Squishiest tank in mythic raiding ?

[arkanon]

We just had a whole expension with that ridiculous difference in tanking and you dare to claim that PLAYER SKILL involved in tanking is the deciding factor if a tank spec is good or bad? Ridiculous!

You are so utterly confused i really don't know where to start - and you are SO confident in what you are saying! How DARE i suggest that a skilled DK will time their DS to maximize healing and reduce healing required - HOW DARE I SAY THAT!. Honestly, you are just confused. Very, VERY confused.

And fyi, the reason BRM will sometimes take a while to die is that stagger cannot kill you (unless they changed it) but any single other hit will.

[Frozenbro]

While in raids the difference in tanks matters much less the main reasons a progression guild brings certain classes is for thier buffs, its very important for early progression especially when some classes actually need gear to be useful or require to be fixed so the class is not useless, so your the one actually being naive.

Read my later response then xd i didnt talk about what they offer buff wise, i referred to their cooldowns as a spec, and indeed they werent brought to WF for that, any tank is enough, but their dps counterparts were dogshit so the solution was vdh + prot warr.

[kenn9530]

Read my later response then xd i didnt talk about what they offer buff wise, i referred to their cooldowns as a spec, and indeed they werent brought to WF for that, any tank is enough, but their dps counterparts were dogshit so the solution was vdh + prot warr.

While i agree most tanks can get away with doing mythic content, in WF progression the only reason a warr is in the group is to cover the buff as the dps warr was not suitable, 1 warrior spot is essential in the raid and with how bad the dps version was a tank is the only way to bring the buffs.

[LedZeppelin]

While i agree most tanks can get away with doing mythic content, in WF progression the only reason a warr is in the group is to cover the buff as the dps warr was not suitable, 1 warrior spot is essential in the raid and with how bad the dps version was a tank is the only way to bring the buffs.

pretty sure limit had an arms warrior. rallying cry is just that good

[kenn9530]

pretty sure limit had an arms warrior. rallying cry is just that good

Thats why i said a warr buff is essential so there was only 2 options, best would of been having the warrior tank so a more effective dps could be brought but the dps difference should only be small anyway even though warr was not great to begin with, many fights in CN are not great for mellee to start with.

[Raisei]

DKs are still spiky, but only squishy if there is an endless barrage of spikes, because they will eventually run out of Runic Power to heal. So fights like Sludgefist and Denathrius last phase might be tough since both do very hard melee hits. And in M+ there is the same risk, you might just get hit so hard so fast you can't outheal it. On top of that you have an issue whenever mobility is needed. There was some buffing a few weeks ago, so it might be better now, but when I was playing DK at the start of the expansion it was quite miserable.

Paladins are very strong as long as they got their shield up, during downtime they might just get globaled in M+ and probably in Mythic Raids too. But I have seen a Pala doing fine in 16 and 17 keys, so with skillful use of CDs they can work fine.

Warriors have been insanely buffed in 9.05, giving them upwards of 80% shield block uptime which is insane, plus they deal really good AOE damage, but that is likely not too interesting in Mythic Raids. I am pretty convinced they will kick DH off their pedestal for M+ in 9.1. though.

Druid is very strong atm, probaby the strongest Tank in mitigating Physical Damage, by spamming Ironfurs. Plus lots of Utility, just not great in the speed department.

Vengeance DH we will have to see. It's loosing a lot of passive Magic Damage reduction today but it keeps all of it's tools. But it's still pretty squishy outside of CDs. It's greatest value is in grabbing aggro quickly and then running away, which will not work in raids.

Monks are still a very strong Tank for Raiding. Stagger makes Boss hits manageable, but different from Druids they do not directly mitigate Physical Damage, they just aren't going to take spikes, you will need to be healed since self-healing is pretty bad here (you have a passive that will increase incoming heals though). It's not as invincible as in BFA but very strong still.

[Marrilaife]

You genuinely think dh tank and warr tank was brought to world first race cause of their cooldowns?

Basically yes, you brought veng dh for mystic brand cuz havoc was weak (all BFA you brought a havoc instead) and then you either brought warrior for battle shout or monk for mystic touch. However since windwalkers proved to be better than expected in Nathria, brewmaster wasn't as mandatory. Meanwhile dps warriors and especially dhs were sub par, while you still need the goddamn buff.

It's a stupid design where only 1 class brings a buff, and only specific classes do so. So for example you can have 0 rogues but you need 1 dh / monk / warr.

[Tyrilion]

Did you see Havoc at the start of the xpac? It wasn't viable at all, VDH was absolutely brought just for the debuff and would have been used even if they where the worst tank in the game because of this. Havoc was THAT bad and not an option.

This may be the case with havoc, but in no way is it the reason VDH were in Mythic race. On top of the 5% magic buff, they have
- an AoE Grip which does wonders on Sun King (Dk utlity)
- an AOE Fear which is also super useful on sun king (Warr Utility)
- an Aoe Silence which is just amazeballs on inerva (Pala utlitly)
- Insane Self Healing (can rival a bear)
- The best Magic dmg mitigation even with the most recent nerf
- and solid physical mit
- Ridiculous mobility

all in all a DH can do what any other tank can do just as well as they can, but other tanks shine brighter in specific situations, the DH is a great all rounder master of none kind of tank

[Tech614]

This may be the case with havoc, but in no way is it the reason VDH were in Mythic race. On top of the 5% magic buff, they have
- an AoE Grip which does wonders on Sun King (Dk utlity)
- an AOE Fear which is also super useful on sun king (Warr Utility)
- an Aoe Silence which is just amazeballs on inerva (Pala utlitly)
- Insane Self Healing (can rival a bear)
- The best Magic dmg mitigation even with the most recent nerf
- and solid physical mit
- Ridiculous mobility

all in all a DH can do what any other tank can do just as well as they can, but other tanks shine brighter in specific situations, the DH is a great all rounder master of none kind of tank

All of this "utility" is literally done better by other tanks, and it's a joke that you think any of it is as valuable at 5% magic damage and worth mentioning. It's hard to take a person serious if they think VDH has better magic mitigation then a prot paladin, literally 0 understanding of tanks. An amazing aoe grip that is a million times worse then DK and absolutely hilarious you think it was needed with necrolord unholy DK stacking. Meh physical mitgation nothing solid about it, worse mobility then a brewmaster and same as a prot war, aoe silence on a min CD when prot paladin can lawlers throw shield and interupt everything on a short cd, "insane self healing" that is somehow worse then brewmaster, blood, and gaurdian.

I'm sorry you overvalue the spec and don't understand why it is meta, but its literally the 5% magic damage.

[Shelly]

You genuinely think dh tank and warr tank was brought to world first race cause of their cooldowns? please tell me you arent this naive.

LimitMax has been very specific about the strength of Rallying Cry, as well as about how at the start of Shadowlands havoc was wimpy AF, which means you were pretty much left with demon hunter in a tanking role because the debuff was required and putting prot warrior in since they already had an arms warrior and no more melee spots.

He's super obsessed with the idea of the "perfect comp" though and really any tank is going to be viable within 5 to 10 item levels of the content they are doing, especially in a raid.

Raid tanking is super easy and requires very little in the way of CD management.

[prwraith]

Actually, yes.

You sure there's no perhaps 5% extra damage a DH let's the casters do that is perhaps more valuable than darkness?

[dess]

All tanks are squishy in m+, its all about your cd management and movement.

[cordrann]

All of this "utility" is literally done better by other tanks, and it's a joke that you think any of it is as valuable at 5% magic damage and worth mentioning. It's hard to take a person serious if they think VDH has better magic mitigation then a prot paladin, literally 0 understanding of tanks. An amazing aoe grip that is a million times worse then DK and absolutely hilarious you think it was needed with necrolord unholy DK stacking. Meh physical mitgation nothing solid about it, worse mobility then a brewmaster and same as a prot war, aoe silence on a min CD when prot paladin can lawlers throw shield and interupt everything on a short cd, "insane self healing" that is somehow worse then brewmaster, blood, and gaurdian.

I'm sorry you overvalue the spec and don't understand why it is meta, but its literally the 5% magic damage.

Veng mobility is yes worse than monk, but better then prot warrior. Warrior leap is a significantly longer cooldown, doesn't have two charges, and as a mobility tool charge is objectively inferior to leap. Calling Brewmaster healing better than Vengeance is iffy. Brewmaster self healing is largely contingent on external healing via celestial fortune, vengeance self healing is just straight up healing. Really, all the tanks are pretty similar in self healing excepting the two outliers of prot warrior and blood dk. Also, pally shield throw only interrupts the primary target, so maybe YOU should learn tank mechanics before you criticize others for their "ignorance".

[Hellobolis]

Veng mobility is yes worse than monk, but better then prot warrior.

monk is very context dependent. e.g. on denatrius setting up transcendence is straight up inferior to leaps. and the only other fight where mobility is critical, blood council, DHs beat monks too.

on the other hand, monks save you a lot on repair/food costs!

[Toby451]

Prot pally is the squishiest and anyone who says otherwise doesn't know anything about tanking.


Having said that, every tank is more than capable of clearing Nathria on mythic. Even with Paladin being the "squishiest" they might actually be the best overall right now with the recent blanket tank buffs. Nathria was not balanced around the recent tank buffs. The insane amount of DPS you can get from prot pally with their glaring weakness being masked by recent tank buffs, Prot paladin is looking very good in CN for the remainder of CN.

[Anufis]

Hi,

What's the "squishiest" tank in mythic raiding ATM ?

I haven't played since Cata, and back then blood DKs were the "squishiest" (spikiest dmg)... is that still the case ??

Thanks




And by "squishy" I mean "spikiest" dmg (takes the most dmg (and requires the most healing (including self heals)))

To me squishy = dies the most

[Sanitee]

You genuinely think dh tank and warr tank was brought to world first race cause of their cooldowns? please tell me you arent this naive.

They were there for battle shout and magic debuff. Not cooldowns, but their buffs

[Tech614]

Veng mobility is yes worse than monk, but better then prot warrior. Warrior leap is a significantly longer cooldown, doesn't have two charges, and as a mobility tool charge is objectively inferior to leap. Calling Brewmaster healing better than Vengeance is iffy. Brewmaster self healing is largely contingent on external healing via celestial fortune, vengeance self healing is just straight up healing. Really, all the tanks are pretty similar in self healing excepting the two outliers of prot warrior and blood dk. Also, pally shield throw only interrupts the primary target, so maybe YOU should learn tank mechanics before you criticize others for their "ignorance".

Brewmaster self healing is way fucking ahead of VDH in all but the most extreme circumstances. A VDH has to be taking a ridiculous amount of damage to match brewmaster self healing, an amount of damage that is not common at all during optimal play in current tier. Calling it iffy means you don't play both specs lol.

[Mike tang 1991]

But "spikiest" damage is DK right ?

[Saltysquidoon]

Yes but that is literally how they are designed, only poor player's panic and pop shit when a blood DK gets chunked because that has to happen for DS to work properly.
If you want to define 'squishy' as "how quickly will I die without heals" Blood is not the squishiest tank by a mile.