people can hope for in that regard would be a PC and/or Console port of Immortal. Not knowing exactly how it's going to play on the mobile makes it hard to say how well they could accomplish such a port.

[Kaleredar]

Harmy's despecialized Star Wars cuts, Maple Film's 4-hour Hobbit cut. A2MR Metroid 2 Remake (before C&D). I think fans can prove themselves capable of holding true to certain visions, and improving upon the originals.

And if you're interested, check out the project I'm working on, Chronicles of the Second War for WC3 Reforged. Our team is remaking Warcraft 2 in a more modern Warcraft lore setting (with plenty of creative liberties). Each kingdom with their own represented visuals, each clan with their own looks, every hero tailored to be as iconic as we remembered them to be.

I don’t doubt that fans can take it upon themselves to create something with no deadlines and no real lasting stake in the product’s success.

But that’s not what blizzard as a company does or how they operate. Or any other major game or film studio.

[Triceron]

I don’t doubt that fans can take it upon themselves to create something with no deadlines and no real lasting stake in the product’s success.

But that’s not what blizzard as a company does or how they operate. Or any other major game or film studio.

Ah, I guess I misunderstood when you said Fan-sanctioned, and interpreted it as fan-generated/created.

But I mean, it's kind of subjective what you'd consider a botched franchise that should be remade properly.

I mean, could Mandalorian considered a successor to the botched Star Wars franchise after Last Jedi? It's everything the fans wanted out of the series. What about the Sonic Movie and their 'miraculous' turnaround based on fan outcry from the trailers? Or No Man's Sky making a huge turnaround.

I think there's ways for companies to pivot on point, it's just a matter of whether the execs get convinced that it's worth saving.

When it comes to Blizzard though, I agree. Fan expectation is high, executive confidence is low. We see plenty of Blizzard products get the shaft as of late, and they just have a habit of 'sweeping under the rug' when things don't go their way.

[Kaleredar]

Ah, I guess I misunderstood when you said Fan-sanctioned, and interpreted it as fan-generated/created.

But I mean, it's kind of subjective what you'd consider a botched franchise that should be remade properly.

I mean, could Mandalorian considered a successor to the botched Star Wars franchise after Last Jedi? It's everything the fans wanted out of the series. What about the Sonic Movie and their 'miraculous' turnaround based on fan outcry from the trailers? Or No Man's Sky making a huge turnaround.

I don't think the mandalorian was reactionary at all. In fact, if ANY of the Star Wars films were "reactionary," it was Rise of Skywalker attempting to "pivot" on the plot points the Last Jedi set up that JJ didn't want to "yes and." Hell I'd say Rise of Skywalker was probably the most naked version of fan service gone wrong I've seen in a long, long time.

Which obviously turned out terribly.

As for Sonic, that wasn't remaking a movie that had already been made, that was intervention... in a sense... in something that hadn't yet come out. The film didn't come out and then have a tremendous rally of fans crying "REDESIGN SONIC!" and then the studio re-released the entire film with a sonic redesign. It was a decision made in the development cycle.

Also, No Man's Sky was an iteration. They didn't release a "landmark video game" that they then strayed from and fans implored them to ultimately return to. They released something very underwhelming which they then iterated upon to a more satisfying result.

I think there's ways for companies to pivot on point, it's just a matter of whether the execs get convinced that it's worth saving.

When it comes to Blizzard though, I agree. Fan expectation is high, executive confidence is low. We see plenty of Blizzard products get the shaft as of late, and they just have a habit of 'sweeping under the rug' when things don't go their way.

I think it's a creative dead end to hold on to the past. Make new things, not iterate on old ones ad infinitum trying to recapture some nostalgia-fueled high from the past. That just leads to ultimately regurgitative, derivative work.

I realize that blizzard is releasing these vanilla games because the amount of work necessary to go into make them is likely very low compared to the ROI. Hell, Vanilla WoW is basically them just releasing old builds of the game and raking in money for almost no developer work put in, especially compared to how much work has to be put in for a new WoW patch for the real game.

But looking at something like Vanilla and saying they should make sequels to these old games, as separate from the sequels they already made, is a terrible combination of legislating design out to people who aren't actually making it, attempting to work within extremely narrow confines, and creating something that ultimately has niche appeal at best. There's no room for creative vision in there, because at the outset you're saying "no no no, you can be creative, but don't be creative the way you were before, because we who are not making the game and are not actually participating in any of the work of its creation didn't like that creativity."

[Triceron]

I think it's a creative dead end to hold on to the past. Make new things, not iterate on old ones ad infinitum trying to recapture some nostalgia-fueled high from the past. That just leads to ultimately regurgitative, derivative work.

I realize that blizzard is releasing these vanilla games because the amount of work necessary to go into make them is likely very low compared to the ROI. Hell, Vanilla WoW is basically them just releasing old builds of the game and raking in money for almost no developer work put in, especially compared to how much work has to be put in for a new WoW patch for the real game.

But looking at something like Vanilla and saying they should make sequels to these old games, as separate from the sequels they already made, is a terrible combination of legislating design out to people who aren't actually making it, attempting to work within extremely narrow confines, and creating something that ultimately has niche appeal at best. There's no room for creative vision in there, because at the outset you're saying "no no no, you can be creative, but don't be creative the way you were before, because we who are not making the game and are not actually participating in any of the work of its creation didn't like that creativity."

Then there's a couple stand out examples which I think would be suitable.

Everquest 1 continued to progress with expansions well into 2020. This is a modern 'backwards' approach, but one that suits the audience of the series the best.



Age of Empires 2 also has seen a modern resurgence, considering it had already seen a sequel with AoE3 which was not seen as successful. Since then, we also have the remaster of AoE2 to go along with the modern released expansions. The latest expansion came out about a month ago.



Again, I think it's a case-by-case scenario, and not just a matter of 'It never happens and it shouldn't because it's backwards'. There's plenty of merit in the classic designs of certain games.

Hell, even Sonic Mania would be an apt example of this. It's literally a compilation of re-imagined Sonic 1-3 zones with a few additional levels in 32-bit graphics, a complete love letter to the fans.


The key takeaway is that these companies are not looking out to make big content for big bucks. They're creating and releasing content that is appropriate to the audience that follows.


And I'll pivot the conversation a bit, but as a currently active player of D2, there's really a bustling community that plays many different variations of this game. It's not just 'Diablo 2', there's Path of Diablo, it's Median Sigma XL, there's PlugY, there's Project Diablo 2. There are many examples of how the gameplay has been taken sideways and reinvigorated, without having to add story content that one might expect from an Expansion. Even if it did add story content, it could easily be treated as side-story content that has no impact on the future development of the series. We could have the unused concepts from D2: Salvation be used to prop up Guild Halls. We could explore an ofshoot island of Skovos that gets sunk by the end of the expansion content. Or we could forfeit new content entirely and simply have the devs focus on bridging in balance changes alone, in a separate expansion environment (to best preserve a D2:LOD remaster).

[SirBeef]

Then there's a couple stand out examples which I think would be suitable.

Everquest 1 continued to progress with expansions well into 2020. This is a modern 'backwards' approach, but one that suits the audience of the series the best.



Age of Empires 2 also has seen a modern resurgence, considering it had already seen a sequel with AoE3 which was not seen as successful. Since then, we also have the remaster of AoE2 to go along with the modern released expansions. The latest expansion came out about a month ago.



Again, I think it's a case-by-case scenario, and not just a matter of 'It never happens and it shouldn't because it's backwards'. There's plenty of merit in the classic designs of certain games.

Hell, even Sonic Mania would be an apt example of this. It's literally a compilation of re-imagined Sonic 1-3 zones with a few additional levels in 32-bit graphics, a complete love letter to the fans.


The key takeaway is that these companies are not looking out to make big content for big bucks. They're creating and releasing content that is appropriate to the audience that follows.


And I'll pivot the conversation a bit, but as a currently active player of D2, there's really a bustling community that plays many different variations of this game. It's not just 'Diablo 2', there's Path of Diablo, it's Median Sigma XL, there's PlugY, there's Project Diablo 2. There are many examples of how the gameplay has been taken sideways and reinvigorated, without having to add story content that one might expect from an Expansion. Even if it did add story content, it could easily be treated as side-story content that has no impact on the future development of the series. We could have the unused concepts from D2: Salvation be used to prop up Guild Halls. We could explore an ofshoot island of Skovos that gets sunk by the end of the expansion content. Or we could forfeit new content entirely and simply have the devs focus on bridging in balance changes alone, in a separate expansion environment (to best preserve a D2:LOD remaster).

I don't think the EQ example is a good one. Maybe if EQ, had stopped being developed for for 18 years, then all of a sudden it got tons of new content, it would make more sense. EQ has been in active development for 25 years now. D2 stopped basically after LoD was released.

Don't know anything about AoE, so I cannot comment. But I doubt D2R will get new content other than bug fixes and potential balance patches.

[Kokolums]

no changes means the game is fun for like 10 hours till you hit hell then realise you have to pray to diablo himself for a high rune to drop to have any chance of doing anything in hell with resistance removing runeword like infinity

You actually break the game doing that. Once you remove all the resistances, you just plow through everything and nothing is a challenge. Making the game faceroll doesn't fix the game. Yikes.

[Triceron]

I don't think the EQ example is a good one. Maybe if EQ, had stopped being developed for for 18 years, then all of a sudden it got tons of new content, it would make more sense. EQ has been in active development for 25 years now. D2 stopped basically after LoD was released.

Don't know anything about AoE, so I cannot comment. But I doubt D2R will get new content other than bug fixes and potential balance patches.

If not Everquest, then Old School Runescape, which had development stop in 2007 (they shifted to new engine), and brought back 6 years later with updated content, and continues on today. Both Runescape and OSR were also added to steam in 2020.

A mobile client of the game for Android and iOS devices was released on 30 October 2018.[22] In under two weeks, it became the most downloaded mobile game in eight different countries, surpassing a million downloads.[23]

In October 2020, following the release of RuneScape 3 on Steam, it was announced that Old School Runescape would arrive on the platform in 2021.[24] Old School RuneScape released on Steam on February 24, 2021.

Like I said, we actually have examples of oldschool or classic style games coming back and getting iterated on. It's not a matter of them being unable to do so or no audience caring. It's just a matter of recognizing the audience exists as a niche, and catering appropriately.

[SirBeef]

If not Everquest, then Old School Runescape, which had development stop in 2007 (they shifted to new engine), and brought back 6 years later with updated content, and continues on today. Both Runescape and OSR were also added to steam in 2020.

A mobile client of the game for Android and iOS devices was released on 30 October 2018.[22] In under two weeks, it became the most downloaded mobile game in eight different countries, surpassing a million downloads.[23]

In October 2020, following the release of RuneScape 3 on Steam, it was announced that Old School Runescape would arrive on the platform in 2021.[24] Old School RuneScape released on Steam on February 24, 2021.

Like I said, we actually have examples of oldschool or classic style games coming back and getting iterated on. It's not a matter of them being unable to do so or no audience caring. It's just a matter of recognizing the audience exists as a niche, and catering appropriately.

Right, when they are the like the only game on the roster. Diablo has a current game and two newer games coming out. D2R is just a modernizing of an old game. It's possible, but highly doubtful.

[brapbrap2022]

Diablo immortal is supposed to be the gap between d2 and d3, if blizzard stopped being faggots they'd bring that game to PC, but they're cocksuckers who want to milk mobile, D2 remastered is just a cash grab done well, they've learned their lesson from warcraft 3: assfucking a legendary game's legacy reforged.

You people really look at blizzard and think they give a fuck?

[RobertoCarlos]

You actually break the game doing that. Once you remove all the resistances, you just plow through everything and nothing is a challenge. Making the game faceroll doesn't fix the game. Yikes.

being able to actually damage more than two bosses isnt "faceroll"

Unless you think 100% immunities when 99% of builds are based on one resistance type is good game design. Yikes.

[Triceron]

being able to actually damage more than two bosses isnt "faceroll"

Unless you think 100% immunities when 99% of builds are based on one resistance type is good game design. Yikes.

While I'm not pro-immunities, there's a definite truth to builds being faceroll if immunities were removed. Immunities were put in place specifically because of the effectiveness of Javazons, Trapsins and all Sorceress builds. They're still pretty effective now, especially if you use ways to break immunities like Conviction Merc, Lower Resist wand, Griffons eye etc.

If they just remove or address immunities other ways, I think it would play too differently from standard LOD.

[zEmini]

Immunities still need to be de-fanged a tad, either through some skills or new items with spell penetration. Another option would to add new magic elements for Paladins/Necros - Holy/Shadow each with enemies having a chance to spawn that immunity. But I would rather see the monsters be 90% resistant instead so they can still be damaged to some extent but your still going to have a hard time if you choose to go one spell school. A more efficient Sorc should always go with two schools. Finally, remove double immunities.

[Nymfomania]

Ill prob rent it or barrow it. Maybe they will put it on game pass.

[Fencers]

How and where does one rent PC games in this modern age?

[NineSpine]

Right, when they are the like the only game on the roster. Diablo has a current game and two newer games coming out. D2R is just a modernizing of an old game. It's possible, but highly doubtful.

OSRS is called "old school" because it was replaced with a new Runescape. Enough people preferred the old version that they moved it back into active development.

[SirBeef]

OSRS is called "old school" because it was replaced with a new Runescape. Enough people preferred the old version that they moved it back into active development.

I understand that. D2R still isn't getting new content.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I think the biggest road block is the team that is doing the work when it comes to new content. They are pretty much remake / remaster specialists. Not ground up development types. Sure they can tinker with what is under the hood to modify a car but probably not as good at designing and building a new car. From what it looks like they are doing it would also take like building the old game and then layering the stuff on top of it to maintain play feel and style. Not to say I wouldn't love to see new stuff for the old girl, but I am firmly in the camp of "don't hold your breath". More time and high success of course can change that. But that is where things will start and need to take off from.