Page 8 of 13 FirstFirst ...
6
7
8
9
10
... LastLast
  1. #141
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Somewhere where canon still exists
    Posts
    8,598
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    What kind of infighting was there? Jaina looking sad into the camera for 2 cinematics?
    We could explain, but your personal bias will just ignore it all so it really isn't worth the effort
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  2. #142
    I think to this issue "get over it" is the standard reply.

    If Blizz wants him to be high-king, that is what he is and any excuse can be made up. None of the Alliance faction really look opposed to it. Nelves might ignore him, but that's it.

    The logical reason from what i see is that the human army is just the lion share of the alliance military and the other races basically "help out".

    Besides, isn't Turalyon in charge atm? Wish granted.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    I never claim it doesn't. So do you have any valid reason to be wasting me with your nonsense beside going "LOL ... this guy think Kings lead armies!
    Buddy you replied to my initial post saying that the title of "King" for an exclusively military position was stupid.

    If you don't want to continue the discussion stop replying lol I don't care

    I say discussion like it hasn't just been me going "Why do we call it football when the players pick the pigskin up and run with it, that's kinda dumb"

    And you screeching "WELL THEY SOMETIMES KICK THE BALL"
    Last edited by LarryFromHumanResources; 2021-03-02 at 02:42 AM.
    Corporate wishes everyone a happy new year

  4. #144
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away
    Posts
    4,299
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    Buddy you replied to my initial post saying that the title of "King" for an exclusiveoy military position was stupid.

    If you don't want to continue the discussion stop replying lol I don't care

    I say discussion like it hasn't just been me going "Why do we call football when the players pick the pigskin up and run with it, that's kinda dumb"

    And you screeching "WELL THEY SOMETIMES KICK THE BALL"
    Where did I say King is "exclusiveoy" a title in the military ... I never did. I said it is a military title in Kingdoms ... which it is. That isn't saying it is exclusively militaristic. In a world where you have a bunch of King lead armies working together and you want to put one person in charge of all of the armies ... a High King or King above Kings, etc ... those terms make sense for the title, because you are saying someone has more control than other Kings.

    Also, no, in your example, I would say it is a hold over from the fact it is a greatly modified descendant of the sport most of the world calls football. You know a factual argument, like the one I made.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2021-03-02 at 02:48 AM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Where did I say King is "exclusiveoy" a title in the military ... I never did. I said it is a military title in Kingdoms ... which it is. That isn't saying it is exclusively militaristic.

    Also, no, in your example, I would say it is a hold over from the fact it is a greatly modified descendant of the sport most of the world calls football. You know a factual argument, like the one I made.
    Im glad you highlighted a typo despite very clearly knowing what its supposed to say, incredible form.

    I have never claimed that you exclusively think that kings lead armies we BOTH know that that isn't true. This has never been relevant or a point of contention.

    Buddy you replied to my initial post saying that the title of "King" for an exclusiveoy military position was stupid.
    ^is not me saying you said anything, it's simply me reminding you of my original post's content

    However you're making the claim that it somehow makes sense to have an EXCLUSIVELY MILITARY TITLE be named after something that historically has been MORE THAN A MILITARY TITLE simply because the title PARTIALLY has had connotations of leading armies.

    I think it's stupid, they could've called it "general" a title exclusively used in military matters, you do not, you think it's fine. Im not sure how this became a massive deal but here we are and what a journey it's been.
    Last edited by LarryFromHumanResources; 2021-03-02 at 03:21 AM.
    Corporate wishes everyone a happy new year

  6. #146
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away
    Posts
    4,299
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    I think it's stupid, they could've called it "High general", you do not. Im not sure how this became a massive deal but here we are.
    You are right, they could have called it High General or Supreme Commander or LarryFromHumanResources's Goat's Milkmaid.

    You are also ignoring that High King is literally a real world title. Though, High King in WoW is exclusively militaristic in nature and in the real world it filled more variety of roles. You have every right to think "It's stupid" that's your opinion. But the argument "It doesn't make sense" is factually wrong.

    Also, FYI ... General isn't exclusively militaristic either. It's main use and most common use in militaristic, but some religious orders have the title General too.

    Im glad you highlighted a typo despite very clearly knowing what its supposed to say, incredible form
    You literally edited your post and chose not to correct the typo. I wouldn't have called it out if you hadn't done that. You edited it without correcting the typo.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2021-03-02 at 03:04 AM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    You are right, they could have called it High General or Supreme Commander or LarryFromHumanResources's Goat's Milkmaid.

    You are also ignoring that High King is literally a real world title. Though, High King in WoW is exclusively militaristic in nature and in the real world it filled more variety of roles. You have every right to think "It's stupid" that's your opinion. But the argument "It doesn't make sense" is factually wrong.
    I mean listen, if you think that naming an exclusively military position after a title that historically, in the real world "filled more variety of roles" and therefore has connotations beyond that somehow makes sense then you do you buddy.

    Also, FYI ... General isn't exclusively militaristic either. It's main use and most common use in militaristic, but some religious orders have the title General too.
    The Camrbidge Dictionary cites "general" as meaning a high ranking officer in a military setting, Merriam Webster does the same.

    I literally do not care about niche uses. In the OVERWHELMING amount of cases the title of general means a high ranking officer

    The KKK call people "wizards" but you don't see that taking prevalence over it's more traditional meaning in ANY discourse.

    You literally edited your post and chose not to correct the typo. I wouldn't have called it out if you hadn't done that. You edited it without correcting the typo.
    Yes, that's right I CHOSE not to ammend the typo.

    Are you perchance from the planet Mars? Or are you a literal brick wall?
    Last edited by LarryFromHumanResources; 2021-03-02 at 03:29 AM.
    Corporate wishes everyone a happy new year

  8. #148
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
    Posts
    18,948
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    I like to think Mekkatorque remains king because no other gnome wants the job. Dealing with the slow reclamation of Gnomeregan while attending military councils with the other Alliance races sounds positively dreadful and would probably get in the way of good, honest research and inventing.
    Well, the main thing is, Gelbin has, to my knowledge, the widest breadth of inventions that have meaningfully advanced gnomish society as well as the advancement of technology in general, which are two of the major criteria in the gnomes' meritocracy. He's credited with inventing the mechanostriders, which revolutionized several industries, the Deeprun Tram, which opened up unprecedented access between Ironforge and Stormwind City, and--if I recall--the mechsuits and gunships used by the Alliance. It's hard to compete with that Tony Stark level of ingenuity and drive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    I'm sorry, I thought this was an ALLIANCE, not happy faction of friendship where everyone is golly good friends with eachother and leaders just throw away their entire authority on their kingdoms aswell as their self respect because they're friends with an 18 year old boy

    Absolutely ridiculous.
    I mean, yeah. In the real world, world leaders meet up and form interpersonal relationships all the time, man, have you paid no attention to world politics in the last 2,000 years?

    I'm sorry you don't understand how interpersonal relationships form an integral core of diplomacy, but I suppose the beginning of March 2021 is as good a time as ever to learn this.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    I'm sorry, I thought this was an ALLIANCE, not happy faction of friendship where everyone is golly good friends with eachother and leaders just throw away their entire authority on their kingdoms aswell as their self respect because they're friends with an 18 year old boy

    Absolutely ridiculous.
    Again, you obviously do not even understand how the Alliance functions. None of the racial leaders have discarded the authority over their kingdoms. Except for those that do not have a kingdom anymore because of the Horde of course.

    The High King is not the same as a Warchief, that forces you into slavery and then decides every aspect of your races future, he is just the military commander for the simple sake of having a functioning chain of command. Every military person can tell you how important that is.

    But apart from the the racial leaders are still completely sovereign rulers of their domains. Anduin can't remove them at will, he can't decide over their heads, he can't even stop them from refusing his orders because it is an ALLIANCE. They are not his subjects, they joined together by free will to defend against the regular atrocities of the Horde.

    As an example while technically Anduin would command the Night Elven military, Tyrande decided to do her own thing and leave the confines of the Alliance for her revenge, but since her participation is voluntary, Anduin can't just bypass her will and command the Nelfs to not follow her. Genn then said that he would come with them and help Tyrande to pay back what the Nelfs have done for the Gilneans. He is not asking permission.

    Obviously such a bond ONLY works if there are good relations between the races and despite what you seem to think, this one works because the races have strong ties among each other.

    So no, no one in the Alliance has discarded or thrown away their self-respect or authority, that is what they did in the Horde, where the Blood Oath literally made you nothing but a brainless weapon for the Warchief to wield and a ten-thousand year old culture like the Nightborn signed over their future to an Undead High Elf with a reputation for mass murder.

    You probably should wonder why the Nightborn did not revolt against that decision instead of making up reasons why the humans would revolt against Anduin.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    Obviously such a bond ONLY works if there are good relations between the races
    OR because writers are pro-Wrynn shills.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    OR because writers are pro-Wrynn shills.
    OR because haters just want to see the Alliance fall and thus it's success makes them invent and believe ridiculous notions like this.

    You might have missed it, but the pro-Wrynn shills have just writen a story where the Warchief of the Horde abuses the youngest and only member of the Wrynn family to commit brutal crimes for her. Crimes that will haunt Anduin for the rest of his life even if, and that is one big-ass "if", he is not forced to sacrifice his life in the end to redeem the Banshee.

  12. #152
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away
    Posts
    4,299
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    I mean listen, if you think that naming an exclusively military position after a title that historically, in the real world "filled more variety of roles" and therefore has connotations beyond that somehow makes sense then you do you buddy.
    Because it does. You seem to think "This title is used in many ways therefore using it in an exclusive way makes no sense." You argument of WHY it doesn't make sense literally doesn't make any sense. Just because a title covers many things does not mean in a fictional world, it cannot be used to be an exclusive thing.

    The Camrbidge Dictionary cites "general" as meaning a high ranking officer in a military setting, Merriam Webster does the same.

    I literally do not care about niche uses. In the OVERWHELMING amount of cases the title of general means a high ranking officer

    The KKK call people "wizards" but you don't see that taking prevalence over it's more traditional meaning in ANY discourse.
    Your argument was they should use an EXCLUSIVELY military title. General is NOT exclusively military. Therefore, per your argument, High General is NOT appropriate. If your argument is that they should use a title that is most associated with the military, I could then counter, the title King is most associated with leadership and as the position is a position of a leader of the joint military ... it fits.

    Seriously, if you cannot see at this point your argument has boiled down to "I don't like therefore it makes no sense" I don't know what else to tell you.

    Yes, that's right I CHOSE not to ammend the typo.

    Are you perchance from the planet Mars? Or are you a literal brick wall?
    At least I know the difference between "I don't like this" and "This doesn't make sense."
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    that was the Alliance of Lordaeron

    the Grand Alliance only had Stormwind and Theramore with some few Stromic and Lordaeron stragglers until the said Alliance Lordaeronians were wiped out by the Horde and Gilneas, Stromgarde, and Kul Tiras rejoined recently
    That alliance is what became the alliance we know. By introducig dwarves and elves. Like i wrote.

    Thats why it has a human king

  14. #154
    So the son of the previous king became the new king. Yeah, very weird indeed.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    I don't feel that way. We won all conflicts with the Horde and kept the moral high ground on top. No matter how depraved their methods get, we beat them every time in the end.
    We have much better characters, so much so that many Hordes feel the constant need to claim them for themselves (like Alleria and Valeera), while they fall over themselves crying about the characters they have (Baine).

    All in all it's pretty nice being Alliance. Would be even better if the Horde wouldn't be allowed to torch our cities every 2 years, but that is just what they are.
    What use is the moral high ground to the Alliance citizens when the leadership fails to protect them from genocide like Teldrassil?
    What use is the moral high ground when we keep losing territory, when Alliance citizens keep losing their home?
    Moral high ground is just a word. The Alliance did nothing but lose on all fronts, despite the devs saying otherwise.

    "Better characters" is debatable.
    Anduin used to be a cool character up until and including MoP.
    Alleria has been dumbed down to be Turalyons arm candy.
    Valeera is not Alliance.
    Tyrande has been villified because Anduin.
    Malfurion isn't even there anymore. Not even as leader of the Night Elves.
    Velen is absent, too.
    And I'm sick and tired of Jaina, tbh.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Because it does. You seem to think "This title is used in many ways therefore using it in an exclusive way makes no sense." You argument of WHY it doesn't make sense literally doesn't make any sense. Just because a title covers many things does not mean in a fictional world, it cannot be used to be an exclusive thing.
    I'm not saying Blizzard can't do something, it's their IP. However using the term king, which in the overwhelming majority of speech communities carries with it a multitude of different roles that very specifically don't involve leading armies, as opposed to a term like "general" which in the overwhelming majority of speech communities carries with it exclusively military connotations doesn't make sense. It needlessly complicates things.

    Your argument was they should use an EXCLUSIVELY military title. General is NOT exclusively military. Therefore, per your argument, High General is NOT appropriate. If your argument is that they should use a title that is most associated with the military, I could then counter, the title King is most associated with leadership and as the position is a position of a leader of the joint military ... it fits.

    Seriously, if you cannot see at this point your argument has boiled down to "I don't like therefore it makes no sense" I don't know what else to tell you.
    Fine-fine, I'll recontextualize; General might not exclusively be a military title yet in the majority of speech acts it is used as such, except in, niche religious cases, which, like I said, I don't care about. Merriam Webster and The Cambridge Dictionary both have "military officer" as its primary and most common meaning.

    In the overwhelming majority of speech communities "king" means more than simply a general, whereas in the overwhelming majority of speech communities "general" simply means a high ranking officer.

    Blizzard was given two choices, call the leader of the Alliance armies something that doesn't carry with it a multitude of other connotations in the vast majority of speech communities, or call the leader of the Alliance armies something that DOES carry with it a multitude of other connotations in the vast majority of speech communities.

    The choice to needlessley complicate things is what doesn't make sense. I'll grant you that "king" TECHNICALLY fits, we agreed on this, kings lead armies. However there are far more fitting titles for the position, and the decision not to dub it something more fitting, that carries less connotations that doesn't relate to the responsibility is what doesn't make sense.
    Last edited by LarryFromHumanResources; 2021-03-02 at 11:53 AM.
    Corporate wishes everyone a happy new year

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    Why? Because the fleet was too far away, that is why. There really is no mystery there. Anduin desperatedly tried to get people there, but couldn't. Sylvanas tricked them all and by the time the ruse was revealed it was too late.
    He did NOT desperateley try get people there. On the contrary.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    So the son of the previous king became the new king. Yeah, very weird indeed.
    High King isn't an inherited title.

  19. #159
    OP is entirely correct and there's a reason the Vanilla version of the Alliance is the most interesting, but there's a decent constituency in the Alliance that do want to play the Captain America faction of masochistically good guys who differ only in visuals and ultimately pay deference to a teenager. The ways to fix it are endless and as simple as having one (1) faction leader wake up and realize that they've been following orders from a kid who's had them agree to a white peace after genocide because his dad was equally inexplicably in charge, but without both writer and player interest there's no way it happens.

    We've played this game with the night elves, then the worgen, then the void elves and finally the Dark Iron and each time some spice is tried to be added to the faction it is immediately watered down. Compare WC2 Genn and Anduin's adoptive dad Genn, slavering Dark Iron and scheming Moira from Vanilla to Cata with Anduin adoptive mom Moira or any night elf appearance up until Tyrande's current stint. Everything eventually heads towards the lawful good event horizon. You can conceptualize any number of stories where a night elf breaks into Stormwind, discovers a forbidden dictionary and the definition of the word 'Alliance' and promptly refuses to further participate in ventures that do not confer their race any benefit for the sake of someone who's an embryo compared to them in experience and it's all for naught if it's not followed through on.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2021-03-02 at 12:31 PM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    Again, you obviously do not even understand how the Alliance functions. None of the racial leaders have discarded the authority over their kingdoms. Except for those that do not have a kingdom anymore because of the Horde of course.

    The High King is not the same as a Warchief, that forces you into slavery and then decides every aspect of your races future, he is just the military commander for the simple sake of having a functioning chain of command. Every military person can tell you how important that is.

    But apart from the the racial leaders are still completely sovereign rulers of their domains. Anduin can't remove them at will, he can't decide over their heads, he can't even stop them from refusing his orders because it is an ALLIANCE. They are not his subjects, they joined together by free will to defend against the regular atrocities of the Horde.

    As an example while technically Anduin would command the Night Elven military, Tyrande decided to do her own thing and leave the confines of the Alliance for her revenge, but since her participation is voluntary, Anduin can't just bypass her will and command the Nelfs to not follow her. Genn then said that he would come with them and help Tyrande to pay back what the Nelfs have done for the Gilneans. He is not asking permission.

    Obviously such a bond ONLY works if there are good relations between the races and despite what you seem to think, this one works because the races have strong ties among each other.

    So no, no one in the Alliance has discarded or thrown away their self-respect or authority, that is what they did in the Horde, where the Blood Oath literally made you nothing but a brainless weapon for the Warchief to wield and a ten-thousand year old culture like the Nightborn signed over their future to an Undead High Elf with a reputation for mass murder.

    You probably should wonder why the Nightborn did not revolt against that decision instead of making up reasons why the humans would revolt against Anduin.
    I love it. That whole wall of text to make the excuse of a military rank being given to an 18 year old boy because his father held the rank.

    I love it so much. So much mental gymnastics going on. To basically come to the conclusion that an 18 year old boy king is acting supreme commander of the alliance and that the other alliance leaders aren't bothered with this because Anduin is a friendly guy.

    Haha

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •