Carries in Arena are a Problem.

[Marrilaife]

Carries are 100% a problem when even pro players are complaining about not being able to gear their alts through arenas because they're constantly facing gladiators and rank ones doings carries anywhere from 1400-2100.

Pretty sure that same "pro players" are boosting on the side not even mentioning the amount of illegal RMTing that happens under the table.

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Agree, in prior seasons getting 1800 or even 2k wasn't really that big of a deal, but in SL it feels a lot harder. Not sure what exactly the cause is, but it's frustrating to fight gladiators in the 1800 bracket in 2s.

What caused it is Blizz nerfing gear from every other source so people who were buying m+ carries and raid carries, now spend their money on arena carries instead because better bang for their buck.

[Cæli]

Nagura was carried to 2.4k in under 2 hours for her weapon.

And she is self-admittedly shit at pvp


I'm not saying that carries are a huge problem, i'm just syaing that pro players can absolutely carry people. Trill carried an entire guild to 233 weps.

well, if she got "carried" to 2.4, then during the session she was playing well, and she isn't that shit after all, looks like she's just modest instead of bad
you don't carry anyone to 2.4 it's a fact
or MAYBE she played a broken spec and even if that was the case she couldn't sit there all game making the win harder for everyone

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Pretty sure that same "pro players" are boosting on the side not even mentioning the amount of illegal RMTing that happens under the table.

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What caused it is Blizz nerfing gear from every other source so people who were buying m+ carries and raid carries, now spend their money on arena carries instead because better bang for their buck.

Considering they stream all their gameplay. I doubt it very much.

[Bats]

I'm not sure the carrying is the problem. Personally the issue is what a huge gap gear creates in arena, most noticeably in 2v2.

I used get 2k pretty much every expansion with friends and with random people in LFG. This time though me and my buddy got stuck at 1.4k. Every other game was against people with better gear, current gladiators or super good comps. At the time I was playing ret with ~200ilvl gear (which is one of the best classes this season) and my buddy was playing MW monk and resto shaman at around 190-195ilvl.

Once we started ret/holy (same ilvl as before) priest we finally had a comp that could outplay people with better gear that weren't super good players. We climbed to 1.6k in 3-4 hours but it felt like we climbed from 1.8k to 2k in previous season. We're about to go for he 1800 push now that I'm 213 and he is 205. I suspect it's going to be a similar case, maybe a bit harder as players might get better but we'll see.

What they're doing with PvP gear MIGHT help with this type of issue where it's quite difficult to catch up on gear unless you're doing RBGs. I'm not sure though, if the player power for 10ilvl difference is as huge as it is now, we'll have the same problem for players who are catching up.

[clevin]

Totally agree. On a side note, ultimately i think that the ilvl gear / power gap is so huge already that it puts pvp in a pretty bed spot imo. Powercreep from gear should be toned down quite a bit.

*cough* remember when they had PVP gear not provide much of an advantage? "But then I don't have any incentive to play!!!"

[Bats]

*cough* remember when they had PVP gear not provide much of an advantage? "But then I don't have any incentive to play!!!"

It should prove an advantage, just not this huge. Why does it have to always be either extreme with everything?

[clevin]

But at the same time there's not really a good fix. A friend of mine just leveled an Enhance shaman, he's 190 ilvl and wanted 1600 so I got him there and he'll hit 1800 this week. He didn't pay me, we've been friends since BC and I was just helping him out and we were having fun, so should that not be allowed? Just because I'm 2400+ in 3v3 I can't do low rated 2s with friends? That's pretty obviously ridiculous.

is it though? If the system matches you, a 2400 rated player and your friend who's 1600 with 2 people who are 1600, then sure, you and your pal have fun... at the expense of the other two people.

The way I'd address that is to blend the ratings. Two people at 1600 should be paired against two other who are close to 1600. You and your buddy, though should not end up in the 1600 band. The system should put in you the 2000 band or something like that ((2400+1600)/2 is where I got 2000 from). It's likely not as simple as that averaging but the idea would be to account for you, a very high rated player, being in the group.

[Luxeley]

Well you should've started at the start then. There is a catchup system in place for people who decide to start now and then go to the internet to complain that better players are beating them. You don't need anymore.

So basically you're telling ppl DO NOT play alts either. And, of course, RL stuff can get in the way every now and then too. Sounds to me that you know it's Gear> over skill and you desperately want to keep your competitive advantage cause you know deep inside - let's face it, you lack the skill. I honestly don't blame you, you want to protect your interests, but the truth does hurt.

[Huntermyth]

today was my unluckiest day ever.

over and over, i encountered those shady players whose 3v3 ratings are over 2.5k but 2v2 ratings are 1.2k or even lower. now i am not a good player when it comes to pvp but as a mage - rogue duo it is literally impossible to win against a 41k hp fully decked player. i know, some might win but we can't and i don't think any player struggling around 1.3k can win either. a disc priest out damaging a fire mage is outrageous.

before you say it again, i know, i am bad and all. but i also know that blizzard doesn't and won't care.

[Beet]

Arena is an abomination. Remove it.

And then have Bgs no one cares about as the only PvP? Hell, PvP in WoW has never been as dead as it is now. Let people have their arenas while there’s still a little interest.

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Gear needs to be removed from Arenas, it should just be about cosmetics.

If you want gear, go do pve.

Yeah they disagreed with this and is the entire reason why they added PvP gear the way they did in TBC. You’re about a decade and a half too late to make this argument.

[Jujudrood]

The easiest solution to this would be to eliminate the carry concept in rated arenas.
Choose a threshold, such as 200 rating, and if every member of the group is not within that range between the highest and lowest rated people, you simply cannot queue for rated arenas.
If you are 2.4k and want to sell a carry to a 1.4k, well too bad, you can play unrated crap all day every day, but your little buddy won't see a lick of rating from you because you exceed the threshold, thus cannot queue for rated content.
Bye bye carries, bye bye boosts, no more free max level weps.

[mbit]

change matchmaking to place boosters against boosters. Look at mmr difference in team. If its over 300 and one dude is over 2k place them in the booster matchmaking group. Done.
The problem isn't finding a solution, they can easily come up with something like that too, so the problem is that they don't care or want to kill boosters farming noobs.

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The easiest solution to this would be to eliminate the carry concept in rated arenas.
Choose a threshold, such as 200 rating, and if every member of the group is not within that range between the highest and lowest rated people, you simply cannot queue for rated arenas.
If you are 2.4k and want to sell a carry to a 1.4k, well too bad, you can play unrated crap all day every day, but your little buddy won't see a lick of rating from you because you exceed the threshold, thus cannot queue for rated content.
Bye bye carries, bye bye boosts, no more free max level weps.

Wouldn't kill boosts, it would make it more expensive. Boosters would just play an alt down to your rating and then play up again with you.

[h8ryan]

2v2 is the booster bracket

if you're looking for any semblance of balance in 2v2 after arena has been out for like 15 years then it's a you problem

you getting outplayed by a paladin who didn't know wtf they were doing is embarrassing

take your pick, but 2v2 has been and never will be balanced and you're probably just not that great at the game to begin with

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also you can't just carry anyone to 2400, they have to be competent

[Recovery]

Lol, what a load of rubbish the above in bold is.
Inflation is there for sure, such as in the last season of BFA, but it's no where near as high as previous and to say it's equivalent to 1.4-1.6k is absurd. I got 2k in WotLK literally clicking half of my abilities, in what was probably only my second ever season playing arena. I was awful (though I'm still not great :P) and so were my pve guildies who also sat between 1.6-2k. Getting to 2k this season has been significantly more difficult than back then.

Referring to OP, as someone currently playing an alt in the 1700s bracket I'd say boosting is rampant, my friend and I will often armory people after a game if they've had large health pools and I don't think it an exaggeration to say at least 25% of our games currently are against people boosting.

You see, the thing is... Getting 2k is harder now because the average players is alot better now than the average player was in wotlk. I think its fair to say that 2k IS average now. And what i mean by average is... in a pool of people who actually play arena seriously and dont just q now and then for giggs, 2k is average.

This is due to information being much easier to access by streamers, youtube, etc. So honestly, 2k now is probably like 1700-1800 pre legion. There are things that average players know to do now that they didnt know in wotlk. Examples: Priests deathing sheeps, blinds, etc. Fire mages Klepto cancelling combust. Rogues juking people off of the bridge on blades edge. The little tricks that we used to get ahead of the curve in past expansions are done by even the most average players now... not to mention you have addons tracking every CD in the game and even addons that yell everything that happens into you ears (looking at you lossa).

I mean this with the most sincerity. At this point, the most skillful thing that you can do in arena is know how / when / where to position yourself. I win so many games that i could have lost just because the other teams' position is deadful.

I think alot of people who are looking forward to TBC are going to be very disappointed when they dont jump to glad the first 2 weeks of play. like they did in actual TBC.

[clevin]

It should prove an advantage, just not this huge. Why does it have to always be either extreme with everything?

That's the problem, though. There likely isn't a sweet spot where PVP gear would be an advantage without being a noticeable one. And if you make PVP gear only a marginal advantage, then you get the 'why am I forced to raid/M+ to be decently geared for PVP' complaint.


They tried in the past to add things like resilience and backed off it, but I think that's the way to go. Make PVP gear have additional stats that help you but only in PVP. You can use it in PVE but it wont be as good there as the item oriented, that piece won't be optimal.

[Recovery]

That's the problem, though. There likely isn't a sweet spot where PVP gear would be an advantage without being a noticeable one. And if you make PVP gear only a marginal advantage, then you get the 'why am I forced to raid/M+ to be decently geared for PVP' complaint.


They tried in the past to add things like resilience and backed off it, but I think that's the way to go. Make PVP gear have additional stats that help you but only in PVP. You can use it in PVE but it wont be as good there as the item oriented, that piece won't be optimal.

I agree with this 100%. Resilience was king. It did have its issues.. Mainly indirectly making healers too strong, but that is fixed now, with dampening. Id love for blizz to bring resil back for pvp. It keeps pvp gear the best gear for pvp and makes it all but worthless in pve, especially with secondary stats being strong.

[Jujudrood]

change matchmaking to place boosters against boosters. Look at mmr difference in team. If its over 300 and one dude is over 2k place them in the booster matchmaking group. Done.
The problem isn't finding a solution, they can easily come up with something like that too, so the problem is that they don't care or want to kill boosters farming noobs.

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Wouldn't kill boosts, it would make it more expensive. Boosters would just play an alt down to your rating and then play up again with you.

True, but it would deter it some due to time commitments of "tanking" back down and yoyo-ing your rating level.
That tanking though would bring up a different type of "accidental boosting" problems, where the opposing team doesn't mean to boost but is handed wins, so maybe that would offset the real boosts?

[Trend]

Nagura was carried to 2.4k in under 2 hours for her weapon.

And she is self-admittedly shit at pvp


I'm not saying that carries are a huge problem, i'm just syaing that pro players can absolutely carry people. Trill carried an entire guild to 233 weps.

I watched a decent chunk of it, and she is not that bad, she is humble. Part of it is the spec she is playing but she's easily a 2.1 calibre player, so teaming with a R1 hpala to get to 2.4 isn't exactly a total carry like you're making it sound.

Trill "carried" some of the best players on the planet to get 233 weapons. These are people who execute nearly flawlessly after learning very quickly. I doubt even Trill could carry the average WoW player to 2400 in 2's.

[Rucati]

is it though? If the system matches you, a 2400 rated player and your friend who's 1600 with 2 people who are 1600, then sure, you and your pal have fun... at the expense of the other two people.

The way I'd address that is to blend the ratings. Two people at 1600 should be paired against two other who are close to 1600. You and your buddy, though should not end up in the 1600 band. The system should put in you the 2000 band or something like that ((2400+1600)/2 is where I got 2000 from). It's likely not as simple as that averaging but the idea would be to account for you, a very high rated player, being in the group.

So do you just take the highest rating in any bracket? Because my 2v2 rating is only like 1700 right now, so if I'm queueing 2s it wouldn't make much sense to go off my 2500 3v3 rating. I mean it's possible I hit 2500 as a Holy Paladin but I queue 2s as a Ret Paladin (I don't, just an example) so you can't really queue people based off other brackets.

The only real fix would be to make players all only have one rating for both 2s and 3s because then people wouldn't want to tank rating and there'd be an actual penalty to it, but that would have so much backlash because it would severely limit who you could play with.

[Razion]

Carries in Arena are a problem, yeah. It's obviously not in the nature of competition, and it sullies the rewards' and status' integrity and prestige.

They could take away the rewards from Arena/PvP, but that just makes normal players miserable.
They could power up teams that kill a player, making it harder for people to carry, but this arguably just makes normal players miserable.
They could make coordination more important, but this could also make normal players miserable.
They could make the meta even more explosive, but arguably this is where we're at now.
They could use other kinds of MMR/Matchmaking filtering, but people would just make new accounts or use misdirecting services.
PvP could turn into exclusively a 1v1 mode, but people would just pay for other people to play for them and they'd just end up getting their accounts/systems compromised.

Frankly the best thing they could do about it is actually just put a ban on it and actively go after people who are doing this. They'd have to ban faster and easier than the rate people can get into a position to carry, or people just get banned in these slow waves and just go back faster than they get banned.