Have We Become Overly Critical?

[Alanar]

They've been giving the community what they want for years and it has made the game worse.

This is to broad. Of a subject to just say that, so Il just say no I dissagree.

[NineSpine]

Considering those were your 2 explicit examples of how classic facilitates many play styles and retail doesn’t...

No, I listed what I do and how I can do that while others who want to raid log can raid log.

[schwarzkopf]

The issue is Blizzard very often shows the are ignorant of their own customers

Thanks for demonstrating my point.

[NineSpine]

This is to broad. Of a subject to just say that, so Il just say no I dissagree.

Everything wrong with the game right now is a case of allowing players to design the game. Torghast was suposed to be roguelite, and to a certain extent it was in beta.

"But dying feels bad!"
"But runs are too long!"
"But the other guy has better powers than me!"
"Blah blah blah blah!"

And now it's a shitshow.

Everyone wants to see the raids, so LFR will make the game better, right? No, it's terrible.

[VinceVega]

I like the game it is now.
I don't think wow is doing bad. Otherwise they would have gone back to classic concept for the game. But we do NOT have the numbers. We can only guess.
People get their privates in a twist the moment they do not get what they want right now. Gearing will be incredibly boring int he next patch when you get thrown everything at max level into your face in PVP/Mythic+/Raiding...

That being said: People definitly got way more entitled and way more vocal when something is a little bit frustrating, is not available immediatly or is hard. Complaining lets them feel good. Sylvanas gets a full armor: WORLD IS ENDING SJW REEEEEEEEE

[Kelduril]

How exactly does the size of an instance specifically impact on the quality of an MMO? What's the relevance? How do we determine the optimal instance size? What are the lower and upper bounds? If 8 is too small, why is 20 just right?

It's far easier to have a raid team of 8 than 20. So it impacts the quality by lowering the requirements of raiding.

15-25 is just fine.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Another day, another thread where the same people burp the same points whilst being hilariously wrong on everything from "AlL OtHeR MmOs Do It BeTtER" to what constitutes constructive criticism. Apparently, "YOU SUCK!!" is to be considered wisdom that you should take to heart.

Remember that the next time a toddler throws a tantrum. Sit down, ponder what he really means to say.

[NineSpine]

I like the game it is now.
I don't think wow is doing bad. Otherwise they would have gone back to classic concept for the game. But we do NOT have the numbers. We can only guess.
People get their privates in a twist the moment they do not get what they want right now. Gearing will be incredibly boring int he next patch when you get thrown everything at max level into your face in PVP/Mythic+/Raiding...

That being said: People definitly got way more entitled and way more vocal when something is a little bit frustrating, is not available immediatly or is hard. Complaining lets them feel good. Sylvanas gets a full armor: WORLD IS ENDING SJW REEEEEEEEE

You are oversimplifying. Classic and retail play to different audiences. A significant segment of retail players wouldn't like the game if it was more like classic, and sacrificing your existing playerbase (however wrong and deluded I think they are) to attempt to gain a different playerbase is just dumb.

Or, to put it another way: If I serve nothing but shit sandwiches, my clientele will be people who like shit sandwiches. Blizzard is stuck with the people who like shit sandwiches. That's their base for retail now.

[VinceVega]

Another day, another thread where the same people burp the same points whilst being hilariously wrong on everything from "AlL OtHeR MmOs Do It BeTtER" to what constitutes constructive criticism. Apparently, "YOU SUCK!!" is to be considered wisdom that you should take to heart.

Remember that the next time a toddler throws a tantrum. Sit down, ponder what he really means to say.

It's funny isn't it. The people saying every other MMO is doing it better still play wow^^

[NineSpine]

It's far easier to have a raid team of 8 than 20. So it impacts the quality by lowering the requirements of raiding.

15-25 is just fine.

And that's why the classic 40 mans are so much harder than retail mythics, right? No.

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It's funny isn't it. The people saying every other MMO is doing it better still play wow^^

I'm playing classic, so I'll crap on retail all I want.

[Queen of Hamsters]

And that's why the classic 40 mans are so much harder than retail mythics, right? No.

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I'm playing classic, so I'll crap on retail all I want.

Yet you take every chance to whinge if someone "from Retail" dares say toot about Classic...

But what else to expect from someone arrogant enough to think that he's not being served "shit sandwiches" according to everyone that wouldn't touch Classic with a 10 foot pole...

Although I've seen people use that dumb metaphor since 2009, so it's hardly a new phenomenon.

[NineSpine]

Yet you take every chance to whinge if someone "from Retail" dares say toot about Classic...

Find me an example where I told someone they shouldn't talk about classic because they play retail.

[Queen of Hamsters]

It's funny isn't it. The people saying every other MMO is doing it better still play wow^^

Yeah, be it Classic or Retail, they're still paying for WoW. The majority of the funds don't exactly go to keeping the museum moving forward.

Not to mention how hilariously petty you must be to look at the success of a game and go "OH YEAH?? Guess it proves people love shit sandwiches!!!"

No, it doesn't. The way players will crucify and see titles flop says differently. If WoW truly became as bad as some individuals on here are desperate to pretend, it would die.

But it won't. And yet to X people, somehow every single other MMORPG on the market does everything better and fans are just sheep who cannot decide on their own because clearly their taste is inferior to that of the connoisseurs sticking to Classic or one of those other MMORPGs.

Or not, because sod those people.

[NineSpine]

Yeah, be it Classic or Retail, they're still paying for WoW. The majority of the funds don't exactly go to keeping the museum moving forward.

So what? I also pay a monthly fee for netflix and don't watch every movie on it.

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"YEAH BUT YOU PAY FOR NETFLIX AND DONT LIKE EVERY MOVIE ON IT LOL!"

[Queen of Hamsters]

Find me an example where I told someone they shouldn't talk about classic because they play retail.

You've done it so many times, along with denying that you've done it and distorting facts, that it's a theme by now.

Just calling out the hypocrisy, not going into yet another shit-flinging fight with you as I don't much fancy chimp-behaviour these days.

The amount of times that you told people to leave the Classic forum if they didn't like Classic makes it simply astonishing.

[baskev]

It's no secret who supports Blizz and who crucifies them with every, single decision; however, I have to wonder...

have we become overcritical of a 15 year old MMO that continues to get updates? Ultima Online, EverQuest and World of Warcraft have been around for a long while and still have a large and dedicated fanbase, yet other MMOs like Aion, LotRO, Warhammer, Age of Conan, and even Guild Wars 2 all set out to dethrone the long standing favorites and eventually faded into nothingness. What do you suppose prevents some players from just being excited to still have new content and millions of other players?

Yes, lets be real. People complain about a lot. Flying this, tier sets that. Game sucks etc.
But after 16 years ( or 17) and still has a player base between 4,5 to 5 million depends on what source etc.

And i think it also has to be with people not reading, think or looking beyond their own opinion. They are critical because they want or think x,y or z. But do not look at the text what has been written. Only what they want to read. And become jade/critical because of that.

as example of a other thread i am in:
Blizzard says flying comes sooner....but that is not soon enough. So they did not listen and give what we want. Or they should fix it etc etc.

Not seeing that they did listen by making it come sooner. And that just overhauling every system people do not like is not a simple option. Yes flying needs fixing, so does pvp, raid gear, faction imbalance etc etc etc.

[NineSpine]

You've done it so many times, along with denying that you've done it and distorting facts, that it's a theme by now.

Just calling out the hypocrisy, not going into yet another shit-flinging fight with you as I don't much fancy chimp-behaviour these days.

Great, show me the example.

[Nobleshield]

I think a lot of criticism is the fact they've completely gone 180 from how they were doing and what we essentially have right now is a brand new game. We basically have WoW 2 without them having to make a new game. Everything about the modern game is a total 180 from the game as most people remember/prefer it.

[Kelduril]

And that's why the classic 40 mans are so much harder than retail mythics, right? No.

From a purely organisatorial point of view, definitely. Losing your main tank in Naxxramas basically kills the guild if you don't have a really good spare.

Mechanics wise, no.

[Alanar]

Everything wrong with the game right now is a case of allowing players to design the game. Torghast was suposed to be roguelite, and to a certain extent it was in beta.

"But dying feels bad!"
"But runs are too long!"
"But the other guy has better powers than me!"
"Blah blah blah blah!"

And now it's a shitshow.

Everyone wants to see the raids, so LFR will make the game better, right? No, it's terrible.

Idk man.. like I said there just to many thing that feel like an opinion and just to broad to just flatley say: its because of the players. I can sum up a list as well where feedback was given and none was used. Your game works because you and I play and pay, so they better listen. But like I said as well this feels like an entire different company then when I first started playing in vanilla.

Thorghast is a good example why it seems you dont get it.
Thorghast in their eyes was a player and developer mix of feedback and working together. It didnt turn out that way because they didnt listen and you see the effect on live servers. Throghast was a fail and mostly fire and forget. Now that everyone got their legendary there is no reason to do it anymore. There are alot of vids on youtube about streamers who provided feedback and were shocked at the final changes they made at the end.