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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by rowaasr13 View Post
    There are Earthen in both War of the Ancients and in present time.
    Jumbling in Earthen and Dwarves together only weakens your "DWARF archaeology site!!1!" "point". Because by doing so you admit (without actually realizing it in this case, obviously) that DWARF archaeology sites may be there because of their Titanforged heritage and not because actual Dwarves lived there.


    Quote Originally Posted by rowaasr13 View Post
    It isn't really up to the Horde to discuss need to GTFO because of "driving somebody out from their ancestral lands". But I digress, I repeat initial question: where anywhere in game or official lore materials dwarves are known for "genociding" or being "known to slaughter kids/teens" (copypasted direct quote)?
    And other than an inconvenience you your grand narrative here, why can't the Horde discuss that?


    Quote Originally Posted by rowaasr13 View Post
    There's also little tidbit in history of Mulgore: "For the first time in hundreds of years, the tauren had a land to call their own." It is pretty clearly means that until them none of the land was theirs, so their claim to "ancestral land" isn't much better that dwarven. If anything, those are "centaur ancestral lands".
    You're just cherry-picking here. Mulgore being ancestral Tauren land is also a little tidbit in history of Mulgore. That came from a much later source than the WoW Manual that you're bringing up here. So even if there was a conflict between the two (and there is not), that would only mean the 2015 book retconned the manual.
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  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    There's a very significant difference between the bargaining position of what was an empire that just a month before had one of the strongest naval powers and even in decline was able to push proxy wars throughout Cataclysm and Mists and that of the blood elves, which were a decaying state of virtual addicts reliant on Sylvanas to hold their border at all. This is notwithstanding that Sylvanas didn't give a flying shit how much autonomy she gave Talanji because she was a plant for a blue man from another dimension. She had to push them through over the edge to even get them into the Horde. Sylvanas herself in turn had to had any kind of recognition from a power not at the time hostile to the Alliance, plus (debatably) material support to not fall. If she hadn't joined the Horde, she'd be hostile to everyone and be bound to be wiped out. More than the simple narrative difference though and how weak the blood elf position is relative to their Alliance counterparts in the night elves and the dwarves is that the issue actually narratively exists. Rommath excoriates Bob for submitting to Sylvanas' demands to send troops, while later on Garrosh complains about having to keep them going, Bob ponders defection when the Horde no longer suits his interests and even Thrall made the very joining of the blood elves contingent on them proving they could carry their weight. Likewise the Forsaken's political dependance until Cataclysm where the tail begins to wag the dog.

    No such situation exists as regards the Alliance. The night elven and dwarf dynamics and the idea that the human king walked in and imposed an alliance command system on them after holding the king's daughter at sword point is never brought up. Whereas we know the reasoning for the contrived joining of the Forsaken to the Horde and the mindset of both the faction and the ones joining and we know much more about the blood elves' due to how heavily their narrative hinges upon this relationship, we still have no canonical explanation of the sequence of events that lead to the night elves joining the Alliance. The debate that @Raisei and @Eggroll had is, unlike the things just described, purely a fandom construct representing no positions that anyone in story has ever professed, not even a strawman. There is no equivalence between the Alliance and Horde in that regard at least not until BFA and the addition of the Highmountain and Nightborne who occupy similarly dubious ground but still stand above the Night Elf-Stormwind association by virtue of actually having an on-screen sequence of events leading to their joining rather than having their assimilation take place entirely over a menu screen.
    Blizzard handwaved in the BE's reasons for joining the Horde after deciding to include them for gameplay purposes; they were brought in to give the Horde a pretty race, and then they conjured excuses for it such as the Dwarves and NEs wanting to kill them for pretty much no stated reason whatsoever in a series of events that is never referenced again outside of forum natter. Servitude to the Horde is brought up in-story, but hardly enough if you ask me, the BEs are historically proud and should be livid to suddenly be the willing slaves to a bunch of savages in tents and indentured to dead humans led by a dead elf, but at worst it seems a mild annoyance even after they solved their immediate addiction problems (thanks to an Alliance leader, natch). As Mehrunes said, Thrall barely wanted them in the Horde in the first place and so I don't see why couldn't have negotiated something more substantial after proving their worth.

    You'll get absolutely no arguments from me that the Night Elves joining the Alliance makes no logical sense whatsoever. That they'd be more friendly to the Alliance than to the Horde would make some sense I suppose (even then, the non-NE race that have the most ties to are the Tauren), but outright joining it? Na, that was stupid, and just like the BEs and most Allied Races was done only because Blizzard needs to shoehorn playable races in team blue or red. As for the Dwarves, they've played second fiddle to the humans since WC2 so I guess that's just history repeating itself really, even dying for Garithos while he was being a racist prick towards them.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Blizzard handwaved in the BE's reasons for joining the Horde after deciding to include them for gameplay purposes; they were brought in to give the Horde a pretty race, and then they conjured excuses for it such as the Dwarves and NEs wanting to kill them for pretty much no stated reason whatsoever in a series of events that is never referenced again outside of forum natter. Servitude to the Horde is brought up in-story, but hardly enough if you ask me, the BEs are historically proud and should be livid to suddenly be the willing slaves to a bunch of savages in tents and indentured to dead humans led by a dead elf, but at worst it seems a mild annoyance even after they solved their immediate addiction problems (thanks to an Alliance leader, natch). As Mehrunes said, Thrall barely wanted them in the Horde in the first place and so I don't see why couldn't have negotiated something more substantial after proving their worth.
    Well, my point was more in the opposite direction. If Thrall was opposed to even making the Blood Elves his - borrowing your wording here - slaves, then I don't see why would he bother with them at all if they suddenly started negotiating a better deal. The Horde was in the stronger negotiating position here, yet Thrall barely let the Blood Elves in on conditions that were favorable to the Horde. Why would he be open to have them team up on less favorable conditions under those circumstances? Blood Elves on the other hand were at the time in shit so deep they were the literal embodiment of the phrase "beggars can't be choosers".
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  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    The Humans, as a side note, are culturally taking over the Alliance as some sort of Imperialistic government.
    Always has been.
    Funny how cultural imperialism and military interventionism are so much anchored into the US culture that they reproduce these process in their fictions. And yet the opposed faction is the most popular, riddle me this.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Blizzard handwaved in the BE's reasons for joining the Horde after deciding to include them for gameplay purposes; they were brought in to give the Horde a pretty race, and then they conjured excuses for it such as the Dwarves and NEs wanting to kill them for pretty much no stated reason whatsoever in a series of events that is never referenced again outside of forum natter. Servitude to the Horde is brought up in-story, but hardly enough if you ask me, the BEs are historically proud and should be livid to suddenly be the willing slaves to a bunch of savages in tents and indentured to dead humans led by a dead elf, but at worst it seems a mild annoyance even after they solved their immediate addiction problems (thanks to an Alliance leader, natch). As Mehrunes said, Thrall barely wanted them in the Horde in the first place and so I don't see why couldn't have negotiated something more substantial after proving their worth.
    I'm not going to sit here and tell you that the Blood Elves being in the Horde wasn't chiefly a gameplay choice. Rather that their incongruity with the Horde was a major plot point and that the contrived dwarf thing is about as bad as it gets. The reason the blood elves gelling with the Alliance back then wouldn't work, beyond their salt over Garithos that belf posters are still going about is that at the time the Alliance, true to the focus of this thread actually had discernable values and things like being magic junkies, relying on demon magic to even sustain their society and keeping what's basically an angel locked up in their basement were very major points of issue that the Horde didn't have. The blood elves were dependant on the Horde, not the other way - to even call them a junior partner is a bit charitable, what they were were hangers on that Sylvanas has to drag over the finish line, from sustaining the Ghostlands, to lobbying Thrall so much he gets tired of her bitching about it. Immediately after an Alliance leader gifts them back the Sunwell Sylvanas shows up to tell them to actually contribute and Rommath and Aethas are both livid about it to Bob, later on Garrosh mentions how the orcs have to keep them going. The blood elves are not in a position to renegotiate or reconsider their place until Mists, where their whole story is based around Bob (and the writers) realizing they and the faction have nothing in common besides being red now that they've culturally reverted to high elves and Garrosh is actually making them pay their keep and trying to defect. This is a significant focus on the blood elf story that the writers were aware of and bring up again and again.

    Besides, as @Mehrunes said - them saying those words doesn't mean shit if they don't intend to follow them and the expectations they set to the orcs not being what they actually intended is also acknowledged by the narrative. The elves joined an alliance of convenience to let them secure their lands enough to bail to Outland, only to realize their prince is a drug addict in league with Satan, enter a civil war and have the Sunwell restored by a separate power, then have all the debts they incurred catch up to them with first Sylvanas, then Garrosh telling them it's time to pay up. It's a coherent narrative that only fails when after Mists the game decides that the blood elves actually totally fit with the Horde and deeply care about the Warchief and honor despite being fairweather friends that tried to bail.

    You'll get absolutely no arguments from me that the Night Elves joining the Alliance makes no logical sense whatsoever. That they'd be more friendly to the Alliance than to the Horde would make some sense I suppose (even then, the non-NE race that have the most ties to are the Tauren), but outright joining it? Na, that was stupid, and just like the BEs and most Allied Races was done only because Blizzard needs to shoehorn playable races in team blue or red. As for the Dwarves, they've played second fiddle to the humans since WC2 so I guess that's just history repeating itself really, even dying for Garithos while he was being a racist prick towards them.
    I don't mind Khaz Modan being allied with Stormwind, that's basic continuity. It's that in Vanilla Khaz Modan is more of a senior partner with Magni being a much more powerful ruler than what's up in Stormwind, but after he goes and Varian implements the council of three hammers by holding Moira at sword point the story does nothing with this. Or indeed with dwarves in general. If I got a shot at the writer's room, bringing in dwarf dominance over the Alliance would be my first order of business. But like with other IPs, Dragon Age being one of the other very galling offenders, Blizzard doesn't care about dwarves. Maybe it's because they're short and not sexy.

    The Night Elf thing I feel bad even repeating given how dead that horse is. It goes well beyond sympathies or which faction fit more - at the end of WC3 the Night Elves have met 0 people from Stormwind. Not a fucking one. They are more powerful than the entire Kalimdor Horde combined, they don't need allies especially not ones from a continent away who, when push does come to shove, can't actually help due to reasons of basic logistics. Incidentally and a bit off-topic, but to answer a previous sentiment the night elf situation makes magnitudes more sense than the WC3 rendition where they're cheery buddies. These are the descendants of the same people who refused to stop arcane use even when it brought up the Legion, and not only did the Legion return through a summoner raised by their pool of arcane power, but are now using fel magic. Hostility and surveillance is rational and in-character.
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  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Well, my point was more in the opposite direction. If Thrall was opposed to even making the Blood Elves his - borrowing your wording here - slaves, then I don't see why would he bother with them at all if they suddenly started negotiating a better deal. The Horde was in the stronger negotiating position here, yet Thrall barely let the Blood Elves in on conditions that were favorable to the Horde. Why would he be open to have them team up on less favorable conditions under those circumstances? Blood Elves on the other hand were at the time in shit so deep they were the literal embodiment of the phrase "beggars can't be choosers".
    I got that it wasn't what you meant, but I think it can interpreted both ways- if Thrall doesn't want them in, they could at least try to negotiate something else than integration. The BEs need a save border, Horde needs, I dunno, magical expertise and information on Outland, deal's a deal, I'm only using an example but it seems the entire thing escalated to making themselves subservient to the Horde, they were in dire straits but it still seems fast and, as I said, was driven by gameplay more than anything else. Doesn't help that most of the negotiations happen offscreen and all the player does is deliver letters, while we have a much fuller picture in the case of the Zandalari.

    Plus, I dunno why slaves is put in quotation- if you take the Blood Oath literally, you're literally the Warchief's slave, he can do with you as he wishes and any hint of disobedience can legally mean death. That people like Sylvanas got away with it due to Thrall mostly not giving a shit/being wily/the story allowing it like in the case of Gilneas doesn't negate such a thing.
    Last edited by Jastall; 2021-03-06 at 08:54 PM.
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  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    I got that it wasn't what you meant, but I think it can interpreted both ways- if Thrall doesn't want them in, they could at least try to negotiate something else than integration. The BEs need a save border, Horde needs, I dunno, magical expertise and information on Outland, deal's a deal, I'm only using an example but it seems the entire thing escalated to making themselves subservient to the Horde, they were in dire straits but it still seems fast and, as I said, was driven by gameplay more than anything else. Doesn't help that most of the negotiations happen offscreen and all the player does is deliver letters, while we have a much fuller picture in the case of the Zandalari.

    Plus, I dunno why slaves is put in quotation- if you take the Blood Oath literally, you're literally the Warchief's slave, he can do with you as you wish and any hint of disobedience can legally mean death. That people like Sylvanas got away with it due to Thrall mostly not giving a shit/being wily/the story allowing it like in the case of Gilneas doesn't negate such a thing.
    What's odd is that, outside of recruiting the taunka, the Blood Oath is never again utilized or even mentioned. Every people to become members of the Horde are inducted with a few words and a nod from the Warchief (or council member, as with the vulpera).

    I understand its absence does not mean it has become non-canon, but you'd think with all the attention put on allied races we'd have had someone speak the words again.

  8. #248
    Pit Lord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rowaasr13 View Post
    Does name "Bael'dun" sounds "taurenly ancestral" to you?.
    Bael'dun became Bael'dun after the Dwarves drove out the Stonespire tribe and slaughtered them, and desecrated their ancestral lands.

    Quel'thalas doesn't sound Amani-ish but that doesn't change the fact that it was once Amani holy lands
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

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  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    What's odd is that, outside of recruiting the taunka, the Blood Oath is never again utilized or even mentioned. Every people to become members of the Horde are inducted with a few words and a nod from the Warchief (or council member, as with the vulpera).

    I understand its absence does not mean it has become non-canon, but you'd think with all the attention put on allied races we'd have had someone speak the words again.
    Before the Vulpera chain, I presumed that this was because the Allied Races weren't specifically joining each faction, but instead just acting as allies. That is, an Allied Race would be there to help out, but wouldn't have voting rights and really wouldn't be forced to do anything. Hence why they wouldn't need a Blood Oath. Though as you said, we haven't used it outside of the Taunka quest anywhere...the Blood Elves & Goblins never to my knowledge had to take that oath.

    Given that the Horde no longer has a Warchief, one has to assume the Blood Oath is gone for good. I'd love to see Blizz replace it with a new oath, one that accurately reflects the council setup and talks about what to do in peacetime as well as wartime.

  10. #250
    Pit Lord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    -snip-
    even if you remove Garithos out of the picture

    even if you decide whether Alliance of Lordaeron is the same as the Grand Alliance or not

    even if you remove the Night Elf saboteurs out of the picture

    the fact still remains that the Alliance never helped the Blood Elves from the Scourge for 6 years. They abandoned them. The only ones to actually help them from the Scourge were the Forsaken, and the Horde.

    Imagine being in some war torn country with extremely scare food and water and then there's zombies and then there's terrorists and then your people have extremely low morale and are getting relapses and/or confusion, and then when you finally recover after on your own after too much effort and sacrifice and extremely disgusting yet necessary and pragmatic solutions, you see the rest of the world actually thriving and doing good and they never helped you. I'd be definitely mad at them too
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

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  11. #251
    I think Blizzard couldn't possibly make the Alliance more OP if they even tried.

    They have two galactic races. One that came from a space ship. Another being the most popular model of Elves now has knowledge to the abyss of the cosmos. (Void) The Golden boy of the franchise. (Most important trump) Another character that is the only remaining male character that is allowed to show some type of aggression. Jaina/Elsa Disney rip off. Tyrande going rambo. Magni having attuned him to the titan world-soul of Azeroth itself and spent a lot of time in BFA. Humans being more powerful mages than the originators of magic.

    While the Horde is in self loathing and pity. Dealing with constant inner strife among themselves. The only alien race that they have are capable of making mudhuts.

    Why do people prefer the Horde? Maybe underdog complex? I am not entirely sure. I just don't understand what more the posters on here could possibly want for Alliance.. my suggestion to make them more popular is to give us new more relatable female characters and Anduin to have more interesting love interests.

    Gameplay wise.. I thought Alliance had the better racials, but I am aware of the big shift happened with the playerbase. So not entirely sure if the racials are even still a thing over there.

    Disclaimer: No Gnomes were mentioned in this post. As Blizzard gave them Mechagon last expansion and it is a well known fact no one enjoys them.
    Last edited by Kixxenn; 2021-03-06 at 05:21 AM.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Kixxenn View Post
    Jaina/Elsa Disney rip off.
    You do realize that Jaina existed like a decade before that Disney movie? If anything Elsa is a rip off of Jaina.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kixxenn View Post
    Why do people prefer the Horde? Maybe underdog complex? I am not entirely sure. I just don't understand what more the posters on here could possibly want for Alliance.. my suggestion to make them more popular is to give us new more relatable female characters and Anduin to have more interesting love interests.
    Most people pick Horde for gameplay reasons. Racials and alegedly a better PvE community. Another big group picked it for Belfs in the past.

    How many relatable females do we need? Jaina, Alleria, Calia (factually Alliance), Vareesa and Valeera (ditto), Tyrande, Shandris, Moira, Taelia and I am sure I forgot one or two...

    As for Anduin's love life. I agree from a practical standpoint. I don't care who he is in love with but we need heirs. Urgently. Might even be too late already. Pretty sure Taelia was introduced to be our new queen, but they sure take their time with it. Even Thalryssa and Lor'themar got their love story already.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudmaker View Post
    It’s sad that personality represented by Anduin is considered weak. Why dwarves would leave Alliance for that reason? Ironforge is like the best weapon supply. Plus we have Genn and Turalyon.
    He is literally engaging in nothing but appeasement politics and rather supports a war criminal of multiple genocides who openly admits to have slaughtered children and yet still escaped any form of justice or punishment than his military allies, who are by nature of military alliances actually entitled to his full support, who just suffered a genocide orchestrated by said war criminal in their effort to reclaim their lands. He is not only weak, he is immoral. His first action after capturing Saurfang should have been to allow both the Draenei and the Night Elves to put him on war crime trials. Also isn't he also kind of a misogynist who constantly paints the justified anger of woman who suffered war crimes as them going mad, while fully empathizing with a man who literally genocided and killed children for the honor of doing it?

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Not only do earthen not equal dwarfs as not all of them turned into actual dwarfs but there are no earthen on kalimdor prior to them going there in BFA, Tons of other Titan creations but not a single earthen.
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Goggeroc. Mercilessly slain by "peaceful" Tauren scum. And don't even try "but one quest" trick. It never stopped people from inventing "evil genociding dwarves".

    actually it implies they had lands and then lost/were driven off of them and weren’t able to resettle until Mulgore. Much like actual native Americans which they are obviously styled after.
    It says HUNDREDS OF FUCKING YEARS. How long must it pass? Or, as I said - any place hordie ever put foot on is theirs permanently?
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  15. #255
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rowaasr13 View Post
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Goggeroc. Mercilessly slain by "peaceful" Tauren scum. And don't even try "but one quest" trick. It never stopped people from inventing "evil genociding dwarves".
    I stand corrected there is a single earthen.

    It says HUNDREDS OF FUCKING YEARS. How long must it pass? Or, as I said - any place hordie ever put foot on is theirs permanently?
    It hasn't been hundreds of years since they retook there land though. they were actively living there before the dwarfs showed in before classic. like real natives American's they were driven off of there land but unlike them they managed to take it back only for another outside force to take it again and wipe them out.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    What's odd is that, outside of recruiting the taunka, the Blood Oath is never again utilized or even mentioned. Every people to become members of the Horde are inducted with a few words and a nod from the Warchief (or council member, as with the vulpera).

    I understand its absence does not mean it has become non-canon, but you'd think with all the attention put on allied races we'd have had someone speak the words again.
    At least having the words said to Sylvanas when she took over and required her subjects to renew their oaths of loyalty would have made sense. Instead it's a fairly generic pledge and the Blood Oath remains something mentioned in literally one quest as far as I can remember.

    @Ardenaso But none of the BE leadership is ever shown to be anti-Alliance to a degree significant enough that it impacts their character. Rommath isn't a fan of them but isn't very militant about it either, he's far more concerned with direct threats to Quel'thalas. Halduron doesn't matter, and Lor'themar was ready to go back to them after Garrosh proved to be, well, Garrosh. Their decision to join the Horde was based on what was happening to them, not on opposing the Alliance, and of all the Horde races only the Tauren have historically been more hesitant to join war efforts against team blue, and even then not every Tauren as they're not all Baine clones.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  17. #257
    It was really forced to see Anduin being named High King, basically making him a Blue Warchief, without him having any real strategic and tactical skills or war experience, at least his father had the charisma, warrior skills and tactical ones to justify having a military leader role though it should have been made obvious that the other leaders were still his equals politically.

    Turalyon being instead named the Supreme Commander of Alliance forces just like he was at the end of and after the Second War, and as such being the oen leading Alliance armies and making the strategies would have made much more sense, though given that the conflict was happening on two continents, maybe there should have been a commander in chief in each continent to avoid strategic, administrative and logistical problems since it would have been extremely difficult to handle things and make the right decisions in two very different fronts.

    In this case then Turalyon would have been the Supreme Commander in the Eastern Kingdoms while a Night Elf leader, Shandris Feathermoon or Jarod Shadowsong would have been the commander of Alliance forces in Kalimdor.

  18. #258
    I love these points. WoW has a rather naively modern setting, a relic from the pre-Game of Thrones era. These aren't medieval characters but rather 21st century people wearing fancy armour and fighting with swords.

    That's not bad, it made the setting more familiar and accessible. But it does rob the game of lots of interesting plot points that would only make sense if the politics were more bitter and vicious.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    So I guess even both factions get screwed logically wise and this whole ordeal is just a fallacy of writer's just writing whatever the fuck they want instead of being consistent and truthful to the source, but who gives a SHIT when you can just write that everything's happy with eachother in this perfect world of Azeroth and you can just go back and retcon and change things to your liking because you're too uncreative to come up with anything new so your only solution is to change things that happened before your time because you think you somehow come off as creative in doing so but instead you just disrespect the whole franchise with your gibberish and bias towards your favorite characters.
    Yeah I agree. The faction lore makes zero sense from a real racial sense. The fact that the Alliance is... well.. AN ALLIANCE seems to have been completely forgotten. Remember when the horde and the alliance had an alliance during the Broken Shore and then that alliance quickly disbanded when Genn thought the horde betrayed them? Yeah crazy, right? Remember how like an expansion later Tyrande thought that the rest of the alliance left her people to suffer and she went to do her own thing BUT SHE DIDN'T BACK HER PEOPLE OUT OF THE ALLIANCE FOR SOME REASON???????

    Honestly makes zero sense. It's not even like the Night Elf player character's would be shunned for it either. If the Night Elves left the Alliance, I'm sure Anduin would keep an open invitation to try to get them back.

  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    @Ardenaso But none of the BE leadership is ever shown to be anti-Alliance to a degree significant enough that it impacts their character. Rommath isn't a fan of them but isn't very militant about it either, he's far more concerned with direct threats to Quel'thalas. Halduron doesn't matter, and Lor'themar was ready to go back to them after Garrosh proved to be, well, Garrosh. Their decision to join the Horde was based on what was happening to them, not on opposing the Alliance, and of all the Horde races only the Tauren have historically been more hesitant to join war efforts against team blue, and even then not every Tauren as they're not all Baine clones.
    When Rommath said he never "tires slaying Alliance" even if they're Alliance High Elves, that's when I think he does hate the Alliance; Liadrin also hates Vereesa because she "chose the humans instead of the blood elven kin over and over again"; and yes their decision to join the Horde was based on the help they need against the Scourge and need for alimony, which the Alliance denied them. Also, Lor'themar isn't the whole Blood Elves, he will try any further to hand over the Blood Elves to the Alliance and Rommath will be having none of this shit

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    Yeah I agree. The faction lore makes zero sense from a real racial sense. The fact that the Alliance is... well.. AN ALLIANCE seems to have been completely forgotten. Remember when the horde and the alliance had an alliance during the Broken Shore and then that alliance quickly disbanded when Genn thought the horde betrayed them? Yeah crazy, right? Remember how like an expansion later Tyrande thought that the rest of the alliance left her people to suffer and she went to do her own thing BUT SHE DIDN'T BACK HER PEOPLE OUT OF THE ALLIANCE FOR SOME REASON???????

    Honestly makes zero sense. It's not even like the Night Elf player character's would be shunned for it either. If the Night Elves left the Alliance, I'm sure Anduin would keep an open invitation to try to get them back.
    Shandris will not allow that, she's the biggest human cheerleader among the Night Elves
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged custom models that intends to fill the gaps in the Reforged campaign

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