Will the 9th expansion finally be fresh and not Legon 3.0?

[kaminaris]

So? That still doesn't make it the same type of system as Renown or that Anima is the same as Azerite. The War Campaign in BfA was not tied to Azerite levels.

Exactly. That is why it was better system. I didn't have to do any specific type of content. I could pick what I like and ignore everything else.

[rhorle]

Exactly. That is why it was better system. I didn't have to do any specific type of content. I could pick what I like and ignore everything else.

How can it be the better system if you just spent multiple posts saying it was the same? You can still pick and choose and ignore everything else. The renown catch up mechanics allow for different sources of renown and anima is only required for the one of the two renown from the current week.

[MatPandaZ]

Big WoW player since launch, I still love this game 17 years later. Of the recent expansions the past 5+ years, I LOVED Legion, it's easily one of my fav expansions, so many cool new things to do in it, and it was a fresh and so fun, never stale or boring whatsoever. Class Halls, and artifact appearances, specific class mounts, and Mage Tower and a new class in Demon Hunter, they created Mythic + dungeons, etc...

But lately with BfA ( Legion 2.0 ) and now Shadowlands ( Legion 3.0 ) I'm starting to hit a wall in boredom of the same old, same old. It feels like Legion, just continued, but not in a good way.

And no, it's not just WoW or I am getting burned out or getting older with different interests, no it's specifically shitty WoW development. I love WoW, but we're basically on the third expansion in a row that have the stupid crappy systems and same stuff again and again.

World Quests were great and exciting in Legion, then ok BfA, but now totally suck in SL. What happened to the kill one boss WQ's, instead we get these tedious and boring fill the XP bar WQ's and now they seem to take longer, one kill only gives you 1% or 2%, meaning it takes FOREVER to complete it, and by the time I hit 100% and complete the World Quest I am so freaking bored and frustrated.

And the systems made in Legion were cool, and fresh, Artifacts and Legendary's, and Netherlight Crucible, etc... Then Blizzard blows it all up, and creates a whole new system for BfA with Azerite, and Essences, and Corruption ( Ugh the worst ) and then the next expansion Shadowlands, they nuke it all again, and give us a whole new set of stupid systems with Covenants, and Soul binds, and blah, blah, blah, holy fuck just stop this already Blizz.

Stop creating brand new game systems, it's the worst. We don't need Artifact or Azerite, or Covenant gear.

I don't want to grind for AP, or Azerite or Anima.

I don't want worse World Quests that are very time consuming and just boring AF.


Is there a possibility of a new creative team or director for the next expansion? I don't want Legion 4.0 anymore, I want a fresh take on WoW, new blood to take on the reigns. Whole new thought process for the game, no more Artifact or Azerite or Covenants, but part 4 in the next expansion, please no more.

I love how much you contradict yourself in this. Let's have some fun....


it was a fresh and so fun, never stale or boring whatsoever.
Stop creating brand new game systems, it's the worst.
And the systems made in Legion were cool, and fresh, Artifacts and Legendary's, and Netherlight Crucible, etc...
And no, it's not just WoW or I am getting burned out or getting older with different interests,
I'm starting to hit a wall in boredom of the same old, same old.
I don't want to grind for AP, or Azerite or Anima.
I want a fresh take on WoW, new blood to take on the reigns. Whole new thought process for the game
Stop creating brand new game systems, it's the worst.
Then Blizzard blows it all up, and creates a whole new system for BfA with Azerite, and Essences, and Corruption
I'm starting to hit a wall in boredom of the same old, same old.
And no, it's not just WoW or I am getting burned out or getting older with different interests,
I love WoW, but we're basically on the third expansion in a row that have the stupid crappy systems and same stuff again and again.
Stop creating brand new game systems

[Ragnarohk]

I don't get why people complain. You can basically ignore most content and focus on what you want

Anima is optional

World quests are optional

Maw is optional

Torghast is optional once you get enough soul ash for your legendary, heck you don't even need to craft the max rank of the legendary, the power comes from the ability.

And as far as convolutrd systems go. The only current system are soulbinds. A talent tree with 1-3 options per row. Wow, so complicated.

As a casual, i can say that this is the most casual friendly expansion we've had in years.

[froschhure]

if this game would have been like legion, it would have been a good one -

sl is utter polished trash

- - - Updated - - -

and it will only get worse.

[MoanaLisa]

But lately with BfA ( Legion 2.0 ) and now Shadowlands ( Legion 3.0 ) I'm starting to hit a wall in boredom of the same old, same old. It feels like Legion, just continued, but not in a good way.

And the systems made in Legion were cool, and fresh, Artifacts and Legendary's, and Netherlight Crucible, etc... Then Blizzard blows it all up, and creates a whole new system for BfA with Azerite, and Essences, and Corruption ( Ugh the worst ) and then the next expansion Shadowlands, they nuke it all again, and give us a whole new set of stupid systems with Covenants, and Soul binds, and blah, blah, blah, holy fuck just stop this already Blizz.

The second quoted paragraph directly contradicts the first. Can't have it both ways. "Stop changing the game so much because I'm really bored the same old, same old" seems to be what you're saying.

[cparle87]

warcraft is just a phone game on pc since years

wq daily
wq table mission
weekly raid reset

i dont see any difference between that and a phone game

warcraft need only one thing : WoW 2 with new engine, new kind of gameplay, a fully reset of the story and a storyline more frequently released

the game actually is really too much static, 4-5 new quest each 3 month, its not dynamic at all , no city change hand, no city is burn out (in 15 year only 2 city was destroyed and that all lol)

Hillsbrad Fields. Southshore. Camp Taurajo. Thalanaar. Mirage Raceway. Steamwheedle Port. Auberdine. Honor's Stand was burned down and taken by the Alliance. Silverwind Refuge was taken by the Horde.

[Kaver]

BFA was more like Legion 0.5... they took a pretty good game and made it worse for no reason.

[Whitedragon]

This is such a ridiculous claim.

Players saying anima is only for cosmetics/mounts are probably not playing the game.

In order to unlock soulbinds and conduits, you need to raise up renown. In order to you raise your renown, you need to farm 1K anima/week.

Your player power (soulbinds/conduits) are directly behind anima farming.

For players saying you don't need to farm anima at all if you don't care about soulbinds and conduits, because even if you are behind, you will catch up fast later.

In that logic, you didn't need to farm AP in Legion/BFA either, if you don't care about your weapon/HoA rank. And there were AP knowledge that increase every week, you will catch up fast anyway.

anima/renown is exactly the same thing as artifact power/azerite power, 100%, just with different names.

Strictly speaking if you never touch the anima quest you would only ever be 1 renown behind on any given week, because you can just run dungeons to regain the lost mark the week after.

[Kalontas]

I do hope that the next expansion brings some kind of evergreen system that isn't immediately forgotten in the next one.

One idea I had was "themes". You'd align your character to one of the cosmic powers, regardless of class. Basically, recoloring your spell kit to a different color and spell schools, giving you unique gear and abilities and a special talent system. So you could become a fel paladin, a nature warlock, etc.

[chiddie]

IF you are not interested at all in cosmetics or building upgrades, you can stick with the 1000 anima weekly renown quest which is not that much grind unless you want to cap those 1000 the reset day.

During the week you can usually access at least 3 250 anima quests: the world boss and a couple of purple ones “fill the % bar killing mobs” that take something like 10 minutes each (they are all doable in groups and there are always plenty of groups available to sign in).

With these three you can get to 750 easily. The other 250 you can earn by doing the weekly dungeon quests, you just queue to them in normal mode and breeze through them in 15-20 minutes each, queue included. Or you can passively obtain them by doing 4-5 adventures that give anima.

Overall (I repeat, IF you don’t want to cap 1000 the reset day) it’s something like one hour per week more or less, I would say totally acceptable.

Of course if you instead wanna buy cosmetics or upgrade buildings or take to 197 all the covenant set it’s a totally different story and it’s a grinding fest.

[Zka]

And "playing alts - leveling and dungeons and older/smaller raids" is only part of the current "there is so much to do". What do you want?

For example I want to have ZERO solo activites that give player power that is otherwise unobtainable. I also want them to respect my playtime and not deliberately make traveling and many other trivial and uninteresting things slower than they took in the past.

[Flurryfang]

Big WoW player since launch, I still love this game 17 years later. Of the recent expansions the past 5+ years, I LOVED Legion, it's easily one of my fav expansions, so many cool new things to do in it, and it was a fresh and so fun, never stale or boring whatsoever. Class Halls, and artifact appearances, specific class mounts, and Mage Tower and a new class in Demon Hunter, they created Mythic + dungeons, etc...

But lately with BfA ( Legion 2.0 ) and now Shadowlands ( Legion 3.0 ) I'm starting to hit a wall in boredom of the same old, same old. It feels like Legion, just continued, but not in a good way.

And no, it's not just WoW or I am getting burned out or getting older with different interests, no it's specifically shitty WoW development. I love WoW, but we're basically on the third expansion in a row that have the stupid crappy systems and same stuff again and again.

World Quests were great and exciting in Legion, then ok BfA, but now totally suck in SL. What happened to the kill one boss WQ's, instead we get these tedious and boring fill the XP bar WQ's and now they seem to take longer, one kill only gives you 1% or 2%, meaning it takes FOREVER to complete it, and by the time I hit 100% and complete the World Quest I am so freaking bored and frustrated.

And the systems made in Legion were cool, and fresh, Artifacts and Legendary's, and Netherlight Crucible, etc... Then Blizzard blows it all up, and creates a whole new system for BfA with Azerite, and Essences, and Corruption ( Ugh the worst ) and then the next expansion Shadowlands, they nuke it all again, and give us a whole new set of stupid systems with Covenants, and Soul binds, and blah, blah, blah, holy fuck just stop this already Blizz.

Stop creating brand new game systems, it's the worst. We don't need Artifact or Azerite, or Covenant gear.

I don't want to grind for AP, or Azerite or Anima.

I don't want worse World Quests that are very time consuming and just boring AF.


Is there a possibility of a new creative team or director for the next expansion? I don't want Legion 4.0 anymore, I want a fresh take on WoW, new blood to take on the reigns. Whole new thought process for the game, no more Artifact or Azerite or Covenants, but part 4 in the next expansion, please no more.

There is always a possiblity for WoW to be new and fresh, but it would require a bold move from the side of Blizzard, which they won't do.

WoW is their stable cash-cow and there is no reason at all to rock the boat. No matter how good or bad the game is, aslong as it produces a stable monetary income, there is no need to change the game in any major way.

WoW is the conservative MMO and i think there is a much higher chance of Blizzard just letting WoW die out than actually changing it like you want.

[Aleksej89]

Over many years WoW stopped being an RPG/adventure game and became just a number treadmill grind.

In Vanilla/tbc and even wotlk a biiiiiiig % of playerbase never did any raids nor seriously grinded any gear.
They just spent time leveling, doing professions, world pvp and battlegrounds, trying out different classes, doing dungeons, finishing every quest in every zone etc.
That experience is comparable to old RPGs such as Neverwinter Nights where you play to have fun - not to grind some numbers like its your job.

These days wow is exclusively about grinding mythic+ dungeons or mythic raids.
PVP has not received any respectable new content in years and the whole class/rpg and character progression aspect of WoW is reduced to "reach max lvl, grind ilvl".

Blizz is not interested in providing a proper RPG and adventure experience - they realize easy money is in shallow flashy mechanics (like mobile games) and in the "you must daily grind them all" epeen mentality.

[owbu]

I think shadowlands differs from legion in a pretty significant way, because it has a vastly different reward system. Going from infinite grinds and casino itemlvl to to no power progression through AP and fixed numbers again is a major break in design philosophy. And a good one, in my opinion.

Sadly, I dont think they really have the time/manpower/talent anymore to create new major systems that are as game changing as legions new features were. So I dont think we will ever get an expansion again that introduces a new major pillar of gameplay like m+ and world quests/emissaries (which were really not my cup of tea, but definetely changed the way we do outdoor content radically). All we can hope for, it seems, is that the tacked on "one expansion, then nuke it" side activities are somewhat fun (torghast) and not the worst content ever made (warfronts).

[chiddie]

Over many years WoW stopped being an RPG/adventure game and became just a number treadmill grind.

In Vanilla/tbc and even wotlk a biiiiiiig % of playerbase never did any raids nor seriously grinded any gear.
They just spent time leveling, doing professions, world pvp and battlegrounds, trying out different classes, doing dungeons, finishing every quest in every zone etc.
That experience is comparable to old RPGs such as Neverwinter Nights where you play to have fun - not to grind some numbers like its your job.

These days wow is exclusively about grinding mythic+ dungeons or mythic raids.
PVP has not received any respectable new content in years and the whole class/rpg and character progression aspect of WoW is reduced to "reach max lvl, grind ilvl".

Blizz is not interested in providing a proper RPG and adventure experience - they realize easy money is in shallow flashy mechanics (like mobile games) and in the "you must daily grind them all" epeen mentality.

Wow is always been about grinding gear. I think I never rpged one day in 16 years apart when following the story lines, if this can even be called rpging.

Apart from cosmetics/pets/mount collect addicted, EVERY activity you do in game is about getting more powerful gear to do more difficult content or to make easy content even easier. And this, I repeat, from day one of Vanilla.

We can debate on how it felt different and/or more satisfying doing content back then to acquire better gear, but the purpose was always that one.

[Aleksej89]

Wow is always been about grinding gear. I think I never rpged one day in 16 years apart when following the story lines, if this can even be called rpging.

Apart from cosmetics/pets/mount collect addicted, EVERY activity you do in game is about getting more powerful gear to do more difficult content or to make easy content even easier. And this, I repeat, from day one of Vanilla.

We can debate on how it felt different and/or more satisfying doing content back then to acquire better gear, but the purpose was always that one.

Hard disagree.
I never cared about grinding gear in wow, especially not in vanilla/tbc/wotlk.
Raiding community was small back in those days and the majority of players played for fun and did not give any serious damn about grinding more powerful gear to do more difficult content.

Purpose of the game is to have fun.
The majority of the players had tons of fun without ever having to grind gear or even entering raids.
Developing your characters is a stable of every RPG but doing it by grinding ilvl/AP is the lamest most unimaginative way of doing it.

[erifwodahs]

Big WoW player since launch, I still love this game 17 years later. Of the recent expansions the past 5+ years, I LOVED Legion, it's easily one of my fav expansions, so many cool new things to do in it, and it was a fresh and so fun, never stale or boring whatsoever. Class Halls, and artifact appearances, specific class mounts, and Mage Tower and a new class in Demon Hunter, they created Mythic + dungeons, etc...

But lately with BfA ( Legion 2.0 ) and now Shadowlands ( Legion 3.0 ) I'm starting to hit a wall in boredom of the same old, same old. It feels like Legion, just continued, but not in a good way.
[/B]

I think lot's of my friends get the same sentiment. It's not bad, we just don't feel like "wanna login and smash some m+/arenas" while we literally couldn't play enough of Legion.

[kranur]

They seem to believe that they have struck gold with the Legion systems design and rng's everywhere. Doubt they will change the design anytime soon.

[Surfacin9]

OP, did it ever occur to you that every expansion is Classic X.0???? Same classes and core abilities, every xpac you get new quests, new zones, new mobs, new raids, new dungeons. But its the same systems - quests, dungeons, raids, loot.

You claim to hve loved legion, but then state that you don't want artifacts and don't want to grind AP. That feature was at the core of Legion.
World quests were also a big feature of Legion, yet you dislike them.

- Shadowlands flight paths are the worst, always needing to fly to Oribos to get to another SL zone. Really Blizz, you think that's fun and cool?

Lack of interconnected zones makes it different from Legion where only Argus added in the last patch was disconnected. The rest you could fly between without problems. So again you contradict yourself.

- And easy on the load screens already. Holy cow it's load screen city in this game lately. And I have a fast gaming rig with 64GB DDR4 with a solid state drive and newest Intel CPU. And I'm sick of the load screens just kills the immersion MMO factor.

They were there from the start, don't port or enter instances if you wnt to avoid them, otherwise - they were here from the start.

- No flight whistle? And why is that?

Again, part of Legion that wasn't added here. You want Legion features without the expansion being Legion 3.0? You gotta decide what you want.

- Most classes have some form of quick fast walking or floating or whatnot on a cool down. But it's a sick joke, like DK's get Wraith Walk move fast for what several seconds, then wait on the long cool down. It's like Blizzard lives to tease us, ok you can move quickly, but only for a very short time, then back to crawling slow movement.

Much like any other class. Go back pre-cata where most classes didn't have a movement ability. And actually DK with WW and SA is mobile enough. Go ask warlocks (who have to sacrifice survivability talent and own hp to move fast) and priests (who have to place feathers on the ground) how they are feeling.

- The Maw. Who at Blizz thought a whole zone with virtually no mounting wouid be fun? Yeah you can grab that one mount in there, but still. It's basically no riding in The Maw just slow walking. How is that fun?

Again, something different not only from Legion, but from all the rest of the expansions. Should count as something 'fresh' in your book. Guess you didn't play vanilla sub level 40 where every zone was the Maw until you unlocked the flight paths. For its size, the Maw gives plenty of transportation methods - 'borrowed' mounts, grapple point, teleports, invis+speed potion.

- Legacy old content, let us frigging mount up in old Raids abd Dungeons, or at least make the cool downs much shorter or last longer for our classes Wraith Walk type spells.

They need to change one of the core designes just so you can run content where you 1 shot everything even faster? Entitled much?

and give us a whole new set of stupid systems with Covenants, and Soul binds, and blah, blah, blah

So you want something new or something old? The title says you want something fresh, but you bash a whole new set of systems.

It seems you are quite confused about what you want, you claim you want a fresh and interesting game, but it sounds like you want an easy welfare experience game.

I loved Legion and I love Shadowlands so far, but just so you understand how wrong you title is, here's a quick round-up of Legiong features and explanation how SL isn't that:
- Artifacts and AP grind - none in SL;
- Flight whistle - none, but a separate unlockable covenant specific travel system in each zone;
- Random legendaries - crafted legendaries;
- Gem-slot things instead of actual weapon drops - weapon tokens that let you choose a weapon with covenant specific looks;
- Suramar and forced questing there - completely optional timeless isle style Maw with a iserable amount of quests;
- Tons of world quests and percieved forced grind - less world quests, no forced grind;
- Flexible zone order while levelling - strict 'on the rails' levelling experience with an option to completely skip it for alts;
- Mythic+ - became a core system much like hc and mythic dungeons and multiple difficulty raids, i.e. systems that are present in every expansion after their introduction.