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  1. #21
    Because the game isnt stuck in a vaccuum. Its an ever expanding, evolving world.

    Over time, the races and cultures are becoming smarter, more organised, more civilised.
    It's been over a decade of our time, over 3 decades ingame. Every race has evolved to suit the enviroment around them, which is one that requires tollerance and cooperation with allies, skeptism of non-allies and cautius optimism of peace from enemies.

    Orcs could not prosper with war. Thrall understood that while war may be neccesary/inevitable at times, peace was ultimatly required for the Orcs to grow as a people. Other races have figured this out on their own as well over time.

  2. #22
    Immortal Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Blizzard learned a long time ago that players didn't want to be the 'bad guys', so they took all the things that made the Horde cool and edgy and neutered it down so that there were no bad guys anymore.
    Maybe that's why they dropped the Stupid Evil™ bat on two Warchiefs, who also happen to be major lore figures.
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Jailer's first ever appearance involved chucking him [Baine] off a cliff for being too shit to even qualify as a Maw trash mob.

  3. #23
    It's pretty obvious why.
    Blizzard has hinted and slowly tried pushing towards one combined faction. It wouldn't make sense in the "lore/story" if these orcish brutes, wild cows and barbaric trolls were working along side the...noble humans with morales who are "Kind hearted and straight edge" unless they too were of similar standing and mind.

    Of course it doesn't make sense in the lore/story at all but it's clearly what they're trying to head towards

  4. #24
    If an Orc keeps making war eventually it dies on a battlefield. If a Human doesn't kill a bloodthirsty Orc, eventually more Humans die.

    Through process of elimination, eventually only good orcs and evil men will be left and the struggle will just be backwards - perpetuating the Cycle Of Hatred. So the cycle keeps going. A world of war.

    ...

    Or maybe it was just to make them more relatable.

  5. #25
    Pit Lord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omeomorfismo View Post
    a bfa beta warcampaign quest. the nelf character was surprised by the strenght of the human (i think the rambo in redridge) or something like that
    or ancient races like high elves/night elves/draenei being dictated by humans and praising humans in general
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    (Alteraci Human thread in construction)

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Maybe, but at least those "different kinds" were different enough from each other as to make the races feel... well, different. These days, you are playing a boring Lawful Good character (the way Blizzard understands it, of course) full of MUH HONOURZ and in a quest to save the High King of the Alliance and his retinue, no matter your looks, place of birth or ascendancy.
    And before that you had no choice but to participate in a Libensraum inspired genocide. So what? Does that really tears you apart so immensely to save Blanduin? Well, too bad.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Maybe that's why they dropped the Stupid Evil™ bat on two Warchiefs, who also happen to be major lore figures.
    And look what happened to both, they couldn't even be a little bit evil without their subjects revolting on them immediately.

    You can trace everything back to Thrall being the enlightened literally whitewashed savior of the Horde making everyone a 'good guy' like him at the expense of washing out the entire base cultures.

  8. #28
    Because the opposite doesnt suit a 7year old child.
    They don't grap the concepts of warrior culture, nomade culture, cannibale vodoo culture, or xenophobic or autarkic culture.

    Blond prince = good.
    That's a good concept. So every one should be like that.
    Last edited by Tarba; 2021-02-27 at 05:53 AM.

  9. #29
    I have no idea why users here want Humanized Orcs.
    The whole attraction for Orcs are their Bloodthirstiness, their warmongering and their savagery.
    Even if you want to play as a Frostwolf, the most noble of Orcs, you are still struggling to keep the bloodlust in check.
    If you, guys, are looking for a noble, humanized race, just roll a Stormwind Human.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    An Orc's culture was always about strength and "honor" on the battlefield. So it would make sense in Orcish culture that they'd often clash and that the most dominant brute Orc would often take lead.

    Yet it's somehow an issue with players. You can play a noble human for all I care, but why are there so many people insisting that other races need to live up to Human standards in terms of culture and morals?
    For one thing, applying human standards like strength and honor to Orcs is also humanizing them, but that is normal. You are a human (far as we know) and you simply cannot apply anything but human standards to Orcs, no matter how much you try. It's a well-known problems for anthropologists and they study different human cultures not a real alien race.
    The writers also have no choice in the matter. It is neigh impossible to really leave your own world view out of the equation, it's too deeply bread into all of us.

    On another point. As even Saurfang realized the Orcs were never about honor. They were about violence and survival of the fittest and subjugating the weak as slaves.

    The problem is not that they were this way among themselves, the problem was that they came to a human planet and tried to force these values upon the humans by means of war and murder. Killing thousands of civilians, destroying several cities and so forth.

    So it should really not be any surprise that humans especially have a huge problem with Orc standards. Especially since a few years later Garrosh refreshed their memory of why Orcish standards are not a recipe for co-existance.

  11. #31
    Because the original cool writers left

  12. #32
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    I'm out of the loop here, where did this phrase come from?
    During BfA development, Shandris had a moment with a Dark Ranger in the war campaign that insulted humans and she told her off because "they have lots of potential" or something along those lines.

    Trans Rights are Human Rights // Elune Says Queer Rights!

  13. #33
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Show me your concept of a "less humanized" race and I am sure it will be

    -either more humanized than you think
    -so weird that nobody understands or plays them...or do you want to be slug that only speaks telepathically and adheres to the code of Zerb that means worshipping slime is meaning of all that is great. (and already I used the human concepts of a code, worshipping, meaning and greatness)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarba View Post
    They don't grap the concepts of warrior culture, nomade culture, cannibale vodoo culture, or xenophobic or autarkic culture.
    Maybe I am the one out of the loop, but those are all humanized things. At least by the definition I find: "to make things more human or give animals human traits"

    But I guess you and OP are talking about humanistic philosophy and all races now adhering to that. Apparently even goblins are not driven by avarice anymore?
    Last edited by det; 2021-02-27 at 10:49 AM.

  14. #34
    Because every race is played by an actual human.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    An Orc's culture was always about strength and "honor" on the battlefield. So it would make sense in Orcish culture that they'd often clash and that the most dominant brute Orc would often take lead.

    Yet it's somehow an issue with players. You can play a noble human for all I care, but why are there so many people insisting that other races need to live up to Human standards in terms of culture and morals?
    Oh, that's because the Orc's cultural standard of honour was never about that. It was the fascistoid "might makes right" justified by themselves as honour so they could shape their narratives into them actually being good and descent!

    If you look at the historical parallels the Orcish culture was so clearly based on the Lost Cause revisionism BS of the Confederate South even if the writers were unaware of it they still based it on that subconsciously, death of the author. They even had slaves who were happy to be slaves and for whom it was the natural state and desire to be enslaved.

    If you're fascinated by the orcs and loves everything about their culture you've also stated, unknowledgeably, that you also love and are okay with that as that's part of, or at least were until they started reflecting on it how bad it was to transcribe tribal values to a society. Culture is both the good and bad things about it. Only looking at the good is Nationalism and whitewashing of the objective reality to fit a Nationalistic narrative.

    The original Orcs were never the "good guys," they were never "lied to," and they were certainly never "misunderstood."

    Gul-dan never lied to the Orcs. He promised them that the brew would make them stronger than anyone. And it did, and no one ever asked him if there were any side-effects. If he had told them it was a way to be immune to the Red Pox, which he himself had created, THEN he would have lied to them. The WoD timeline also showed that they WILLINGLY engaged in world plunder, no one forced them, no one controlled them, Kil'jaeden could have gotten them to attack Azeroth even without resorting to mc.

    And as for them being imprisoned oh so unfairly. The facts, the Horde invaded Azeroth totally unprovoked, they looted, plundered, and killed at will, they were ultimately defeated, they became docile after Draenor blew up. This last fact was the only thing that stopped the Alliance from genociding them off the planet which they as the victors had every right to. The Orcs as a faction of the Horde only exists because the Alliance never resorted to the Orc concept of honour and instead showed mercy on them.
    Last edited by Quaade; 2021-02-27 at 10:58 AM.

  16. #36
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Because all of them are based on human cultures and ideas.

    Trans Rights are Human Rights // Elune Says Queer Rights!

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Squigglyo View Post
    Because the game isnt stuck in a vaccuum. Its a never expanding, evolving world.
    Fixed the wrong "space" press for you....WoW is easily one of the most static and illogical fantasy world ever (multifront wars since decades and they still fights? From where the resources and manpower coming from?)

  18. #38
    There is no more tiresome gotcha argument that nevertheless fails to address the point than 'because the writers are humans lol'. Yes, you're quite right, they are. Consequently all races even in their original incarnation either represent exaggerated version of human traits or cultures or how humans would react and shape around something that didn't exist (what if people were 10k years old and purple, what if people could exist while dead, etc.). Yet despite this the only aspect of the human experience the writers depict is a weird cross of modern western social values through the lens of a highly generic european medieval fantasy kingdom and all other spins they've made are drawn to that version like a boring event horizon. The reason they're all being pushed to this point is that the current set of writers no longer feel comfortable depicting anything they wouldn't also endorse or allowing playability of cultures that step outside this extremely narrow permissible position.

    The writers doing this in a game that's still based around doing things like setting people on fire or sucking out their souls or raising them into undead slavery or how they end up accidentally portraying morally batshit positions like everyone forgiving genocide because the bad lady left are the highlights and inevitable byproduct of this mindset.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2021-02-27 at 11:54 AM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    or ancient races like high elves/night elves/draenei being dictated by humans and praising humans in general
    sure, but the human potential TM meme originated from that line
    12/6/2009 -23/11/2020 rip little deathstalker Ferretti. proud forsaken, enemy of the livings

  20. #40
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    why are there so many people insisting that other races need to live up to Human standards in terms of culture and morals?
    Because humans need to relate.
    You have the same problem in pretty much any SciFi setting too. Aliens should be vastly different to us, to the point that we no longer can relate.
    Yet wherever you go you see HUMAN morals held high, Aliens end up as the ones that "do it wrong" and a lot of effort is spent on "educating" them, trying to change them etc.

    In a nutshell: it is human arrogance coupled with humans being pretty much unable to write non human characters.

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