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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    Convoke was super broken when Full Moon could still proc because it could then literally 1 shot you, in fact I have a screenshot somewhere where I got hit for a 16k Starsurge and a 23k Full Moon and died in 0.1 seconds from 100% health. But since they removed Full Moon the skill is fine, it was broken and they fixed it, problem solved.

    Boomkins aren't really very threatening outside of Incarn unless they're Kyrian, then they're threatening about every minute which is on par with every other class. Convoke requires way too much setup to be reliable, and even if everything is set up properly it's still pretty easy to stop it on every class. And if everything has to go right for your 2 minute CD to be effective I'd wager it's not a great skill.
    https://imgur.com/a/zzj8Mpu

    This was a couple months ago, back when I (healer) actually did arena and my mates hadn't quit. This was 2s, weren't playing meta so that's probably part of the problem. ~25% versa at the time, but lower health pools. As you can see I've popped Desperate Prayer prior to Pain Supp, and then cast PW:R before trying to hard cast Shadowmend. In the 2s between PW:R casting (incurred GCD, then the cast time for Shadowmend (~1.2s) I dropped from 91% to dead through Pain Supp and 25% bonus hp. I couldn't have made it out of LOS in time, especially considering I play with ~300MS (playing EU servers from NZ).

    If you scale up those Starsurges without PS, the dude is hitting for ~18k and I took 3 of them in 1.5s, plus multiple other spells. And gear inflation means I'm sure the crit ceiling has only gotten higher since a few months ago.

    I know there's things I can do to improve how I handle Convoke, but the spell is still supremely strong and capable of one shotting post-nerf. If I hadn't cast PS I'd have died in 0.5 of a second.

  2. #82
    I've got a druid in my guild who thinks he is a great player because he can easily get into keys.

    He often talks about how he is really good at using Convoke in the right situations.

    Everytime he talks i get an anurism.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    You sound like you play Balance. Removing Full Moon in PvP was the right choice, but it's still broken. No, it's not easy for every class to stop it. How many other classes have 2 min CDs that literally kill you if you don't save several CDs to stop it asap?
    Nope I main HPal and Disc Priest. Don't even have a 60 Druid.

    It's very easy for every class to stop with the possible exception of Ret Paladins who would just bubble and win the game anyway. Most classes have a damage CD that requires multiple defensives to live through with the exception of Warrior which has the highest consistent damage in the game to make up for their lack of a huge burst CD.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAld View Post
    https://imgur.com/a/zzj8Mpu

    This was a couple months ago, back when I (healer) actually did arena and my mates hadn't quit. This was 2s, weren't playing meta so that's probably part of the problem. ~25% versa at the time, but lower health pools. As you can see I've popped Desperate Prayer prior to Pain Supp, and then cast PW:R before trying to hard cast Shadowmend. In the 2s between PW:R casting (incurred GCD, then the cast time for Shadowmend (~1.2s) I dropped from 91% to dead through Pain Supp and 25% bonus hp. I couldn't have made it out of LOS in time, especially considering I play with ~300MS (playing EU servers from NZ).

    If you scale up those Starsurges without PS, the dude is hitting for ~18k and I took 3 of them in 1.5s, plus multiple other spells. And gear inflation means I'm sure the crit ceiling has only gotten higher since a few months ago.

    I know there's things I can do to improve how I handle Convoke, but the spell is still supremely strong and capable of one shotting post-nerf. If I hadn't cast PS I'd have died in 0.5 of a second.
    If you had reacted with Barrier instead of Pain Supp you'd have lived, and considering Barrier is a shorter CD and not usable while stunned it should almost always come first if you're able to cast as a Disc Priest. You also could have used a second radiance charge or battlemasters trinket or Penance instead of Shadowmend, all of which would have probably saved you. Your teammate also was apparently nowhere near you and didn't tank any hits or offer any help.

    And with the way gear scales you'd have had about 8k more health on top of that currently, as well as more versatility, which means it would have been even easier to deal with.

    Yeah invoke is strong if you don't deal with it, I'm not debating that. I'm saying that if you use the proper responses then it's really not hard to deal with at all, and that makes it a pretty mediocre spell in the majority of situations. Sure if the stars align and you forget about it then Convoke seems really broken, but as long as you're paying attention it's not that strong.

  4. #84
    IF and it's a big IF classes are balanced for PVP, they are balanced for fully geared, master of your class, tournament players playing 3v3... So what wow devs are saying is, all you casual boys and girls that are below 3k rating just need to GIT GUD!

    But seriously, you know they make pvp adjustments a week or two after an arena tourney.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by ActuaryBro View Post
    Convoke is broken and people saying its easy to counter with an interrupt are probably <1400 players. Convoke+bop and convoke+aura mastery are why convoke is so insane. The only counter in many situations is to line it and hope you don't die from the first few spells. Convoke would be so much better if it had a cast time before channeling the 4sec of spells.
    This. CtS is worse than anything else in PvP, including freaking Vanilla, when boomkins could (and still can, since Classic is a thing) 1-shot ppl with a Starfire crit. But at least that was a 3 seconds cast, whereas CtS can global someone down almost as soon as the button is pressed if you are unlucky. Not to mention BoS/AM from those ubiquitous holy pallies.
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  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    This. CtS is worse than anything else in PvP, including freaking Vanilla, when boomkins could (and still can, since Classic is a thing) 1-shot ppl with a Starfire crit. But at least that was a 3 seconds cast, whereas CtS can global someone down almost as soon as the button is pressed if you are unlucky. Not to mention BoS/AM from those ubiquitous holy pallies.
    Its not gonna fix it. Its still broken af in pve. It needs to be altered to literally just do less damage.

    Noone says Boomkins need to be top tier dps every single tier

  7. #87
    Problem is we are already in high dampeining meta^^

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    I've got a druid in my guild who thinks he is a great player because he can easily get into keys.

    He often talks about how he is really good at using Convoke in the right situations.

    Everytime he talks i get an anurism.
    For you own sanity, put him on ignore.

  9. #89
    Herald of the Titans msdos's Avatar
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    Good to know that 30k HP is already considered low, more reason to never come back to Shadowlands.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    IF and it's a big IF classes are balanced for PVP, they are balanced for fully geared, master of your class, tournament players playing 3v3... So what wow devs are saying is, all you casual boys and girls that are below 3k rating just need to GIT GUD!

    But seriously, you know they make pvp adjustments a week or two after an arena tourney.
    I get what you’re saying but you have to agree that trying to balance around every tier of skill/gear is impossible. It makes way more sense to balance around a baseline gear set and assume some decent level of skill (eg you use a defensive when someone uses an offensive).

    I think instants are a problem including rets crazy instants (DT and FR), mage damage off GCD etc. think back to classic TBC wrath times and casters had to you know cast.
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  11. #91
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    We'll ofc I am...Im doing world quests for gut sake. I wasen't even trying to pvp, ...
    Then *turn warmode off*

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    Its not gonna fix it. Its still broken af in pve. It needs to be altered to literally just do less damage.

    Noone says Boomkins need to be top tier dps every single tier
    Translation: "Wah, I got outdpsed by a boom kin!!"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAld View Post
    Because I wasn't speaking to you, I was speaking to the person I was replying to. Earlier in the thread we'd discussed the two minute cooldown, so I didn't need to mention that in my response to them.

    If you're going to jump in to a random comment 3 pages into a thread, you should do your best not to look stupid in doing so.
    Want to have a private conversation? Do it in PMs. Don't whine when people comment in a public discussion you fucking child.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Guilford View Post
    Sounds like OP is running around in warmode without any vers gear or pvp trinkets on. Burst is pretty high, sure. Not as bad if you actually have 30% vers and the pvp trinkets on.



    There's a 30 second CD with on-use trinkets.
    it is 20 seconds and some trinkets have a stat boost that is only or still active after 20 seconds...

    Famous Example: Empyreal Ordnance

    Use: Fire 5 Empyreal Ordnance at up to 5 targets. Targets suffer [157 * 6 * (1 + Versatility)] Arcane damage over 12 sec for each ordnance that hits them. As the ordnance expires on the target they return, each granting 43 Intellect for 15 sec.

    You have 7 seconds of possible stacking with another on use trinket. The Bastion one "Instructors Divine Bell" comes to mind specifically with the 4 seconds Convoke able to utilize both trinket stat boosts at once combined with Nya Soulbind stat boost and potion on top...

    That is what i meant... allowing such double stacking is an oversight that is making some trinkets very strong... it also means you are a lot worse off without them... it is not such a big problem in pvp if there is a lot of setup required but still.... the burst is high for many specs and really high for some... but that should not be the case if some specs do not have any.

  13. #93
    Herald of the Titans msdos's Avatar
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    Convoke would be fine if every single spec and class had an immunity, like they should have in this game.

    The problem is they're extremely hypocritical about what they're willing to homogenize. Like they will give out 5 bloodlusts and 5 battle rezzes and 5 different forms of blink, but then they're arbitrary about who they give it to and don't explain anything, ever.

    Or you could have a spec that doesn't do burst, but also doesn't die, but also has a specific utility that counters specific things (SL/SL Warlock). Instead of that, they just leave specs barren and useless and unable to participate, while they don't draw any lines on tanks or healers oh and also delete 5v5 from the game. You might as well just bring 5s back with this amount of burst.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Then *turn warmode off*

    - - - Updated - - -



    Translation: "Wah, I got outdpsed by a boom kin!!"

    - - - Updated - - -



    Want to have a private conversation? Do it in PMs. Don't whine when people comment in a public discussion you fucking child.
    Eh? have you seen warcraft logs? Have you seen their damage im m+?

    Do you have even the slightest idea what you are talking about?

  15. #95
    As a casual PVPer, boomkins don't feel as ridiculous as they were a few months ago, but their burst is still incredibly high. Then again, so is rogue burst (evisc spam during stuns), DH with hunt + stun + eyebeam, and Warriors in some respects with stun + charge + spinnyboi meaning warrior go brrrrr. Most other classes feel about right. I say this as both a Havoc DH and Boom/Resto druid (depending on how I feel).

    In the event I get stuck, having 161% move speed in cat form / 171% in travel form (and for a few seconds after) as boomy or resto is the icing on the cake. If I could be bothered to grind out Ven'ari rep and get 3 sockets, I could net another ~10.6%. This is from Feral Affinity + Oath of the elder Druid legendary, so the trade-off is that I lose Vortex + Rejuv + Swiftmend + Wild Growth. Add Tiger Dash for 200% (trailing off) every 45 seconds, and not even a sprinting rogue can catch me. I've also yet to see another druid catch me once I start running, though one appears to have the same speed as me but I was 50 yards away by the time he realized what I'd done. Add in instant AoE roots, and no one's going anywhere as a bonus (except druids because hey, we can shift those too). Then there's the 20% speed buff for 2 minutes on a HK until I go into combat again.

    Going as resto makes me the equivalent of a WW2 medic charging through artillery. There's almost nothing that can catch me if I start running. Being able to prowl around at that speed is also ideal for RPGG'ing vehicles in WG too.

    It doesn't mean I haven't died, but that I can get away from almost anything except groups of players with lots of CC (or a rogue, because 10000 stuns gives you that advantage).
    Last edited by Syn20; 2021-03-01 at 06:24 PM.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    Good to know that 30k HP is already considered low, more reason to never come back to Shadowlands.
    because you don't like numbers? I mean when you pass that for a reason not to play it like... "I can't study until I clean behind that wardrobe which has not been moved for the last 6 years"

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    Nope I main HPal and Disc Priest. Don't even have a 60 Druid.

    It's very easy for every class to stop with the possible exception of Ret Paladins who would just bubble and win the game anyway. Most classes have a damage CD that requires multiple defensives to live through with the exception of Warrior which has the highest consistent damage in the game to make up for their lack of a huge burst CD.



    If you had reacted with Barrier instead of Pain Supp you'd have lived, and considering Barrier is a shorter CD and not usable while stunned it should almost always come first if you're able to cast as a Disc Priest. You also could have used a second radiance charge or battlemasters trinket or Penance instead of Shadowmend, all of which would have probably saved you. Your teammate also was apparently nowhere near you and didn't tank any hits or offer any help.

    And with the way gear scales you'd have had about 8k more health on top of that currently, as well as more versatility, which means it would have been even easier to deal with.

    Yeah invoke is strong if you don't deal with it, I'm not debating that. I'm saying that if you use the proper responses then it's really not hard to deal with at all, and that makes it a pretty mediocre spell in the majority of situations. Sure if the stars align and you forget about it then Convoke seems really broken, but as long as you're paying attention it's not that strong.
    The game was 4 minutes in, barrier was on CD and only one PW:R charge available. I didn't have battle masters, which I would now if I was still playing arena. Can't speak for my friend, I can't remember where they were positioned at that point in the game. Barrier is only 10% higher DR than PS, I may still have died before my heal landed.

    Their damage will have scaled up since, too.

    I've only ever been arguing that it's a supremely powerful spell that one shots people. I don't say it can't be countered, but the damage output is crazy high. I won't be surprised if the spell is modified in 9.1 (or even 9.0.5).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Then *turn warmode off*

    - - - Updated - - -



    Translation: "Wah, I got outdpsed by a boom kin!!"

    - - - Updated - - -



    Want to have a private conversation? Do it in PMs. Don't whine when people comment in a public discussion you fucking child.
    No whining anywhere in my post. You're the one getting angry and swearing because you jumped into a conversation mid-way through, misinterpreted it and are getting defensive now. Chill out man, if you don't like what you see other people engaging in on a forum, stay away from them.

  18. #98
    Stood in the Fire Guilford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyrican View Post
    it is 20 seconds and some trinkets have a stat boost that is only or still active after 20 seconds...

    Famous Example: Empyreal Ordnance

    Use: Fire 5 Empyreal Ordnance at up to 5 targets. Targets suffer [157 * 6 * (1 + Versatility)] Arcane damage over 12 sec for each ordnance that hits them. As the ordnance expires on the target they return, each granting 43 Intellect for 15 sec.

    You have 7 seconds of possible stacking with another on use trinket. The Bastion one "Instructors Divine Bell" comes to mind specifically with the 4 seconds Convoke able to utilize both trinket stat boosts at once combined with Nya Soulbind stat boost and potion on top...

    That is what i meant... allowing such double stacking is an oversight that is making some trinkets very strong... it also means you are a lot worse off without them... it is not such a big problem in pvp if there is a lot of setup required but still.... the burst is high for many specs and really high for some... but that should not be the case if some specs do not have any.
    NOBODY is using those. If they're PvPing they're using double PvP trinkets because if they don't they're severely nerfing their damage and tankiness by missing out on the 40% vers boost. You are woefully ill-informed.
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  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    Yes, Convoke hits super fucking hard. It's also easy to interrupt. And if you do interrupt it, that Druid is fucked for 2 minutes.
    What? My covenant ability does not go on cooldown just because you interrupt it.... I dont play cancer drood though.

  20. #100
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    Yea, Convoke is fucking dumb.
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