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  1. #161
    It's naive to assume that the game will ever provide an authentic representation of what an Alliance or Horde would actually be like.

    At this point what I would really like - as a former player who still loves the world - is a strong animated series that does a great job of telling the Warcraft story.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    What use is the moral high ground to the Alliance citizens when the leadership fails to protect them from genocide like Teldrassil?
    What use is the moral high ground when we keep losing territory, when Alliance citizens keep losing their home?
    Moral high ground is just a word. The Alliance did nothing but lose on all fronts, despite the devs saying otherwise.
    All true. But the simple counter is that even if we would lower ourself to the level of the Horde this would not stop. We will never be able to annihilate the Horde no matter what it does and they will never be able to wipe us out, because player factions can't be destroyed fully. The faction war will never come to a satisfying conclusion, hence why I find it such a pointless plot.
    I am just as pissed that the Horde got out of another genocide without any guilt and punishment, but it cheers me up to see how much they hate their own faction now because of Baine and Calia, while not understanding that their own lust for faction war and being the villain is exactly what "destroyed" the Horde.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    "Better characters" is debatable.
    Anduin used to be a cool character up until and including MoP.
    I like his development. He is growing into the role of King and he is confronted with very difficult choices. I also love how much willpower he has for an 18 year old kid. Early BFA Anduin was great in many scenes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    Alleria has been dumbed down to be Turalyons arm candy.
    Not my observation. But then, she is my racial leader so I might be biased.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    Valeera is not Alliance.
    True, though she is a lot more Alliance then Horde and I don't think she could or should be called neutral. I actually meant Vareesa Sanguinar though and mixed the two up.

    Vareesa isn't exactly Alliance either of course, but her loyalty belongs to Anduin and no one else, so she counts as an Alliance operative even if she isn't officially part of the faction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    Tyrande has been villified because Anduin.
    Not yet and I am pretty sure we will prevent that from happening. She is understandibly anti-peace, but she is not a villain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    Malfurion isn't even there anymore. Not even as leader of the Night Elves.
    Velen is absent, too.
    Malfurion we know was active on Darkshore, he is at the moment probably in charge of his people in Kalimdor since Tyrande hopped into the Maw. I have no doubt he will play a part later.

    Velen is an odd case, I agree. Maybe the writers just felt that after the prominent role he played in Legion he needed a break.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    And I'm sick and tired of Jaina, tbh.
    No, not at all. I will never get tired of seeing Jaina wipe the floor with enemies. Be it Hordes or Maw creatures. And seeing her almost turn Baine into frozen Hamburger with the line "Is he the bomb this time??!!" still is chilling on so many levels. Which is in good part also because of Laura doing exceptional voice acting with a big emphasis on the "acting".

  3. #163
    I just love how Raisei doesnt comprehend that people dont like monolithic lawful good grey blob that is the Wrynn alliance. Like, the very thought is utterly alien to him.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    All true. But the simple counter is that even if we would lower ourself to the level of the Horde this would not stop. We will never be able to annihilate the Horde no matter what it does and they will never be able to wipe us out, because player factions can't be destroyed fully. The faction war will never come to a satisfying conclusion, hence why I find it such a pointless plot.
    I am just as pissed that the Horde got out of another genocide without any guilt and punishment, but it cheers me up to see how much they hate their own faction now because of Baine and Calia, while not understanding that their own lust for faction war and being the villain is exactly what "destroyed" the Horde.
    What I forgot to mention: The Alliance not only failed to prevent the genocide on their people, lost considerable lands but also people like Calia, Derek, Sira Moonwarden, Delaryn Summermoon were lost to the Horde.

    And what did the "winning" Alliance actually achieve? And I don't mean revenge, I mean getting back territory for instance? The Alliance lost yet more territory or had it made uninhabitable by the Horde.

    And when it's not the Horde it's just Blizzard devs giving the night elves the middle finger like in Cata when they destroyed Darkshore and Auberdine or Stormwind Park. Or with the end of Legion having Cenarion Hold wiped out by Sargeras.

    Regarding Malfurion: active in Darkshore or not, the night elf faction isn't represented by a leader in the current iteration of the game just like any other race is. Just another oopsie by the devs.

  5. #165
    The Lightbringer Maljinwo's Avatar
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    A realistic portrayal of any faction would've drained their armies and resources years ago
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  6. #166
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    An 18 year old boy king is acting supreme commander of the alliance and that the other alliance leaders aren't bothered with this because Anduin is a friendly guy.

    Haha
    Well, that's the entire point of a textbook Purity Sue such as Teh Golden Boi. I never understood Andy fans and their commitment to such a boring, stereotypical character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    there's a decent constituency in the Alliance that do want to play the Captain America faction of masochistically good guys who differ only in visuals and ultimately pay deference to a teenager.
    Good sir, I must ask you for permission for using this as a sig. It's simply too good to let it pass
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    As for the "hone your skills" argument that some are tossing around, fuck that. Most people want to have fun. They're not logging onto WoW, the video game, as a self-improvement project. That's a ridiculous notion and goes right along with the idea that the game is "work." If it's not 'play' then you're doing it wrong. Sadly this is a concept that the devs seem to have lost sight of in their quest to keep anyone and everyone busy.

  7. #167
    Pit Lord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    What use is the moral high ground to the Alliance citizens when the leadership fails to protect them from genocide like Teldrassil?
    What use is the moral high ground when we keep losing territory, when Alliance citizens keep losing their home?
    Moral high ground is just a word. The Alliance did nothing but lose on all fronts, despite the devs saying otherwise.

    "Better characters" is debatable.
    Anduin used to be a cool character up until and including MoP.
    Alleria has been dumbed down to be Turalyons arm candy.
    Valeera is not Alliance.
    Tyrande has been villified because Anduin.
    Malfurion isn't even there anymore. Not even as leader of the Night Elves.
    Velen is absent, too.
    And I'm sick and tired of Jaina, tbh.
    don't forget Shandris being a human male fangirl; might as well get some skin whitening and pretend to be a High Elf
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged custom models that intends to fill the gaps in the Reforged campaign

  8. #168
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    people like Calia, Derek, Sira Moonwarden, Delaryn Summermoon were lost to the Horde.
    You don't know how lucky you are for having all those utter bores brought away from you.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    As for the "hone your skills" argument that some are tossing around, fuck that. Most people want to have fun. They're not logging onto WoW, the video game, as a self-improvement project. That's a ridiculous notion and goes right along with the idea that the game is "work." If it's not 'play' then you're doing it wrong. Sadly this is a concept that the devs seem to have lost sight of in their quest to keep anyone and everyone busy.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    I just love how Raisei doesnt comprehend that people dont like monolithic lawful good grey blob that is the Wrynn alliance. Like, the very thought is utterly alien to him.
    I love how you don't have the guts to actually mark me when talking about me.

    1) You are blatantly generalizing. You do not know what "people" like, because people have different opinions. I stated mine with reasons for them. You just claim that everyone agrees with YOUR opinion.

    I do in fact understand that it is a very popular opinion that everything has to be grimdark and at least a shade of grey. Add some body horror and over the top violence and you have the recipe why Game of Thrones (*yawn*) was so successful.

    I simply happen to not share this opinion and don't need all my media to follow this same model.

    2) I know you are actually a Horde player so your opinion is suspect at best.

    How does @Super Dickmann put it when I comment on Horde topics like Baine and Calia again? Something about actually wanting the worst to happen to the faction for my personal amusement. I expect something very similar is going on here.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    don't forget Shandris being a human male fangirl; might as well get some skin whitening and pretend to be a High Elf
    I know, right? What a disgrace. Night elves ladies were never into human males, unlike their high elf counterparts.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    You don't know how lucky you are for having all those utter bores brought away from you.
    Indeed I don't, because I don't see it that way.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    How does @Super Dickmann put it when I comment on Horde topics like Baine and Calia again? Something about actually wanting the worst to happen to the faction for my personal amusement. I expect something very similar is going on here.
    Sorry but you dont want the best for your faction. You want it in stasis. You want it unchanging. You are afraid of risks. Meanwhile you want Horde to be absolute garbage so that your boring mess can stand out better.

    I bet vanilla Alliance questing was completely painful to you.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    ...You guys realise Metzen stated High King meant Supreme Commander of the Alliance right?...
    I have yet to see proof of this assertion... best I can recall is Metzen said the position is like that of a Supreme Commander... meaning that there are differences but at that moment, for all intents and purposes, it was a safe comparison.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No fucking way. The worst idea since democracy.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    I have yet to see proof of this assertion... best I can recall is Metzen said the position is like that of a Supreme Commander... meaning that there are differences but at that moment, for all intents and purposes, it was a safe comparison.
    sigh...
    https://twitter.com/ChrisMetzen/stat...59705844957184
    he says it's literally the same.
    They just added "king" cause it would easily fool people.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    What I forgot to mention: The Alliance not only failed to prevent the genocide on their people, lost considerable lands but also people like Calia, Derek, Sira Moonwarden, Delaryn Summermoon were lost to the Horde.
    I don't see how it could have been prevented. The attack was as I said a few times, a well-planned and well-executed deception and caught the Alliance off-guard. You can blame Anduin for that if you like, but none of the other leaders with immensely more combat experience saw it coming either. Once the fleet was away to Silithus it was clear that it would need time to return to Darkshore and that was exactly what Sylvanas based her plan on. The War of Thorns was effectively lost at that moment.

    As for Teldrassil however. No one could have forseen it. Sylvanas either decided on the spot to do it, because of Delaryns taunts or she had the plan all along and shared it not even with Nathanos. We saved as many as we could but there was no way to see this coming and prepare for it. So I just don't see how you can blame anyone but the one who burned the tree down for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    And what did the "winning" Alliance actually achieve? And I don't mean revenge, I mean getting back territory for instance? The Alliance lost yet more territory or had it made uninhabitable by the Horde.
    It achieved nothing. The faction war was dead on arrival, because no side can ever win or loose. I mainly sustain myself with being happy to not be the faction that was for the second time following a psychopathic mass murderer for stupid reasons. There really isn't much else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    Regarding Malfurion: active in Darkshore or not, the night elf faction isn't represented by a leader in the current iteration of the game just like any other race is. Just another oopsie by the devs.
    I mean Tyrande is actually part of the (Ardenweald) story and is helping her people, I would say she is representing a lot. Much more then the Void Elves, Mecha(gnomes), Worgen and others are. One would think that Alleria would come over to hunt for her sister, but no sign of her.

  15. #175
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    ~snip~I actually meant Vareesa Sanguinar though and mixed the two up.~snip~

    Still tripping up a bit my man lol

    Vareesa Windrunner

    Valeera Sanguinar
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Sorry but you dont want the best for your faction. You want it in stasis. You want it unchanging. You are afraid of risks. Meanwhile you want Horde to be absolute garbage so that your boring mess can stand out better.

    I bet vanilla Alliance questing was completely painful to you.
    So... let me get this straight. You want the faction to be changing and evolving ... back into the Vanilla faction? Right...

    In fact I want the entire plot to evolve away from the pointless faction war nonesense that so many can't let go off, so your characterization of me is wrong.

  17. #177
    Pit Lord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    So... let me get this straight. You want the faction to be changing and evolving ... back into the Vanilla faction? Right...

    In fact I want the entire plot to evolve away from the pointless faction war nonesense that so many can't let go off, so your characterization of me is wrong.
    to be fair I see nothing wrong, both factions go back to their roots and be their intended identity; I also don't mind faction conflicts on a micro scale like small cold wars in Hillsbrad vs. Southhore or something

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    I don't see how it could have been prevented
    I believe if not for Shaw's incompetence?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    but also people like Calia, Derek, Sira Moonwarden, Delaryn Summermoon were lost to the Horde
    IMO I feel like the Alliance should lose more people to the Horde: Halford Wyrmbane, Matthias Shaw, Gelbin Mekkatorque.

    I don't want Tyrande and Malfurion to be gone because Shandris will be the leader and she has been domesticated by the Alliance
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged custom models that intends to fill the gaps in the Reforged campaign

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    I just love how Raisei doesnt comprehend that people dont like monolithic lawful good grey blob that is the Wrynn alliance. Like, the very thought is utterly alien to him.
    A lot of people actually enjoy playing the good guys and are not up for the edgy bloodthirsty roleplay. People like being good outside and inside the game. Though obviously not everyone.
    You are the one that doesn't comprehend.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    Still tripping up a bit my man lol

    Vareesa Windrunner

    Valeera Sanguinar
    Haha... happens to me all the time as well.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2021-03-02 at 05:30 PM.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Thing is - Anduin is not US , he is far worse as a leader and generally sucks since he is a pacifist leading a military block.
    How has warmongering leaders worked out for the Horde or any of the enemy factions they both face?

  20. #180
    If the Alliance made sense Varian wouldn't get that title in the first place. The faction war between WotLK and MoP was the very first war he ever led. And it showed. If Alliance was portrayed realistically the ancient leaders of races like the Night Elves or the Draenei wouldn't make such a moronic choice as putting someone with so little experience in the leadership role of a conflict with a global scale.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

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