Solving the housing and capital city problem in one stroke

[AkundaMrdal]

Go play minecraft.

[Razion]

My gut reaction to this is that it sounds like Garrisons, and Garrisons bombed HARD.

The experience of building up the Garrison was bare last time, sure. And while yes also Garrisons didn't make perfect Capitals that isn't what housing is supposed to be. People want housing because of the customizing. They want to have a space and make it look like theirs and they don't care about anything else around or outside of that space. Look to games like Sims, or Animal Crossing. Housing is about expressing yourself and being creative.

Maybe guild halls could have worked back in 2007 or something, but right now in 2021 players will just lock themselves in their own houses if they get half a chance and unless you have one dedicated guild member working on the guild hall that entire aspect is wasted effort. It's not that guild halls aren't a cool idea, they are, but the effort needs to go where everyone is going to appreciate it - into the base systems of the customizing.

People need to be able to scale shit, to rotate, and move it around in 3D space freely. Shit needs good collision and not boxy-ass space occupancy. What's nice about not doing guild halls is that even without implementing larger spaces for this a guild will naturally if it was going to have meetings in a house probably gravitate to one player's house for these meetings anyway and no doubt some people will model them to take on the fantasy of a guild hall -- that's the beauty of the customization style of this kind of system. They don't have to define a place as a guild hall for a player to make their house into one. A player's space should be freely customizable like that, where they can get those kinds of unique looks and atmospheres that they're after.

What I don't think players are at all interested in is the city-scape aspect of this. Players will mount through a capital of houses and go straight to conveniences. Because why do players go around capitals - to look at the walls? No, they go to a capital because it has the functionality they need. And yeah, players are focused a lot on their gameplay, but what we learned with Garrisons is that they can't be so gameplay and systems centric again. Like transmog, housing is not that kind of game mode.

[Lochton]

1. Player housing is actual a city you build over time.

Start with a building, and it expands, with upgrades and extensions, incorporate class order halls to train troops, improve research that gives access to special equipement, boost commerce to compete with rival cities, embassies from different races attract more citizens. This is a system. That can function as a mini-game that has parts independent of progresion but each expansion can have a feature that is tied into that expansions system.

2. This unlike player gear doesn't reset every expansions, everything in the game now gives resources that can go towards improving your player housing

3. Different features will tie into each new expansions progression system, to help boost your character, so while expanding your city is independent f player porgression, it will alwyas be relevant to becasue something in it will connect to whatever system is being employed (ask me if you want me to expand)

4. You can pick a city based on each race's architectural style, and populate with buildings of your choice. here are the styles you have.




5. Players will share the same racial city they pick. for example if you choose to build an orcish city, when you go there you will see other players there who chose and go to the orc city, the differences in how built up the city is are local to your machine. So if you've greatly developed your city, and the player you see in the auction house hasn't, you would have no idea, on his screen, his city will be as developed as he has made it, on your screen, yours would be as you have made it... you can invite people to your city, and guilds can make their ir city in any guild members city or have their own

6. Guild members can acquire buildings in guild cities that they can decorate and facilitate when they visit the guild city

7. You can always start a second city - truth is cities will gain expansions every patch, so it is possible you could have maxed out your current city and not have much to send your contributions to, you can either invest your contributions in decorations and adornments, or start a second city while you wait. It is recommended





how it is designed. Devs have an artist sketch of all the cities and what they would look like fully developed.
they've already planned the stages for each expansion and how they grow
Every patch cycle they work on the next expansion slot for each city while you are unlocking the stuff just released, which they were working on during the previous patch - they are always one patch ahead naturally.

In time, these will grow into large cities where you can carry out things. If you've unlocked the AH in your city, you can use it there, and basically every player that has unlocked the AH in that city would have access to it, otherwise they can go to

Good idea but for player housing, I'd rather it be your own option of location, following the design of that location (Orc wanting to live in a Tauren Village, Forsaken wishing to live in a Blood Elven neighbourhood, Vulpera wanted to live in Bilgewater Harbour, etc). Have housing be like LOTRO, phased neighbourhoods kind of things where you can design your own home, maybe have a little pond/garden etc), as my other dream doesn't work with WoW's engine (ArchAge).

[Mysterymask]

Some times I feel like I'm the only one to understands this, but the additions of Garrisons wasn't the problem with WoD. The lack of everything else, was the problem.

...yeah but the lack of everything else can be tied to said garrisons

If players prefer the path of least resistance than the garrison is a giant open assed doorway

Need gold? Garrison did it
Gear? Garrison did it too
Profession materials? Does it
Only reason to leave was skinning and maybe to use the AH unless you raided...

[ravenmoon]

@ravenmoon

Is there a Player Housing problem? A Blizzard problem, that is?
The only problem I see, is that there have been THREE attempts at please a small vocal minority, and all failed.

The majority of players don't need nor want housing. The problem is when Blizzard caves in to the vocal minority and does something neither suporters nor opposers like, such as Garrison and Orderhall.

People are always asking for improved capital cities, they want for their races... many requests for player housing, and similar complaints as not much to do in cities.


Well how about you manage your city? that gives you something to do.. the city is a system and not just a place you walk into to vendor trash and pick up an occasional quest.

you can partake in this activity or not, but it's a long term based thing that is a visual and functional reward for those who play long term and don't just sign in and out. at it's heart.

The point is each player can pick a city themed after a set number of races .. you're not just building your private garrison or house, you're building a zone that will serve as the races new capital city -- (eventually, achieving capital city status is part of the progression system, when this occurs, the racial leaders will move to this capital).

the thing each city is in a racial location that is the same for every player. for e.g. if the Draenei city is in the Dalaran crater, all who choose Draenei to build their capital will build at the Dalaran Crater, once you start, you will see other players who go there, it's not private like Garrisons, but more like Class order halls, the difference is how advanced and progressed it looks depends on how far you've developed it.

You will always have a reason to go back to your capital city now, as this is where you deal with a lot of the systems that manage and improve it, you add designs to it, you open up features, eventually quest givers that are normally in other capitals will be found here, racial quests also start from here.. if you're a Goblin but building a blood elf city, Goblin racial quests will be at the goblin embassy when you've acquired them.


The idea is that not only do the races all get a capital city, but you actually are responsible for developing it and building it. It comes complete with mission tables, and feature s of its own, but it will have functions that tie into whatever the new expansions progression system is, that will always give an excuse for you to go there - this operates a bit like Class order halls did in Legion - so even if you don't develop your city and it just the one starting building and you prefer to hang out in Orgrimmar or Stormwind or the other capitals, you can still do that, but like order halls you'd still have to make the trip back to your capital.

Now some people will have no interest in improving, that's fine, the part that ties into player progression for the expansion, wouldn't require a developed city, , just a one building, which would have been part of the questing of the expansion that introduced it, just like we all have Class order halls and we all got garrisons, but if you don't want to develop this any further.. you will just have that and the portions you need that tie into that expansions progression system which connects to new capitals would be there.


For all those who wanted housing, who wanted racial capitals to be improved, available and play some sort of role in the gaming experience, having some use.. this is it.

It's perfect to introduce in a race expansion, that has a similar talent progression like covenants but this time involves races. Extra perks for developing your capital would involve things like able to command a battalion of npcs from that race in certain activities, when certain events happen that use generic alliance soldiers or horde soldiers, they would instead use the race of your characters capital.



This system is meant for long term.. it's supposed to allow the building of a great looking racial city, and be a source of driving racial story progression/campaigns but is it's own system that won't reset every expansion, so imagine with updates given every so often, in about 10 years, your wow capital zones could look amazing. ofc you'd have spent a little time building it up, it's a reward for having subscribed so long and an incentive to keep doing so.

There is no catch up, but a new player who wants to develop his city can always start, when it is first introduced, it's little expansions every patch, they don't take the whole patch cycle to fully complete, that's not the point, once you max out the improvement, you always have the option to start a second city or just coast till the next expansion arrives, so a player 10 years down the line, should probably take about 1-2 years to catch up on one city to where those who had start with the intro and kept were, but ofc, that's if he focused entirely on one city, he'd then have to spend an equal amount of time to develop the second to the current frontier.

But it's largely for aesthetics and that systems on mini-game. But it gives something useful, you can work on, improve, customise, and it will always have some function tied into the game system of that expansion, but think of that a bit like as if Class order halls never went away, where in one expansion it tied into Artifact power, in another Azerite, etc, if race campaigns became a thing, it would be perfect, you'd get racial quests every patch that advance the story of the race, these will come form the new capital

[fatgunn]

Player housing does not need to be any where near this complicated. IF Blizz wants to add it, we just need a customizable home with display areas for pets/achieves/xmog. That's it. The only social function it needs is to be able to invite others to see it. No farm/mining component. No mission table. Make decorations/furniture obtainable the same way toys and pets are now.

I see player housing as an extension of the collection systems we already have. The two bits of the garrison that actually came closes to player housing customization was being able to have your favorite pets and mounts show up.

[BrintoSFJ]

How about we turn the capital cities into actual player housing system? It could start with Night Elves getting a new city and both horde and alliance sending members to help them build the city. There could even be a world first achievement associated with which server can finish the Nigh Elf city faster. But it doesn't stop at just finishing the city, then players can continue to upgrade the city in many categories. The same can be done with all the capital cities.

[Rendark]

This. Player housing has no place in wow.

Why do you say that?

[Depakote]

Stop coming up with bad ideas. blizzard has proven they're quite capable of doing that on their own.

[Nnyco]

Now imagine em using the resources it would take to create that on something actually not crap.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Some times I feel like I'm the only one to understands this, but the additions of Garrisons wasn't the problem with WoD. The lack of everything else, was the problem.

Obviously you are not, but some people keep falling for Blizzard's cheap diversion tactics or blame everything on a single scape goat feature that they have made experiences with. It started with LFD, which frankly is an absolutely essential tool if you value the time of your playerbase, and to this day people complain that LFR (LFD's evolution) is the one thing that drags the whole game down, not the lazy arse design of the rest. Not to mention that the only people that ever believed Garrisons to be housing are Blizzard (and let's be real here, they are bullshit merchants but even they know that wasn't the case) and people with sub tripple digit IQ.

[Asrialol]

Why do you say that?

Doesn't fit the game at all. This isn't a sandbox mmo, and the last thing the game needs is for players to be hidden away in their instanced homes.

[Rendark]

Doesn't fit the game at all. This isn't a sandbox mmo, and the last thing the game needs is for players to be hidden away in their instanced homes.

So rather then afking in a player house you want people to afk in Oribos?

[Wangming]

Obviously you are not, but some people keep falling for Blizzard's cheap diversion tactics or blame everything on a single scape goat feature that they have made experiences with. It started with LFD, which frankly is an absolutely essential tool if you value the time of your playerbase, and to this day people complain that LFR (LFD's evolution) is the one thing that drags the whole game down, not the lazy arse design of the rest. Not to mention that the only people that ever believed Garrisons to be housing are Blizzard (and let's be real here, they are bullshit merchants but even they know that wasn't the case) and people with sub tripple digit IQ.

Also true. Square did a huge oopsy by making Housing non instanced, but the sheer ammount of content tied to it proves that a houdsing system can be much more intricate than Garrisons were.

But even Garrisons would have been okay as an additional feature in an expansion with enough content. Waiting months for a content patch with selfie camera as the main feature was what killed WoD.

[Nadiru]

Can you just stop with player housing? This is awful idea. They gave it to you in WoD and it ended up being one of the worst expansions.

WoD being bad had nothing to do with the Garrisons.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Also true. Square did a huge oopsy by making Housing non instanced, but the sheer ammount of content tied to it proves that a houdsing system can be much more intricate than Garrisons were.

But even Garrisons would have been okay as an additional feature in an expansion with enough content. Waiting months for a content patch with selfie camera as the main feature was what killed WoD.

Well part of the issue was that garrisons gave you a ton of stuff, you can easily counteract that by simply not allowing people to mine at home (there is no reason to do that anyway in a normal housing system), certainly not in relevant quantities right off the bat. Then you could also produce items at garrisons without the appropriate job, etc. But as you said, even if that wouldn't have been the case, that still means there wasn't anything else of worth to do ingame other than the extremely lazy apexis crystal grind and later the shallow stuff in HFPI.

In the same vein Blizzard has made the mission table worse with each iteration so far, because the original got alot of flak because it was part of garrisons.

But then again I also have to admit that Housing only makes sense to bother with if you as the dev want to incorporate it into systems like crafting, and looking at the abyssmal rubbish that Blizzard has delivered here in the past 10 years.. yea fat chance of that happening.

[Asrialol]

So rather then afking in a player house you want people to afk in Oribos?

I understand. Have a nice day.

[rrayy]

There is no player housing problem nor is their a capital city one. This is another thinly veiled "We need player housing" threads and people need to stop with this.

[Rendark]

I understand. Have a nice day.

Do you really?

[Violent]

Imagine thinking garrisons was anything like player housing. Oh well.

Imagine thinking it's not. ::Shrug::

We can do that too. Maybe next time you'll offer up something other than your "imagination".