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  1. #1

    Why doesn't WoW have load outs?

    You know, for lack of a better example, like Call of Duty (or one of many other games) does?

    You pick what talents, soul binds, and gear you want for each loadout.

    Takes the headache and annoyance of constantly having to manually switch them, which can already do, just takes longer and is more annoying.

    Especially if you do a bit of everything.

    So why is this not in the game? Is there a good reason?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    You know, for lack of a better example, like Call of Duty (or one of many other games) does?

    You pick what talents, soul binds, and gear you want for each loadout.

    Takes the headache and annoyance of constantly having to manually switch them, which can already do, just takes longer and is more annoying.

    Especially if you do a bit of everything.

    So why is this not in the game? Is there a good reason?
    old engine, man.
    the game engine is old like ours grampa

  3. #3
    This is one thing that wow -needs-, especially for classes that have to have different sets for PvP and M+ and Raids.

  4. #4
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    You know, for lack of a better example, like Call of Duty (or one of many other games) does?

    You pick what talents, soul binds, and gear you want for each loadout.

    Takes the headache and annoyance of constantly having to manually switch them, which can already do, just takes longer and is more annoying.

    Especially if you do a bit of everything.

    So why is this not in the game? Is there a good reason?
    You do know you can save gear sets in your character window you have your equipment manager in which you have an option to "save" the currently equipped gear set, and set it to a specific specialization, right? And when you switch specs, you switch gear too, automatically.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You do know you can save gear sets in your character window you have your equipment manager in which you have an option to "save" the currently equipped gear set, and set it to a specific specialization, right? And when you switch specs, you switch gear too, automatically.
    Ya, I mean, that helps, but it's missing soul binds and different builds for pvp, M+, timewalking, raiding, etc.

  6. #6
    Well, you can cycle up through various base action-bars. It won't replace all of them, but it will replace your core 1 through = keys. And, technically, you do have loadouts -- you just only get one per specialization...

    ... But yeah I agree it'd be nice if you could save multiple per spec. But if you could save so many and swap so freely, at that point the entire choice of talents and soul binds and gear for a spec and all that kind of goes out the window -- at that point the game may as well not have them if players would adjust for the situation anyway.

    That's probably the reasoning why they don't do loadouts.

    I guess the major concern would be that players wouldn't feel as attached to their build or their character that way, if they just changed freely to whatever fit the situation all the time. Having some semblance of permanence even if the restriction is just to trivial content still at least gives players a feeling of "this is what I'll use when I'm too lazy to spend the gold to throw out a tome to swap talents," or whatever, so at least you have that kind of identity.

    I guess identity is important to your character somehow, so maybe you feel more attached to some talents and abilities more than other - so you feel like you have your own style of play, so you can feel like you are expressing yourself some of the time rather than just always doing whatever is optimal.

    It may feel bad to not always be able to be optimal, but if you always were optimal and there was never any choice for everyone, then the game would probably lose that sense of agency and expression over your own play and also style.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    Well, you can cycle up through various base action-bars. It won't replace all of them, but it will replace your core 1 through = keys. And, technically, you do have loadouts -- you just only get one per specialization...

    ... But yeah I agree it'd be nice if you could save multiple per spec. But if you could save so many and swap so freely, at that point the entire choice of talents and soul binds and gear for a spec and all that kind of goes out the window -- at that point the game may as well not have them if players would adjust for the situation anyway.

    That's probably the reasoning why they don't do loadouts.

    I guess the major concern would be that players wouldn't feel as attached to their build or their character that way, if they just changed freely to whatever fit the situation all the time. Having some semblance of permanence even if the restriction is just to trivial content still at least gives players a feeling of "this is what I'll use when I'm too lazy to spend the gold to throw out a tome to swap talents," or whatever, so at least you have that kind of identity.

    I guess identity is important to your character somehow, so maybe you feel more attached to some talents and abilities more than other - so you feel like you have your own style of play, so you can feel like you are expressing yourself some of the time rather than just always doing whatever is optimal.

    It may feel bad to not always be able to be optimal, but if you always were optimal and there was never any choice for everyone, then the game would probably lose that sense of agency and expression over your own play and also style.
    I feel like people mostly already change things to fit their situation already.

    I mean, I could see maybe keep soul binds out of it, but gear and talents are already changeable where ever, just in a slower, more annoying way.

  8. #8
    I'm guessing wow just needs to be completely rewritten but that's never going to happen.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    I feel like people mostly already change things to fit their situation already.

    I mean, I could see maybe keep soul binds out of it, but gear and talents are already changeable where ever, just in a slower, more annoying way.
    It's cumbersome enough to not be changed all the time, but barely convenient enough for people who do actually want to change for situations -- but it requires some cost, whether that be gold or time (well, gold is time in a sense anyway) so if we're really getting down to it the experience of it may be annoying in practice, but what you gain out of satisfaction as a normal playing by having those attachments to certain talents and soul-binds and gear-sets and such I would argue is probably what keeps the system the way it is. If there wasn't any value at all to players being able to express themselves and have favorite talents and such, they wouldn't even be there in the first place. Players like choice - even if it's a bit arbitrary, and even if it's a little inconvenient. If there were no choice, if you could take whatever whenever, it may be less annoying but it would just be annoying in another way -- that you in practicality would always be using the same loadouts for all the same counter-play and it would never vary. It would be just another way of not having choice. I understand and sympathize for people who want to have the freedom to switch they see it as a restriction, and they see it as not having choice - but to the other camp I think it is also a case of seeing it like not having choice that way, of being always locked in that way.

    Edit:

    Which isn't to say that a loadout system can't work - in the past, (Mists? WoD?) you could change your talents more freely but you were still restricted to Dual Spec. You didn't just have a loadout for every situation. You could save a loadout for maybe one spec and another and unless you were sacrificing one you didn't really have the other. Dual Spec basically went away in Legion - when we could swap between all specs freely, granting players more 'loadouts' but not as much choice in what type. Restrictions to always being varied specs for loadouts.

    The only way I can see a loadout style returning, is if something like a loadout number restriction on it comes with it being low in count again, like say 2-4. DPS specs could focus on all one spec if they wanted, but others could diversify their loadouts to other specs for those other situations if they wanted and so on. But, just having unlimited loadouts I don't think is the answer. Some restriction is necessary to keep "the choice" in, otherwise everyone is optimal all the time and the entire premise for talents and all choice is removed. Ultimately, it would be automated that way - people would have addons to swap around talents and loadouts really easily (as they may now when using tomes) to kind of imitate this freedom. But it would just lead to that restrictive mode of only having those same builds all the time for all situations.

    We're currently in a state of compromise between the two ideologies. You pay gold for the convenience to change more, but it isn't infinite -- but you CAN change enough with enough preparation and resources, so it isn't too cumbersome for those competitive who need it, but it is still restrictive enough for the casual side to enjoy the choice angle more where it may or may not be more enjoyed.

    In the past you could pay directly through the talent window to drop gold to change talents, and other times you had to drop gold at the trainer to initialize this. It's very similar to the Tome -- but, arguably the old way didn't have any kind of regulation to the gold cost. It could either be way too much or trivial. By using the Tomes this way, the gold cost can be regulated to be something reasonable but still affordable based on how available resources like mats are.

    I think where it is at is fair play. Maybe a limited 2-4 loadout style could work, and maybe it'd just be a plus for people who like just one spec (or a couple) and don't care for the rest. That's a way to have choice too, that's a way to keep it limited without just giving everyone multiple loadouts for all specs which I think would break any kind of choice that would be there otherwise however marginal by Tomes it is.
    Last edited by Razion; 2021-03-02 at 06:15 AM.

  10. #10
    What is the point of loadouts?

    1. Blizzard creates a game.
    2. People say its boring add more systems please.
    3. Blizzard adds more systems to switch around and play with.
    4. People say its too much to deal with, create loadouts so I can swap to the most efficient thing in 1 second.
    5. Back to step 2.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  11. #11
    Loadouts are a lobby-game feature.
    I hope we stay as far as possible from those.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zmagoslav View Post
    Loadouts are a lobby-game feature.
    I hope we stay as far as possible from those.
    Explain why it's a bad thing?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    So why is this not in the game? Is there a good reason?
    There's several reasons.

    Prominent among them is the fact that they don't WANT people swapping setups all the time. It makes people min/max, which creates meta expectations, which intimidates new players, which impacts player acquisition and retention. In their ideal world Blizzard wants people to pick one setup and do everything with it reasonably well - all forms of PvE, all forms of PvP.

    They could make WoW's system more complex and deep, and add facilitators that feed such complexity (like loadouts). But they don't want that. Blizzard's formula is now largely catering to the broad masses, with a few choice tidbits for the extreme ends of the demographic. That requires simplification, and ease of use. The more options you add, the more systems you add to switch between options, the more confusing it becomes for the broad masses.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    Explain why it's a bad thing?
    Lobby gameplay caters to a certain demographic i'd rather not associate myself with by further enabling the rush-mentality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    They could make WoW's system more complex and deep, and add facilitators that feed such complexity (like loadouts). But they don't want that. Blizzard's formula is now largely catering to the broad masses, with a few choice tidbits for the extreme ends of the demographic. That requires simplification, and ease of use. The more options you add, the more systems you add to switch between options, the more confusing it becomes for the broad masses.
    Why would they spend more resources on complexity, and by association balancing that complexity, if the end result stays the same?
    The masses will always copy-paste specs posted on prominent websites no matter how many choices and how much complexity is within it.
    Last edited by Zmagoslav; 2021-03-02 at 06:29 AM.

  15. #15
    I want this!

    In SL its even worse with more abilities & stuff to use... Every arena I go in is a mess. Action bars, talents, items...

  16. #16
    The game's lead designer is on record specifically stating that he doesn't want the game to have load-outs so it's pretty safe to say that this convenience is the last thing on the current teams' minds. Not to say that it wouldn't be nice, it's just something that is extremely unlikely to be implemented any time soon.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Zmagoslav View Post
    Lobby gameplay caters to a certain demographic i'd rather not associate myself with by further enabling the rush-mentality.


    Why would they spend more resources on complexity, and by association balancing that complexity, if the end result stays the same?
    The masses will always copy-paste specs posted on prominent websites no matter how many choices and how much complexity is within it.
    It's not exclusive to lobby games and being a tool lobby games commonly use doesn't equate to it being exclusive to a certain demographic.

    And honestly WoW kind of is a "lobby game" already at endgame. Instead of waiting in a lobby, you wait in Oribos.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by arr0gance View Post
    The game's lead designer is on record specifically stating that he doesn't want the game to have load-outs so it's pretty safe to say that this convenience is the last thing on the current teams' minds. Not to say that it wouldn't be nice, it's just something that is extremely unlikely to be implemented any time soon.
    Did he give a reason?

  18. #18
    So diablo's 3 wardrobe?

  19. #19
    A loadout system like this would be actually great.

    Now you can reduce the steps a bit already like using macros for talents, the equipment manager etc., but it's still a bit annoying and unnecessary and there's just no solution for soulbinds at all. There will probably never be a full solution for soulbinds as these are expansion specific, however for the other stuff I could imagine that something can be done here or they should at least allow addon makers to automate talent, equipment and action bar switching better.
    Last edited by RobertMugabe; 2021-03-02 at 07:13 AM.

  20. #20
    RPG. You’re supposed to build a character, not switch everything willy nilly.

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