This burst has to end.

[JohnSamuel128]

convoke is the silliest spell in wow lol

[Enclave]

convoke is the silliest spell in wow lol

People who still complain about convoke when Balance druids are nowhere near the top specs in current meta I'd say its a l2p issue

[Laqweeta]

So im just running by some balance druid ganking somebody else or what do I know - Was going to world quest.

So anyway I get close to the heat, like 20 yards and apparently the druid has popped convoke...Im of course full health, 30.7k hp...and BOOM! Dead in what felt like 2 sec's, could not even react - Saw a starfall hit, and then next second I just dropped. Scary part is he wasn't even targeting me, and I was not even close to him.

I have played since classic - N E V E R have I gotten killed like that - Running on my mount, full health and getting killed in 2 sec's. Wish I had OBS running. Im used to getting ganked in rogues in 4 sec's through stuns, aka killed before stuns ends, but this was new...

Seriously, are pvperes, aka not a player like me, even enjoying this? Last time I took PvP more serious was like in TBC or wotlk, and its not like I want mana-war 22 mins long arena fights, but this is silly =/

War mode off

[melzas]

So much wrong here...

You gave streamers as example m8 lmao and then complain that forums are full of trolls. Like I said you clearly play in a differnt time. If you actually checked it you see that forums are full of actual good feedback. Official and non officials. Players in game are not positive about arena at all idk wtf you are talking about.

And again.. Its not about that one stun dude. The second stun or third stun can be a one shot as well. Trading cds is not realy the shadowlands trait. And its all dandy you like it. But this is all based on your own opinion. Which I dont care about realy. I

Excuse me? You think you are better player so you should give feedback instead of everyone else below 2400 rating?
The reason pvp is so bad right now is because they listen to these people which is minority lol. We see how that worked out.

No not realy. Bfa dampen games was just an example idiot, I was saying anything before shadowlands arena wise was more fun and that is my opinion.

Fine dont play it?
You said you dont give up, but you gave up?
Limiting your abillities, because idk how to abus3 dampen games?

Like I could say so much things about this, but i am trying hard not to laugh about your semi laughable elist post.
Not even worth going into every single thing realy.. but when you say you gave up, when I clearly said this is the first time I dont like arena this expansion. Then yea its pointless to continue this conversation.

I don't get what you want, honestly. You act like it's only you and your team that can get bursted down in a stun, but this swings both ways. People complain about convoke, Ret wings, condemn spam, rogues killing in opener, combust mages and so on... You should have realised by now that pretty much every class has crazy burst ATM, so if you consistently get bursted down before your enemy, it means you got outplayed...

And yes, PvP is more bursty and fast than ever, but it's also not any more or less balanced than ever either. You might not like how fast it is now, but saying it promotes skilleless plays more than in the past is simply ignorant.

I'd take quick burst trading meta over 40 min arena matches we had in wotlk any day of the week... But I guess you would prefer to have DPS dummy trade as perfect PvP scenario or something.

[Mardux]

People who still complain about convoke when Balance druids are nowhere near the top specs in current meta I'd say its a l2p issue

People who still think a spec must be near the top for one of their spells to be stupid I'd say its a learn to think issue.

[Enclave]

People who still think a spec must be near the top for one of their spells to be stupid I'd say its a learn to think issue.

it is stupid but its pretty easy to ignore, there's way worse things that are impossible to ignore like fire mage combust or condemn, those things should be on blizzard's priority not a dumb spell

[Alanar]

People who still complain about convoke when Balance druids are nowhere near the top specs in current meta I'd say its a l2p issue

Convoke is easily interuptable, balance not in the meta blabla. We get it.

Doesnt mean its one if not the most retarded abillities ever to excists. It should be removed just like symbiosis got removed. Not counting it to a l2p issue, since it can still one shot someone in stun. Doesnt matter if you wasted your trinket or not. These kind of abillities or play should not be rewarded. Its not just convoke tho mind you. More is out there.

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People who still think a spec must be near the top for one of their spells to be stupid I'd say its a learn to think issue.

Can not agree more.

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I don't get what you want, honestly. You act like it's only you and your team that can get bursted down in a stun, but this swings both ways. People complain about convoke, Ret wings, condemn spam, rogues killing in opener, combust mages and so on... You should have realised by now that pretty much every class has crazy burst ATM, so if you consistently get bursted down before your enemy, it means you got outplayed...

And yes, PvP is more bursty and fast than ever, but it's also not any more or less balanced than ever either. You might not like how fast it is now, but saying it promotes skilleless plays more than in the past is simply ignorant.

I'd take quick burst trading meta over 40 min arena matches we had in wotlk any day of the week... But I guess you would prefer to have DPS dummy trade as perfect PvP scenario or something.

Idk man its not relevant anymore.

I never said it promotes skillless plays, but its exactly whats happening. I mean the previous poster felt a little.
.elits, that annoyed me, because clearly it only matters what the 2400 rated people think.. yea not realy. If pvp feedback was realy used (which I am skeptical at) then we can thank those players for shadowlands pvp.

Good for you, you like that. But I think the overral response on all sources so far I mentioned shows the opposite, which is what I said. But like I said, it was mostly the guy trying to act tough and go against what every one else is saying and act like some pro arena player is not realy making the conversation any better for him. Il leave it at that.

[Professor Expert]

Every single class in wow has cc obvious that you dont play the game

Oh hey, let's open with a stupid comment... What on-demand, reliable, instant CC does an enhancement shaman get baseline? Are you going to say the AoE stun totem that can be avoided multiple ways, or the CASTED hex... a melee who has to CAST a CC, which on top of that has a 20 sec CD. No, let's not pretend that all classes have CC because if it's not a VIABLE CC for the class then it's as good as none. It's obvious that you don't know what you are talking about, but keep on dispensing advice...

ofc, there is playing around it? pvp is mainly cooldown trading and positioning, if you fuck one of them up too badly, you flat out lose

Great, more generic "advice" that you seem to believe makes it seem as though you are in-th-know when you are completely clueless. There are plenty of players streaming their games, which play CC-heavy classes, that demonstrate the ability to lock a player down for 15+ sec or more. How are you going to "play around that"? You're not. That's why you're here making stupid comments.

convoke is a shit ability, and one of the worst they ever implemented in arena, but there is still a learning curve to making the ability work out as you want it to, to make it more consistant, as with everything in wow

Right, clicking convoke is hard. If you had a learning curve for that one I pity you.

have 3 chars with 30-32% vers atm, and i've never recieved a 25k hit from any class on glad level play? i guess you're tanking pyroclasm mages or something, but good on you

Now he's disputing my combat log... LOL You're not playing on "glad" level. You're playing in your own delusional world. My char is around 200 ilvl with 20% res. Rets can hit for 20-25K. So can rogues in certain specs. What do you gain by pretending like that isn't a thing?

if they doubled the value of stamina, or halved the dmg across the board, healers would be even more broken than they already are, and we'd be back to a dampening mana meta, that noone wants, unless you're a sadist i guess

Again with the nonsense... do you really think that if they doubled stamina they wouldn't or couldn't adjust healing? Arenas could be fixed by replacing dampening with a buff to damage that increases the same way dampening currently does. Why should classes which are "tuned" around self-healing be assured a loss if some cuck resetters decide the only way they can win is by dragging out the match for 20-30 mins? The point of dampening was to prevent long matches so WTF would they reduce healing instead of just increasing damage?

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People who still complain about convoke when Balance druids are nowhere near the top specs in current meta I'd say its a l2p issue

Who cares, bro? Most people are not playing "at the top" they are playing in the same heap where braindead druids who put "convoke" on their action bar and nothing else live. And it's not limited to balance; feral has it too and arguably can use it more effectively ... which contributes to the already broken build they can do using tanking covenant and lege so they're almost unkillable. I agree, L2P and stop relying on broken classes to carry you to 1400 for the first time ever.

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I don't get what you want, honestly.

Why not? It's quite obvious that he, like most players, don't want a game that goes from being matches where nobody dies to matches where getting globaled is routine.

You act like it's only you and your team that can get bursted down in a stun, but this swings both ways. People complain about convoke, Ret wings, condemn spam, rogues killing in opener, combust mages and so on... You should have realised by now that pretty much every class has crazy burst ATM, so if you consistently get bursted down before your enemy, it means you got outplayed...

No, not really. You're not being "outplayed" when you die before the game mechanics even allow you to react. A GCD is 1.5 sec. You can be dead in 1-2 GCDs. You literally have 3 seconds to react, and in that time you can at most do two things. The burst is less of a problem for a class that gets a damage immunity or some kind of escape, but if you play something like enhancement shaman you get none of those things and you think you are "outplaying" me by stunning and getting a kill in the span of the stun? No, you are delusional.

And yes, PvP is more bursty and fast than ever, but it's also not any more or less balanced than ever either. You might not like how fast it is now, but saying it promotes skilleless plays more than in the past is simply ignorant.

Well, you're a prime example. It's obvious you've chosen one of the FOTM classes that are exceptionally broken, like ret or druid, and suddenly believe you are a skilled pvper who's outplaying everyone. LOL

I'd take quick burst trading meta over 40 min arena matches we had in wotlk any day of the week... But I guess you would prefer to have DPS dummy trade as perfect PvP scenario or something.

Yeah dude, stroke that strawman... because there is no middle ground. Either 40 min matches or 1 min matches. There can be nothing but extremes.

[facefist]

I don't see there is a learning curve. Pressing "convoke" has no learning curve. A rogue who gets 100% crit out of stun and can 100%-10% between CS-KS-CS is not learned, it is mindless and stupid. A warrior charging around spamming condemn is not skill. It's more one-button retardism. Even with 25-30% vers you will still get dropped when certain classes are able to crit for 25K against that. That's literally more than half of a top-geared players health pool.

PvP would easily be improved if the value of stamina were doubled or if damage was halved across the board for all classes... aside from that it's just a joke and anyone pretending to take it seriously is simply deluding themselves if they believe they have "skill" because they one-shotted someone.

If there is no learning curve, how can it be that the same players are on the top season after season? If it was rng based, the top would change all the time.

You just oversimplify it because you personally play at low rating where spamming condemn works. Try playing that style up to 2,5k and you realize there is indeed a learning curve, you're just blind to it because your are playing at too low rating.

And yes I also think that the current way pvp plays out is retarded and less skill based than it was in the past.

[Lavey]

I know I'm in the small minority, but I have a Thirst for Burst, it's so entertaining to watch someone basically die and not know what just hit them.

[Tojara]

A lot of burst can be played around though, and a core part of PvP is trading just enough defensives and trinkets to survive without overdoing it. Not saying that every source of burst is fair, but some people literally don't react fast enough when other players see it coming several seconds before. Some of the rogue "one shot builds" are really dumb and a few of them can be countered, but I don't think anyone thinks its fun to play against assassination rogues that setup properly and take you from 100% to dead in a GCD.

I won't go through it all, but I think a big problem is the amount of control in the game and not necessarily the amount of burst. It's sort of disgusting that fire mages have more CC than frost mages. Fire mage can literally CC with three different schools of magic so interrupting any of them just makes them go to the next in line. The game would probably be a lot better if ring of frost wasn't a thing for fire, or if dragon's breath didn't have the CC effect attached to it without the talent (taking the talent that buffs dragon's breath would be a huge choice, because currently they all take the extra charge of fire blast that additionally reduces the CD of it by 2 seconds). Guardian affinity for druids is also a little much TBH, considering the CD is super short, it's AoE, and it's instant. If it had a longer CD or forced you to use the global to go into bear before using it, it would probably be more balanced.

IDK. Burst "meta" is a bit more fun to me than long drawn out dampening games (even though super high level players still have mostly dampening games). Still doesn't erase the fact that even in high level games, people can still get randomly deleted, but at least when they're playing in tournaments and shit it's a "best of x series", so it usually evens out in the end. To me some classes just have an oppressive amount of hard CC, and a lot of it when compared to other classes just has a pretty short CD and is sometimes just instant. Just my experience playing around the 2350-2500 level.

[Tyrannica]

Some classes are just lightyears behind other meta classes, changing burst specifics won't fix that, as they simply got huge design flaws in pvp that hinders them to compete with the higher tier classes.

You won't find many hunters, dhs and warlocks in 3s competing, and there are obvious reasions for that, wouldn't be surprised, if blizzard buffs them next season, just to have a fresh meta game. All of them got burst right now, its just not enough to compete.

[Masternap]

I honestly think PvP has never been in a worse state than now. Some classes kill entire full-geared groups of players in 2 seconds, and they absolutely never have to stop. Ferals and Rogues for example need such a gigantic nerf to their damage, it's ridiculous. You can't even outrun anyone, as they have so many survival tools that they themselves just can't die.

I don't even know how anyone could think the current situation is even remotely okay. Everything needs a big 50% damage nerf, if not more. When 9.1 hits and damage is even higher, they just have to do something. Or am I supposed to die in 1 second by then? There is too much burst damage, there is too little downtime and there are too many survival tools. Everything just sucks right now. It's not fun. At all.

[Rollatorklm]

Oh hey, let's open with a stupid comment... What on-demand, reliable, instant CC does an enhancement shaman get baseline? Are you going to say the AoE stun totem that can be avoided multiple ways, or the CASTED hex... a melee who has to CAST a CC, which on top of that has a 20 sec CD. No, let's not pretend that all classes have CC because if it's not a VIABLE CC for the class then it's as good as none. It's obvious that you don't know what you are talking about, but keep on dispensing advice...



Great, more generic "advice" that you seem to believe makes it seem as though you are in-th-know when you are completely clueless. There are plenty of players streaming their games, which play CC-heavy classes, that demonstrate the ability to lock a player down for 15+ sec or more. How are you going to "play around that"? You're not. That's why you're here making stupid comments.



Right, clicking convoke is hard. If you had a learning curve for that one I pity you.



Now he's disputing my combat log... LOL You're not playing on "glad" level. You're playing in your own delusional world. My char is around 200 ilvl with 20% res. Rets can hit for 20-25K. So can rogues in certain specs. What do you gain by pretending like that isn't a thing?



Again with the nonsense... do you really think that if they doubled stamina they wouldn't or couldn't adjust healing? Arenas could be fixed by replacing dampening with a buff to damage that increases the same way dampening currently does. Why should classes which are "tuned" around self-healing be assured a loss if some cuck resetters decide the only way they can win is by dragging out the match for 20-30 mins? The point of dampening was to prevent long matches so WTF would they reduce healing instead of just increasing damage?

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Who cares, bro? Most people are not playing "at the top" they are playing in the same heap where braindead druids who put "convoke" on their action bar and nothing else live. And it's not limited to balance; feral has it too and arguably can use it more effectively ... which contributes to the already broken build they can do using tanking covenant and lege so they're almost unkillable. I agree, L2P and stop relying on broken classes to carry you to 1400 for the first time ever.

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Why not? It's quite obvious that he, like most players, don't want a game that goes from being matches where nobody dies to matches where getting globaled is routine.



No, not really. You're not being "outplayed" when you die before the game mechanics even allow you to react. A GCD is 1.5 sec. You can be dead in 1-2 GCDs. You literally have 3 seconds to react, and in that time you can at most do two things. The burst is less of a problem for a class that gets a damage immunity or some kind of escape, but if you play something like enhancement shaman you get none of those things and you think you are "outplaying" me by stunning and getting a kill in the span of the stun? No, you are delusional.



Well, you're a prime example. It's obvious you've chosen one of the FOTM classes that are exceptionally broken, like ret or druid, and suddenly believe you are a skilled pvper who's outplaying everyone. LOL



Yeah dude, stroke that strawman... because there is no middle ground. Either 40 min matches or 1 min matches. There can be nothing but extremes.

are you seriously complaining about enha shamans? top 2 strongest melee in SL? hex is one of the most reliable CCs in the game, especially this season with priests and pallys dominating the healing scene, no dispel outside of playing with mage or boomie you're clearly bad

i mean, if convoke had no learning curve, every single boomie in the game would be 3200+ rating? which isnt the case, so your argument falls flat?
Positioning so it only hits one target, using it when enemy cc/kick is not available etc. ? there is no learning curve to pressing any button in wow? stupid logic

200 ilvl is TERRIBLE?! you literally get 197 ilvl 1 hour after you ding? lmao what are you talking about?
sure rets can hit for 25k, especially on as bad gear as you have, but its also super telegraphed with 2-3 globals before it even happens, track enemy casts/cds and prepop a cd, or run... like every good player does

Its obvious that you're just bad at the game, if you expect to compete at equal level with 200 ilvl

i imagine you want to do competetive dps in a raid with a newly dinged toon vs multiple week raiders/mythic geared people


nice logic

[Lonedroodx]

Let's not forget season 5 death and decay or season 12 hunter stampede or prismatic crystal..... At least you can react to convoke or interrupt it