This burst has to end.

[Anuibus]

Yes literally every class has defensives that will make you survive full convoke.

I can't even survive half a convoke with every defensive I have running, including dumping rage into ignore pain. If they get lucky on how many starsurges are cast and when, there is literally nothing certain classes can do except drop dead. And getting lucky enough to delete people without them reacting isn't that uncommon.

[TheAld]

Hurr Durr I can't argue properly so I'm going to strawman by exaggerating

'Course I play the game, if I didn't I'd have no reason to be commenting.

There's very little RNG to convoke if said Druid/teammates are topped and you've dotted the enemy up. More often than not it's going to tunnel a sizeable portion of Starsurges into the target.

As it is now, it's an iWin button. If you pop it from max range against some poor guy in open world content, it's not like they can line it or kick it. If they are engaged with you and use their kick and a cc ability, you can just wait those out and use it after.

Exaggerating by using your one hour dot example just weakens your defense. You can try to argue semantics all you like, but if a single button press ends up killing someone then it's a one shot.

[Nnyco]

Yes, Convoke hits super fucking hard. It's also easy to interrupt. And if you do interrupt it, that Druid is fucked for 2 minutes.

Considering that even happened in tournaments with extremly high mmr players is basically prove alone that convoke is absolutely busted.

[Will]

Why do people keep talking about their versatility as if it matters? If you have 31% versatility that means you have a 15.5% damage reduction. That means that the attacker only needs 15.5% versatility themselves to make yours completely nullified from a defensive standpoint. I get that it helps, but not nearly as much as people seem to thinkit does.

No, they'd need 18.3% versatility to nullify it. A 15.5% damage reduction means an attack that would hit for 1000 now hits for 845.

1000/845=1.183431952 so you'd need 18 3% versa for your attacks to hit that same victim for 1000 again.

[Vasilisa]

pvp is broken. for long I'm not subs

Suggest you do the same. Till they fix wow

See you never again then. Pvp has never been balanced and never will be, you shouldn't expect them to "fix" it after so many years.

[Tyrannica]

32,5k hp, 24% vers here

Got killed in a matter of 2 second by Retribution paladin burst (Verdict 12k + multiple judgements each for 7k).

But I wouldn't make a thread about that myself, I know that PvP isnt balanced in 1v1 scenarios... and usually my healer is pretty good and know when to use his CDs on arena. I know what are you writing about, but the "I died in <5 sec" isn't a problem when you're playing with equally skilled people. Burst is much higher than before and I totally agree.

This thing hit me for 13744 damage today in arena followed by 17112 Final Verdict. I'm a 216ilvl Rogue with 21% versatility and 36k+ hp.

Besides Skillcapped declared, Ret is the easiest class/spec to get to glad in this meta.

Did some skirmish arena with my lock as demology to test stuff and i saw similar numbers, slightly lower, though, as i had more versatility and Soul Link to mitigate some of that burst.

But noticed Final Reckoning is a nice little burst addition rets got in SL.

So, all the Rets "Final" abilties and talents really mean final...

[Zeusy]

30k~ is pretty undergeared at this point, and scaling is removed. Every single burst class can kill people in under 4 seconds if they pop their bigger CDs vs no defensives. On someone undergeared they will die even faster. Convoke happens to be on the quickest list of this. Ret, fire, WW, boomkin, destro, ele, feral can all do this pretty quickly on someone undergeared.

WoW has become a trading playstyle in PVP at this point. Trading out combo for combo, or CDs for CDs. If you mess up and use the wrong CD or use nothing, pretty much die instantly.

[Tyrannica]

30k~ is pretty undergeared at this point, and scaling is removed. Every single burst class can kill people in under 4 seconds if they pop their bigger CDs vs no defensives. On someone undergeared they will die even faster. Convoke happens to be on the quickest list of this. Ret, fire, WW, boomkin, destro, ele, feral can all do this pretty quickly on someone undergeared.

WoW has become a trading playstyle in PVP at this point. Trading out combo for combo, or CDs for CDs. If you mess up and use the wrong CD or use nothing, pretty much die instantly.

Still some classes that do not so much burst with cds, or lets say not in 1-2 gcds. Like with affliction i have to use darksoul and MR casts and people have plenty of time to react to that in the arena, unlike combustion, convoke and ret burst.

So there is no real equality - and its a perversion that this many hybrids do more burst than pure dds. Its actually really disgusting, how this is "justified" from a game design point of view? So i am only ok with fire mages as they cannot heal as much.(but still have a stupid tank legendary, that should maybe removed for fire spec)

[Sekurm]

https://imgur.com/a/Zqp52V9

this was on a 46k hp warlock with 30%vers. 1 arcane barrage.

[clevin]

You're undergeared and died because you weren't paying attention with war mode on, really don't see how that's a problem with the game tbh.

This. OP had warmode on. PVP is PVP.

And the downside to how convoke works is that it's meh for single target unless only that target is in range because you can't direct it. It hits any flagged players in range - it MIGHT nail you or it might hit other players. If it killed you that fast, you got unlucky and many of the spells it cast hit you.

- - - Updated - - -

As it is now, it's an iWin button. If you pop it from max range against some poor guy in open world content, it's not like they can line it or kick it. If they are engaged with you and use their kick and a cc ability, you can just wait those out and use it after.
.

It has a CD you know. If it's interrupted, it goes on CD. So, no, they can't just wait out the cc and cast it right after.

[ActuaryBro]

Convoke is broken and people saying its easy to counter with an interrupt are probably <1400 players. Convoke+bop and convoke+aura mastery are why convoke is so insane. The only counter in many situations is to line it and hope you don't die from the first few spells. Convoke would be so much better if it had a cast time before channeling the 4sec of spells.

[Zeusy]

Still some classes that do not so much burst with cds, or lets say not in 1-2 gcds. Like with affliction i have to use darksoul and MR casts and people have plenty of time to react to that in the arena, unlike combustion, convoke and ret burst.

So there is no real equality - and its a perversion that this many hybrids do more burst than pure dds. Its actually really disgusting, how this is "justified" from a game design point of view? So i am only ok with fire mages as they cannot heal as much.(but still have a stupid tank legendary, that should maybe removed for fire spec)

Yep, there is a few classes who can't do 1-2 GCD burst single target 100-0. Affliction instead of 1-2 GCD killing someone, wipes a whole team in 10 seconds instead of one person in 2-3 seconds. (although with a 50 stack drain life after rapture spam, or even a deathbolt cheese build they have super single target). In addition to that they are very squishy.

My point about trading cds still stands though. Basically every single class wipes out if they aren't getting CDs traded instead. Cdew has been complaining for days now (player at 2800-3200~mmr) that affliction damage is just out the roof and their only downside is dying.

Ret and monk is the only damage currently I'm confused how it has lasted. Rets 100-0ing people in under 1.5 seconds if too many things crit isn't real gameplay. Monks can 100-0 people with fallen order and clones if enough lines up too often.

[ONCHEhap]

Yes, Convoke hits super fucking hard. It's also easy to interrupt. And if you do interrupt it, that Druid is fucked for 2 minutes.

Get stunned for 2 seconds,druid uses Convoke,die.

Well placed CC should be rewarded of course,but turning one well placed stun into an instant win is absurd

[Underverse]

Yep, there is a few classes who can't do 1-2 GCD burst single target 100-0. Affliction instead of 1-2 GCD killing someone, wipes a whole team in 10 seconds instead of one person in 2-3 seconds. (although with a 50 stack drain life after rapture spam, or even a deathbolt cheese build they have super single target). In addition to that they are very squishy.

My point about trading cds still stands though. Basically every single class wipes out if they aren't getting CDs traded instead. Cdew has been complaining for days now (player at 2800-3200~mmr) that affliction damage is just out the roof and their only downside is dying.

Ret and monk is the only damage currently I'm confused how it has lasted. Rets 100-0ing people in under 1.5 seconds if too many things crit isn't real gameplay. Monks can 100-0 people with fallen order and clones if enough lines up too often.

Affliction is one of the least represented classes in the game at high levels so...I'm guessing that dying is a pretty big downside.

Honestly damage is just too high across the board; vers damage bonus should just be cut in half to match the damage reduction bonus while maintaining the incentive as a pvp stat, and spot nerfs should be applied to anything that can hit >15k in <2 seconds.

[xmirrors]

Get stunned for 2 seconds,druid uses Convoke,die.

Well placed CC should be rewarded of course,but turning one well placed stun into an instant win is absurd

Right, because that's certainly what we're seeing in these arena cups. Nothing but balance druids one shotting people with Convoke! Oh, wait, that's not what's happening.

I do think Convoke is a problem but the vendetta against burst worries me. I don't want to go back to high dampening games over and over and over and over. We need high burst and the game has always revolved around burning through enemy defensives while using yours to survive.

[TheAld]

It has a CD you know. If it's interrupted, it goes on CD. So, no, they can't just wait out the cc and cast it right after.

Of course it has a cooldown, if you'd read my previous post you'd know we were discussing the fact it's on a 2 minute cooldown. I know how channels and interrupts work in this game.

If you used your brain a little, you'd be able to infer from my message that I mean not popping your CDs at the very start when the opponent has abilities they can use to interrupt you? You know, fairly basic play for anyone starting off in PvP.

[clevin]

Of course it has a cooldown, if you'd read my previous post you'd know we were discussing the fact it's on a 2 minute cooldown. I know how channels and interrupts work in this game.

If you used your brain a little, you'd be able to infer from my message that I mean not popping your CDs at the very start when the opponent has abilities they can use to interrupt you? You know, fairly basic play for anyone starting off in PvP.

Why the fuck should I have to infer what you might mean? Say what you mean in the post.

[Zeusy]

Affliction is one of the least represented classes in the game at high levels so...I'm guessing that dying is a pretty big downside.

Honestly damage is just too high across the board; vers damage bonus should just be cut in half to match the damage reduction bonus while maintaining the incentive as a pvp stat, and spot nerfs should be applied to anything that can hit >15k in <2 seconds.

They are getting a huge demon armor buff, along with other buffs in the next patch. I think they will be one of the most picked very soon. Spriest lock and ele lock will run wild as soon as affliction doesnt die in two seconds.

Big problem with your suggestion. High rated games already go 5-7 minutes quite often, and tournies are reaching 10minute+. If they lower damage at all aside from the gcd GIBs, games would go to 80% dampening every single game.

Burst might be super high but overall games are still very long. They would have to rework defensive cds, offensive cds, and vers as a whole to add any of those changes right now without ruining high rated PVP. A first step might be looking at battlemasters but thats a big problem in itself too.

[TheAld]

Why the fuck should I have to infer what you might mean? Say what you mean in the post.

Because I wasn't speaking to you, I was speaking to the person I was replying to. Earlier in the thread we'd discussed the two minute cooldown, so I didn't need to mention that in my response to them.

If you're going to jump in to a random comment 3 pages into a thread, you should do your best not to look stupid in doing so.

[Corroc]

Convoke of Spirits on druids is just a meme that blizzard turned in to real life.
http://azeroth.metblogs.com/files/2009/10/catdps.jpg