Solving the housing and capital city problem in one stroke

[Beloren]

Does anyone think wow has the capacity for anything more complex than a quick fix?

Please... people don't have that long term patience, unless it's designed well enough draw them in, and i don't think the developers would bother trying, it would take enormous effort and commitment to the long term.. warcraft doesn't do long term -- if it can't fit within a 2 year expansion cycle, it's not worth it, asking to develop anything that goes beyond , no matter how interesting you could make it would never work.



I think people who played wow during WoD, have lost perspective completely, and tank anythign that sounds similar, totally for getting that this is exactly what class order halls were, Garrisons done better and forgetting that Garrisons were actually a very popular feature, that became problematic for one reason only - you were compelled ot sit in a small and relatively boring space, doing nothing but run around to click on NPCs instead of going out there.

that was it. Class order halls fixed that by not cantering the majority of your activity within the space, and the normal things you need to do for player power need activities like questing, raids, dungeons, world quests etc..

Capital cities seems to be a very detailed evolution of the class order hall, much better, so I don't envision it having the same loathing as Garrisons, not at all, they know to demand that your questing takes you outside. If you want to spend all your time building your city, you can, but it won't be a requirement progressing your character - ora t least it won't be a major requirement like Garrisons were in WoD, it would be more on the level of Class order halls.

the problem with this is that the system proposed is too complex for wow. Not that it is like Garrisons, I don't think people are understanding OPs original proposal, if they think this is garrisons, rather the problem I see with it, is that it's too extensive, it's a major system, and it's ambitious.. they just won't do it.

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Doesn't fit the game at all. This isn't a sandbox mmo, and the last thing the game needs is for players to be hidden away in their instanced homes.

Did I read something different from you? I thought hte guy said it's a shared space like class order halls, it's just the buildings will look different on the local client based on how far you've progressed = not garrisons.

[Omedon]

Can you just stop with player housing? This is awful idea. They gave it to you in WoD and it ended up being one of the worst expansions.

No one who knows a thing about player housing could possibly mistake a WoW garrison for player housing.

And yes, I realize the WoW devs might have made the comparison. My above statement pointedly stands.

[A Chozo]

I'm saying this as a raider - I reckon more people would do player housing activies than non-LFR raiding.

Yeah, people here greatly underestimate the appeal of those casual features. Shit like hunting for transmog and a possible player housing are way more popular than whatever niche thing the hardcore part of the playerbase wants.

Garrison was just an glorified quest hub, proper player housing would be awesome and popular.

[unbound]

Can you just stop with player housing? This is awful idea. They gave it to you in WoD and it ended up being one of the worst expansions.

rofl

No they didn't. That wasn't even close to player housing...and even Blizz acknowledged that.

WoD gave you a very half-a**ed, half-hearted attempt that was too much effort, so they abandoned that half-effort and gave you garrisons. You were supposed to be able to pick locations around at least one zone to put your housing, and there was supposed to be actual customization well beyond picking from a handful of buildings.

Furthermore, WoD was terrible not *because* of the garrison, but because of the lack of effort across the board (include the garrison).

That said, the real lesson WoD taught us is the Blizz has no interest in putting in the effort to create actual player housing. Until Blizz's attitude improves, we probably don't want anything they have to offer on the subject.

[Exeris]

Player housing has no place in wow.

Maybe, it's in development though.

[oldgeezer]

Player housing has no place in wow.

Many things had no place in WoW, until they did. PVE > PVP server transfers, tokens, mounts for real money, LFR etc etc.

[Ave07]

Player housing would be fine if it was only visuals like in FFXIV and not like WoD where you had everything like the AH, transmog vendor, and profession vendors to name the least which made it pointless to leave the Garrison for cities.

[Drusin]

So rather then afking in a player house you want people to afk in Oribos?

If [some] players don't see other players then the game is dead to them. It's the entire reason CRZ exists, "to make the world feel alive".

Imagine thinking garrisons was anything like player housing. Oh well.

Garrison=housing...wow...

No one who knows a thing about player housing could possibly mistake a WoW garrison for player housing.

You know what's interesting is all the times I've seen player housing brought up I don't think I've ever seen anyone link a video to player housing in other games. I'd imagine most everyone who hasn't researched what it is thinks that "player housing" is pretty much what garrisons are. If they haven't played a game with player housing then their only reference point is garrisons

[Temp name]

Maybe, it's in development though.

Have any proof it is in development, or are you just hoping?

Because it probably isn't

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If [some] players don't see other players then the game is dead to them. It's the entire reason CRZ exists, "to make the world feel alive".







You know what's interesting is all the times I've seen player housing brought up I don't think I've ever seen anyone link a video to player housing in other games. I'd imagine most everyone who hasn't researched what it is thinks that "player housing" is pretty much what garrisons are. If they haven't played a game with player housing then their only reference point is garrisons

WoW Devs made it very clear that Garrisons were the WoW equivalent to player housing though

[LordVargK]

I'm saying this as a raider - I reckon more people would do player housing activies than non-LFR raiding.

Only if it would award something. WoW players are purely reward driven by now.

[Asrialol]

Have any proof it is in development, or are you just hoping?

Because it probably isn't

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WoW Devs made it very clear that Garrisons were the WoW equivalent to player housing though

But its not the kind of player housing these guys wants, so it doesn't count.

[ravenmoon]

Does anyone think wow has the capacity for anything more complex than a quick fix?

Please... people don't have that long term patience, unless it's designed well enough draw them in, and i don't think the developers would bother trying, it would take enormous effort and commitment to the long term.. warcraft doesn't do long term -- if it can't fit within a 2 year expansion cycle, it's not worth it, asking to develop anything that goes beyond , no matter how interesting you could make it would never work.



I think people who played wow during WoD, have lost perspective completely, and tank anythign that sounds similar, totally for getting that this is exactly what class order halls were, Garrisons done better and forgetting that Garrisons were actually a very popular feature, that became problematic for one reason only - you were compelled ot sit in a small and relatively boring space, doing nothing but run around to click on NPCs instead of going out there.

that was it. Class order halls fixed that by not cantering the majority of your activity within the space, and the normal things you need to do for player power need activities like questing, raids, dungeons, world quests etc..

Capital cities seems to be a very detailed evolution of the class order hall, much better, so I don't envision it having the same loathing as Garrisons, not at all, they know to demand that your questing takes you outside. If you want to spend all your time building your city, you can, but it won't be a requirement progressing your character - ora t least it won't be a major requirement like Garrisons were in WoD, it would be more on the level of Class order halls.

the problem with this is that the system proposed is too complex for wow. Not that it is like Garrisons, I don't think people are understanding OPs original proposal, if they think this is garrisons, rather the problem I see with it, is that it's too extensive, it's a major system, and it's ambitious.. they just won't do it.

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Did I read something different from you? I thought hte guy said it's a shared space like class order halls, it's just the buildings will look different on the local client based on how far you've progressed = not garrisons.

The idea is actually quite simple

Now you can have your amazing blood elf city, you can actually make it much better by customissing it over time - and blizzard will continue to give it expansions portion by portion.

People are really missing the point of this - the idea is to have a capital city that instead you can help manage and decide where improvements , buildings etc go. It is kinda like a player housing but it's a capital city.

It's a capital city you develop. Blood elves get a new city, but it's not just a pretty landscape arc, that has no use after the few quests that take you there, instead you have a sub-system that let's you bring upgrades to it, you can choose different types of buildings for different places, but that's not all, you have a sub-game that is focused on improving things for blood elves in the region by making your capital stronger.

[Dastreus]

Imagine thinking it's not. ::Shrug::

We can do that too. Maybe next time you'll offer up something other than your "imagination".

Garrisons all pretty much look the same, and it's a glorified mission table/material farming place. Meanwhile, older games have figured out housing. Just two examples is all I need.



But hell, WoW barely has any place that looks like it'd house more than a dozen people (even the capital cities are sparsely housed). Suramar's about it. So I guess there's one reason WoW is just an inferior MMO.

[Logwyn]

Can you just stop with player housing? This is awful idea. They gave it to you in WoD and it ended up being one of the worst expansions.

If they had explained and improved it rather than just abandoning it things might have been different.

[ravenmoon]

@ravenmoon

Is there a Player Housing problem? A Blizzard problem, that is?
The only problem I see, is that there have been THREE attempts at please a small vocal minority, and all failed.

The majority of players don't need nor want housing. The problem is when Blizzard caves in to the vocal minority and does something neither suporters nor opposers like, such as Garrison and Orderhall.

Well, minority or not, we know player housing is something some people really dig, and it can be an awesome side feature for games that do it well, even if the crowd is niche, it draws in other types of players.

What is not niche however is the desire for rebuilding capitals, and races getting homes.. you always hear about updating Silvermoon, giving the night elves homes, new places for the forsaken, Gnomeragan made available etc.. but these places really just serve as glorified hubs - and if they're only purpose is flavour, it's hard to justify.

this is why new cities are often raid and dungeon zones as well as quest hubs like we saw with Suramar and the like, but outside the expansion you use them, they're useless.

Well what if cities had a game of it's own, where you added buildings, had to do things that could help a race in away that boosts its own mini-game /system, the improvements are local to the client even though the space is shared, so it works as basically housing, but instead of a house you're decorating, it's a city you're improving and managing.

The space is shared so it will never be like garrisons, it would be more like Class order halls and cities, except here what the buildings and the size of the city depends on your progress. numerous tie-ins to the current expansion and some minor features that can aid you in your adventure could also come to bear.

At the basic level it's basically away to give new capital cities for each race, have them actually have a use because the player is participating in improving them.

[kenn9530]

snip

Housing serves no place in WoW even in games like FF14 its mostly just pointless, anything they have done where you can build things in WoW has not been that great and building and improving cities would require a ton of work the game needs in all its other areas instead, what blizzard delivers for WoW is barely adequate as it is, you want to add more things that will cheapen the quality of the rest of the game.

There is tons of games where you can build houses all you want, WoW is not the game for housing.

[LedZeppelin]

go play animal crossing. they tried it in wow, it was ass, this whole idea is ass and literally no one cares

[stormrage666]

If player housing (I'd prefer guild housing...) could interfere how the capital city change, would be awesome. A true living city. With portals for others city, updating them (just imagine new silvermoon, WITH FLYING on it - just like orgrimmar updated on cataclysm).
There are so much things can make with this game, they just need to improve itself

BTW.... if Blizz ever tought of comming out saying: "Do you guys prefer new things like housing or a new tier? Because we can't focus on more than one thing" I'd reply: "How about I pay only half sub? I can't pay for a half done game".

[MoanaLisa]

Some times I feel like I'm the only one to understands this, but the additions of Garrisons wasn't the problem with WoD. The lack of everything else, was the problem.

You're partly right. As with any 'building game', for it to be successful it can't ever really be finished. No one would ever play games like Cities or SimCity if you could only go so far with what you're building and then you are told to stop, you're done. Garrisons were easily finished and not that long really after you started them. To that extent, they were a significant failure.

They're there though. Blizzard would likely never touch them again but it would take much less work to make them so you could build them out to the size of a small town and endlessly customize them. I'm not saying they should but the foundation is there. They would need to do something about having them truly customizable as to races, etc.

They won't. Probably for the best. I disagree with those that say that housing has no place in the game. It can and would be popular if it were done right. I no longer really rely on Blizzard to do things right any longer though, especially stuff like this. Ion is on record saying the only important things in the game are PVP and raids. He may now pay lip service to everything else as part of his responsibilities and the more-or-less abject failure of Warlords but I doubt if he's changed his mind about this.

This kind of stuff will always get a high-gloss 'never finished' design that is half-assed and ultimately unsatisfying (as so much of the game seems to be since the advent of disposable features and systems). My heart bleeds for the developers who bitch and complain about having to update old systems, maintain and refresh them for each expansion, the original reason why they started with all of the disposable expansion-specific stuff. Fuck any sort of consistency in the world is what they're saying. You're not onboard with the game if you're not willing to throw everything in the air and play 52-card pickup every 18-24 months.

[Wangming]

You're partly right. As with any 'building game', for it to be successful it can't ever really be finished. No one would ever play games like Cities or SimCity if you could only go so far with what you're building and then you are told to stop, you're done. Garrisons were easily finished and not that long really after you started them. To that extent, they were a significant failure.

True. A big problem was that they were put on the alternate timeline version of a different planet. AU Draenor is far removed from everything else in the game. If you had your Garrison in saaay Kalimdor, they could give you an excuse to return there regularly even during other expansions and add new buildings, new building tiers or any sort of customizable and/or collectable aspect. But they didn't and the borrowed power paradigm took over the world.