Have We Become Overly Critical?

[NineSpine]

Well, as a long time player always well below the curve but currently having lots of fun I would say that ( overtly unnecessary) criticism is the ‘cry for help’ from people who should un-sub but just can’t ( friends in game and or time invested being the main reasons I suppose). Starting a new to you mmo immediately puts you at a disadvantage if you want to ( avoid toxic elitists) be good at the game, even with fast reflexes and a good rig the amount of time to do your homework and find friends can be daunting- too much for many who, like a battered wife who can’t leave her abusive husband will choose the occasional abuse over the fear of being alone. Blizzard doesn’t care about your feelings but does respond to the vocal minority ( who, egged on by content creators who think everyone can ‘git gud’ with homework and achieve goals labeled ‘normal’ with a little effort-aka watching their content etc). A brand new player is likely not going to find friends quickly or be able to use the QOL items long time players take for granted and thus get the toxicity and ultimately quit before their investment needs more capital so keeping the battered veterans who have paid hundreds or thousands of dollars to maintain the game would be their focus. Just my opinion!

This is a problem in wow, not a problem in MMOs in general. Wow has a uniquely toxic community among MMOs because of how much the game caters to toxic elitists,

[Gaidax]

That's because cool kids like complaining about issues, that's how you get dem views.

[SirBeef]

"people hate this system" is valid infomration. Did you forget whose job it is to design the game? Not the player.

What relevant information do devs get by that? It offers no I sight as to what is disliked, or what could make it better. Seriously, use your brain.

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dont call it feedback, its not, its pointless whining without any base whatsoever

Should have put feedback in quotations.

[Kelduril]

GW2 doesn’t have a sub fee.

Weird how you didn’t mention FF14 or SWTOR, both games with insane amounts of story content that makes wow’s story look like a dated, linear joke.

Weird how you didn’t mention Eve, a game with an unparalleled sandbox and community structure.

At this point, wow is barely an MMO anyway. It’s more comparable to looters in a lot of ways, so we could also compare it to games like Destiny, which also offer a ton of things wow seems fundamentally incapable of doing, like actually interesting endgame loops and horizontal progression,

SWTOR has nothing outside the story and FF14 looks like a game made in 2010.

At this point, wow is barely an MMO anyway

Lol. What size are FF's ''dungeons'' again? 8 people?

Lmao

[Elkfingers]

All criticism is constructive criticism. There is nothing wrong with providing feedback.

It's not though. That's why we have the term constructive criticism. If all criticism was constructive, there would be no need to explicitly label some criticism as constructive to distinguish it from other criticism which isn't.

I'm kinda shook that I just had to explain this to an adult human ngl.

I believe that it is up to the criticized to make criticism constructive, not the criticizer. Even something as unintelligible as "you fucking suck" can improve someone if they allow it.

You can believe what you want, but that's clearly not how this works. If you had to do all the work to find the problem, the criticism wasn't constructive. "You suck" is useless - it doesn't tell us what somebody is doing wrong, or even if there is actually anything wrong in the first place. This is why teachers' jobs involve more than just saying "You suck at the subject I'm teaching".

If you have to 'make the criticism constructive', then the language literally implies that it wasn't constructive to begin with. That's how making things works. If you have to make something, then it wasn't a thing to begin with. It's like if you bought an empty plot of land and tried to sell it as a house because it's up to the owner to build the house. It's not a house, my dude.

Just say you're ok with people being toxic fucks. It's fine. We don't need to pretend that useless complaining is actually some real 10head shit.

[username993720]

I think we are at about 78% critical strike chance

[ONCHEhap]

Can some people be overly critical? Yeah.

The good news is criticism is a sign people still care.

I actually see a lot of good criticism too. Long posts with well thought out feedback.

a lot of the people around here (not the one posting actually good or useful feedback) seem to be trapped in a situation where they're hopelessly addicted to WoW even though they don't enjoy it anymore.
That's why you see them ripping into the game,saying it's terrible,or saying that WoW is dead,it's because they subconsciously want the game to fail so that they can be "freed" from it,even if they don't realise it

[NineSpine]

SWTOR has nothing outside the story and FF14 looks like a game made in 2010.



Lol. What size are FF's ''dungeons'' again? 8 people?

Lmao

Thanks for proving my point. Wow has deluded you into thinking instance size makes something an MMO. Is fortnite an MMO because the matches have lots of players?

And FF14 has 4, 8, and 24 player content, so I’m not even sure what point you are making except proving to everyone you don’t know what you are talking about.

[mbit]

What relevant information do devs get by that? It offers no I sight as to what is disliked, or what could make it better. Seriously, use your brain.

Devs cant fix everything. Most hated feature is important to know for what needs to be fixed first. A priority list is elementary. Fucking ironic that you would complain about brain use.

[erifwodahs]

The next patch being in early development this long into the expansion indicates a problem, a serious problem.

Wow does not pump out as much content as you think it does. It does a better job of making you repeat content, but there’s not as much content there as you are acting like there is.

The servers have population indicators on them. This isn’t rocket science.

Servers do have population indicators on them, true, but you need to put into a reference otherwise it's useless. To have a reliable reference you need to have numbers, which we don't have. Then put it in perspective of total population between the games which we don't have either.

Indicates a problem? I mean the one which caused a delayed expansion, crunch and then went into the holiday period. Not released patch is not bad, it's just not released. It can only be bad when they release it and it only has selfie camera or is somehow broken/non functional.
These arguments are so stretched out that it just shows bias. It's not that there are no issues with retail wow, or classic or tbc or any version of any game and there always will be players who have issues with the game because as long as you have 2 players they will have different opinion on the direction it is going.

[Fitsu]

Not just WoW, everything. People are much more entilted now than they once were.

I've always felt Diablo 3 was the perfect example of this, it didn't deliver the same experience as Diablo 2 (something that was impossible as nothing is going to compare to your first online experience when you was 13 years old) and as such labelled it a complete failure. I recall people who had over 1000 hours in the game complaining that they was now bored just because they found Diablo 2 fun for years. Like, imagine being so self-entilted that you complain you ONLY got 1000 hours of fun out of a £60 experience....

And people would complain that a game with no in-game shop, sub or monetization at all beyond buying the game only receives some content/balance patches years later. Even though quite honestly we got a huge amount of free content for the game after release, when in reality the amount of enjoyment one could get from the base game alone was easily equal to other experiences at the same price point.

People have become spoilt and entilted, they feel they deserve everything and any little thing they dislike instantly ruins the game and if it doesn't meet impossible expectations that instantly makes it a failure with no inbetween. I can't wait for people to find the most obscure, absurd reason (I bet that someone will somehow say the shared stash ruins the experience) to claim D2R is a failure because it doesn't give them the same joy it gave them all those years ago.

[MHMabrito]

In other news, fire is hot and water is wet.

water is not wet.

[NineSpine]

Servers do have population indicators on them, true, but you need to put into a reference otherwise it's useless. To have a reliable reference you need to have numbers, which we don't have. Then put it in perspective of total population between the games which we don't have either.

Indicates a problem? I mean the one which caused a delayed expansion, crunch and then went into the holiday period. Not released patch is not bad, it's just not released. It can only be bad when they release it and it only has selfie camera or is somehow broken/non functional.
These arguments are so stretched out that it just shows bias. It's not that there are no issues with retail wow, or classic or tbc or any version of any game and there always will be players who have issues with the game because as long as you have 2 players they will have different opinion on the direction it is going.

Fact: wow classic launched with too few servers.
Fact: blizzard created a large number of additional servers.
Fact: A year and a half later there have been no server merges and the population indicators indicate a healthy population.

You are welcome to be mad that those are the facts, but those are the facts. It has nothing to do with whether retail has more players. Blizzard underestimated how many people would play classic and for how long they’d play it. That’s just the truth. Being upset about it won’t change it.

The first major patch has traditionally come about four months into the expansion. We are months into the expansion and the patch is in early development? Thats insane. It should have been out of early development before the expansion even launched.

[mbit]

Not just WoW, everything. People are much more entilted now than they once were.

I've always felt Diablo 3 was the perfect example of this, it didn't deliver the same experience as Diablo 2 (something that was impossible as nothing is going to compare to your first online experience when you was 13 years old) and as such labelled it a complete failure. I recall people who had over 1000 hours in the game complaining that they was now bored just because they found Diablo 2 fun for years. Like, imagine being so self-entilted that you complain you ONLY got 1000 hours of fun out of a £60 experience....

And people would complain that a game with no in-game shop, sub or monetization at all beyond buying the game only receives some content/balance patches years later. Even though quite honestly we got a huge amount of free content for the game after release, when in reality the amount of enjoyment one could get from the base game alone was easily equal to other experiences at the same price point.

People have become spoilt and entilted, they feel they deserve everything and any little thing they dislike instantly ruins the game and if it doesn't meet impossible expectations that instantly makes it a failure with no inbetween. I can't wait for people to find the most obscure, absurd reason (I bet that someone will somehow say the shared stash ruins the experience) to claim D2R is a failure because it doesn't give them the same joy it gave them all those years ago.

Old games didnt force you on company servers. Since the companies dont allow people to run private servers its on them to keep things alive. Their own fault.

[NineSpine]

Not just WoW, everything. People are much more entilted now than they once were.

I've always felt Diablo 3 was the perfect example of this, it didn't deliver the same experience as Diablo 2 (something that was impossible as nothing is going to compare to your first online experience when you was 13 years old) and as such labelled it a complete failure. I recall people who had over 1000 hours in the game complaining that they was now bored just because they found Diablo 2 fun for years. Like, imagine being so self-entilted that you complain you ONLY got 1000 hours of fun out of a £60 experience....

And people would complain that a game with no in-game shop, sub or monetization at all beyond buying the game only receives some content/balance patches years later. Even though quite honestly we got a huge amount of free content for the game after release, when in reality the amount of enjoyment one could get from the base game alone was easily equal to other experiences at the same price point.

People have become spoilt and entilted, they feel they deserve everything and any little thing they dislike instantly ruins the game and if it doesn't meet impossible expectations that instantly makes it a failure with no inbetween. I can't wait for people to find the most obscure, absurd reason (I bet that someone will somehow say the shared stash ruins the experience) to claim D2R is a failure because it doesn't give them the same joy it gave them all those years ago.

I don’t think that this is true at all. I think that there is a subset of players that act like this, and in wow they are the meta slaves that aren’t really hardcore raiders but kind of posture as such and convince themselves that reading icy veins guides makes them special.

Hardcore players don’t act like that. Casual players don’t act like that. And again, this is mainly a retail problem. The classic community accepts all the weird sharp edges and friction in classic because it makes the whole package better (in most cases, but fuck world buffs). This has to do with the community retail has fostered through the game design.

[Kelduril]

Thanks for proving my point. Wow has deluded you into thinking instance size makes something an MMO. Is fortnite an MMO because the matches have lots of players?

One of those Ms comes from massive so I don't know what Galaxy Brain shit you're trying to pull.

Though I wasn't arguing that instance size makes a game an MMO. I was just mocking FF's endgame.

Compared to Mythic raids it looks like a joke.

[erifwodahs]

Fact: wow classic launched with too few servers.
Fact: blizzard created a large number of additional servers.
Fact: A year and a half later there have been no server merges and the population indicators indicate a healthy population.

You are welcome to be mad that those are the facts, but those are the facts. It has nothing to do with whether retail has more players. Blizzard underestimated how many people would play classic and for how long they’d play it. That’s just the truth. Being upset about it won’t change it.

The first major patch has traditionally come about four months into the expansion. We are months into the expansion and the patch is in early development? Thats insane. It should have been out of early development before the expansion even launched.

Again, you are now concluding that I am mad, somehow You are presenting "facts" but don't actually provide any statistics and still are talking about what should have been done for current patch. You are the one who this topic is about. Stretching and twisting opinions, not listening at all on what has been said just so you can "validate" your arguments.
Yes, patch is late. There are obvious reasons for that which are mostly affecting whole world, but you keep ignoring that and use the patch being late/largely not presented as a support for I don't even know what your argument is. It just feels that you have nothing better to support it with. If retail becomes worse than classic, people will move over and that is it. We are yet to see that happening.

[Elkfingers]

One of those Ms comes from massive so I don't know what Galaxy Brain shit you're trying to pull.

Massively Multiplayer. It specifically refers to the number of players, but not the number of players in a single, specific location/instance. Like, did you think that it meant that everything has to be really big? Massive=/Massively - Massively is an adverb, and in this case it modifies the word Multiplayer. Small brain takes here dude.

[NineSpine]

One of those Ms comes from massive so I don't know what Galaxy Brain shit you're trying to pull.

How large of instance sizes did the first MMOs, which coined the term, have? The answer is 0, because instances didn’t exist back then. The massive refers to the persistent open world, not instance size.

[erifwodahs]

I don’t think that this is true at all. I think that there is a subset of players that act like this, and in wow they are the meta slaves that aren’t really hardcore raiders but kind of posture as such and convince themselves that reading icy veins guides makes them special.

Hardcore players don’t act like that. Casual players don’t act like that. And again, this is mainly a retail problem. The classic community accepts all the weird sharp edges and friction in classic because it makes the whole package better (in most cases, but fuck world buffs). This has to do with the community retail has fostered through the game design.

Dude, why do you have this inferiority complex then? You are coming here to shit on retail with your false "facts" and assumptions is equivalent of WoW players who go into FF video comments to shit on that game they don't even play because they have better alternative. It only displays underlying mental problems.