Page 1 of 9
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1

    The Story Is Utter Garbage Now

    No, not literally every single piece of story/lore this expansion, but a lot to be sure. Let me give you a potent example of what I mean:

    Kel'thuzad. He was a character I was looking forward to. What I wanted was for the Kel'thuzad of Warcraft 3 yore to return and give us an excellent performance. What we instead received was Kel'thuzad from Hearthstone - transported directly into WoW - a comical and one-dimensional sandbag solely existing to drive the terrible main plotline forward.

    Kel'thuzad was a layered and interesting villain in WC3 and early WoW, by all accounts a sociopath in life yet terrified and feeble when faced with the might of the Scourge, transformed into a deathly loyal servant of The Lich King, willing to die by the hands of Arthas, knowing he would later ascend to Lichdom. Even afterward, one poignant scene with him and Arthas shows him being viewed as a friend by Arthas - an interesting twist of fate. He was at all times absolutely competent, yet evil, but not in a comical nature.

    So... Why? Why can't we get more grounded, layered and mature stories in WoW these days? Isn't the majority of the playerbase in their late 20s/early 30s now? I can't imagine many teenagers are playing this game so late into its lifespan. Why this insipid adherence to Marvel-esque quip-happy storytelling? I feel like the writing team would love to just write all of WoW in the style of the Traveler series of children's books.
    Last edited by Edward Wu; 2021-02-28 at 03:21 PM.

  2. #2
    So... you base the quality of the entire story based on 1 character's portrayal?


    Are you even going to address his implementation in WotLK or does that not fit the narrative you are trying to spin here?


    Oh, and to your point that KT was a "layered" villain in WC3... are you kidding? "I MUST SPREAD THE PLAGUE, THE MASTER TOLD ME. HE SEES ALL" is layered to you? Seems very simple and, in your words, "comical" in nature. Almost Disney. Great example.


    One thing is for certain: this thread is utter garbage.


    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    So... Why? Why can't we get more grounded, layered and mature stories in WoW these days?
    Because the game has never been grounded, layered and matured to begin with. It's a game for fucking kids and teenagers that adults play as well. It's a fantasy game. It's base ESRB rating is "T" for "Teen" for crying out loud.

    Isn't the majority of the playerbase in their late 20s/early 30s now?
    Why are you asking us? You can't imagine people from ages like 7-8 up to 19 - 20 playing this game? Is that being dense???

    I can't imagine many teenagers are playing this game so late into its lifespan.
    That's more of a testament to your ability to use your brain rather than the current state of affairs. So, dense it is then.

    Why this insipid adherence to Marvel-esque quip-happy storytelling? I feel like the writing team would love to just write all of WoW in the style of the Traveler series of children's books.

    Because you have no real point to argue other than you don't like it. Your examples are bad and your reasoning above is worse.


    Jesus what is with the influx of these whining threads lately.
    Last edited by KOUNTERPARTS; 2021-02-28 at 03:58 PM.

  3. #3
    Why would we get the Kel'thuzad of Warcraft 3 when he hasn't been that since at least Wrath?
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    Mexico is already part of the USA so is Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Shandalar View Post
    Shadow deserves nothing, the same as Fire Mages.

  4. #4
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    11,881
    Do you think the story is garbage now, because one character? did you stop playing in MOP and come back now? because after MOP the story isn't that phenomenal to not say worse.

  5. #5
    You want Warcraft, a game where you can't walk 5 feet without running into a pop culture reference, to be grounded in gritty realism?

    If you want better fantasy worlds, go play ESO for the Elder Scrolls world, it's very good.
    Or play Neverwinter for the Forgotten Realms setting. D&D and Baldurs Gate is about as OG fantasy lore as it gets.
    Or play Return of Reckoning for the Warhammer setting.

    Warcraft is and always was comical and high concept, it goes out of its way to avoid dealing with realism and implications of things.

    I mean c'mon one of the most notable characters is a time travelling gnome, and we fight gods for dinner every expansion, what would even be the point of shifting gears towards a serious tone?

    IMO it works better with the comic book world, that occasionally dips into more serious tones when it needs to. Rather than a serious world that breaks its own immersion by being silly.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Why would we get the Kel'thuzad of Warcraft 3 when he hasn't been that since at least Wrath?
    He's controlling the Margrave of the House of Rituals and sending weapons and reinforcements to help Sire in Revendreth. It's unknown if he's actually affiliated with the Jailer. We eventually expel him from Maldraxxus and free Margrave Sin'dane from his control but he's still out there.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  7. #7
    How long will take for you to realise that Blizzard is bankrupt on ideas? Doesn't the endless barrage of re-releases give you a good enough clue?

  8. #8
    The Patient Yuli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    283
    Nice blog post opinion here. Vanilla Kel'thuzad was already not serious anymore. He's one of the most memed characters in Warcraft, ask his cat.
    WoW gives all players a glimpse of lore, but delivers well thought-out books for the nerds. Forums like MMO-C are the hotspot of discussion, because every reader reads a book different, and every player reads a game different, not everyone played every quest, and not everyone read every book. Sylvanas' character motivation is the most obvious example of that.

  9. #9
    Story was garbage since BC. Wich was actually their high point of garbage.
    Vanilla was ok because they made small ones.

  10. #10
    I cant agree more. Shadowlands is a lore rape like WoD was. MoP started as a joke but kind of got better along. Its a shame devs cant even play their own game and link lore from previous expansions, like why Kelthuzad phylacteria wasnt destroyed and he shouldnt be in Shadowlands, or the complete lore butchery that Wrathion received after MoP.

  11. #11
    "Every item of clothing I own is garbage because one of my shoestrings broke."

    - the OP.
    Still calling them out, one infraction at a time.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Josyel View Post
    I cant agree more. Shadowlands is a lore rape like WoD was. MoP started as a joke but kind of got better along. Its a shame devs cant even play their own game and link lore from previous expansions, like why Kelthuzad phylacteria wasnt destroyed and he shouldnt be in Shadowlands, or the complete lore butchery that Wrathion received after MoP.
    I wish I could remember what the exact name is, but there's a logical fallacy involving making an argument that cannot be discussed or disproved and using it as evidence. Then we'd get less of them arm sweeping "just look and you'll see how bad it is" posters.

    As for Kel'thuzad, we have no idea how he got to the Shadowlands. It might be possible for powerful undead to go there of their own free will.

    As for Wrathion, see the above. Why even bother posting if you're going to be so vague there can be no discussion of your "points?"
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    He's controlling the Margrave of the House of Rituals and sending weapons and reinforcements to help Sire in Revendreth. It's unknown if he's actually affiliated with the Jailer. We eventually expel him from Maldraxxus and free Margrave Sin'dane from his control but he's still out there.
    That's not what I asked. He's been a 1-dimensional cartoon since at least Wrath, and arguably since Vanilla. Shadowlands was never likely to change that. They literally gave him Doctor Evil's cat from Austin Powers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    Mexico is already part of the USA so is Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Shandalar View Post
    Shadow deserves nothing, the same as Fire Mages.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Josyel View Post
    Its a shame devs cant even play their own game and link lore from previous expansions.

    You either started playing World of Warcraft in 'Legion' or you wrote this with the intention of being purposely obtuse.

    like why Kelthuzad phylacteria wasnt destroyed and he shouldnt be in Shadowlands

    So you know how beings that are not technically dead are showing up in the Shadowlands? Like... the player characters? The lore characters like Jaina, Thrall, Bolvar, Taelia... all of them? BUT KEL'THUZAD IS STILL ACTIVE AND IN THE SHADOWLANDS... NO NO NO... LORE BUTCHERY.


    It's like you are going out of your way to not pay attention, weird.


    or the complete lore butchery that Wrathion received after MoP.

    Would you like to describe how his lore was butchered? Instead of making blanket statements with nothing to support the claim?

    Discuss the very little character development he received from Cata to MoP, apart from "Burning Legion bad, must stand together to win and save Azeroth" to wanting to stop N'Zoth in 'BFA'... who, if you remember from the LORE CONNECTING FROM THE PAST STORY, corrupted the Black Dragonflight and Deathwing, technical-grandfather of Wrathion, in order to save Azeroth?


    Or do you mean "butchery" as you just don't like Wrathion's personality and it somehow was such a drastic change from his non-existent personality of Cata and MoP?
    Last edited by KOUNTERPARTS; 2021-02-28 at 05:52 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    That's not what I asked. He's been a 1-dimensional cartoon since at least Wrath, and arguably since Vanilla. Shadowlands was never likely to change that. They literally gave him Doctor Evil's cat from Austin Powers.
    Ah, I see. You're one of those "boil the character down to its lowest common denominator and memes and pass that off as all there is to the character" types. As for the cat, Blizzard has never taken itself seriously. They love making fun of themselves. You need to separate the joke lore from the serious lore.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    Why this insipid adherence to Marvel-esque quip-happy storytelling? I feel like the writing team would love to just write all of WoW in the style of the Traveler series of children's books.
    You answered your own question, WoW these days is Avengers with faction leaders as the superheroes and player character as their sidekick. And the first reply to your post is a great example of clowns this stuff caters to.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarba View Post
    Story was garbage since BC. Wich was actually their high point of garbage.
    Vanilla was ok because they made small ones.
    TBC had no story.
    Vanilla didn't have a plot, but it had lot's of tiny stories, so at least there was that. Story of TBC was - "look, fans like this dude, let's kill him for a reason - he big, he bad" so any story, even if you don't like it, is better than that.

  18. #18
    Utter garbage is putting it lightly

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    So... Why? Why can't we get more grounded, layered and mature stories in WoW these days?
    We're talking about the same Blizzard that loves poop digging quests in WoW, Johhny Awesome, Kingslayer Orcus, Budd, Harrison Jones, etc, right? They even joke about their own shitty game being shitty as they can't even take themselves seriously.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    TBC had no story.
    Vanilla didn't have a plot, but it had lot's of tiny stories, so at least there was that. Story of TBC was - "look, fans like this dude, let's kill him for a reason - he big, he bad" so any story, even if you don't like it, is better than that.
    Vanilla didn't have well known villains so TBC brought us Illidan as a raid boss, that was a change.

    They later realized they didn't have a proper story as to why we'd kill off Illidan and thus had to redeem him in Legion. Back in TBC all that mattered was that we fought a known character as raid boss and got epic loot.

  20. #20
    While I don't think characters like Kel'Thuzad have gotten it as bad as the Jailer and Sylvanas, I do think that the lacks characterisation which is probably more due to frontloading gameplay aspects. In the game he just comes over as a villain with a pretty straightforward goal, and while he does keep most of his charisma from how we know him he is mostly brought back by being just another generic villain for us to kill. A few minor things that bother me for example, is that Kel'Thuzad doesn't even notice the players who orginally killed him at least twice. And we don't know why he decided to ally himself with the Jailer (maybe we don't know his true motives yet), and that he is apparently fine with working alongside Sylvanas. We also have Mograine who is supposedly to be super pissed at him for everything that happened in Lordaeron, yet its Kael'thas he taunts with despite not meeting each other before. And we have no mention of Arthas who even told Kel'Thuzad that he was more of a friend rather than just a servant. A proper sendoff would be that he betrays the Jailor and somehow gets Arthas free while he sacrifices himself, giving him at least some chaarcter development rather than just being another raid boss that just dies and we get to loot for epics.

    I'm also not huge on how they write most of the other legacy characters, but the story isn't over so perhaps we might see something that we don't expect.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •