Realistic portrayal of the Alliance within World of Warcraft

[Raisei]

I just love how Raisei doesnt comprehend that people dont like monolithic lawful good grey blob that is the Wrynn alliance. Like, the very thought is utterly alien to him.

I love how you don't have the guts to actually mark me when talking about me.

1) You are blatantly generalizing. You do not know what "people" like, because people have different opinions. I stated mine with reasons for them. You just claim that everyone agrees with YOUR opinion.

I do in fact understand that it is a very popular opinion that everything has to be grimdark and at least a shade of grey. Add some body horror and over the top violence and you have the recipe why Game of Thrones (*yawn*) was so successful.

I simply happen to not share this opinion and don't need all my media to follow this same model.

2) I know you are actually a Horde player so your opinion is suspect at best.

How does @Super Dickmann put it when I comment on Horde topics like Baine and Calia again? Something about actually wanting the worst to happen to the faction for my personal amusement. I expect something very similar is going on here.

[Eggroll]

don't forget Shandris being a human male fangirl; might as well get some skin whitening and pretend to be a High Elf

I know, right? What a disgrace. Night elves ladies were never into human males, unlike their high elf counterparts.

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You don't know how lucky you are for having all those utter bores brought away from you.

Indeed I don't, because I don't see it that way.

[Verdugo]

How does @Super Dickmann put it when I comment on Horde topics like Baine and Calia again? Something about actually wanting the worst to happen to the faction for my personal amusement. I expect something very similar is going on here.

Sorry but you dont want the best for your faction. You want it in stasis. You want it unchanging. You are afraid of risks. Meanwhile you want Horde to be absolute garbage so that your boring mess can stand out better.

I bet vanilla Alliance questing was completely painful to you.

[Lodreh]

...You guys realise Metzen stated High King meant Supreme Commander of the Alliance right?...

I have yet to see proof of this assertion... best I can recall is Metzen said the position is like that of a Supreme Commander... meaning that there are differences but at that moment, for all intents and purposes, it was a safe comparison.

[Overlordd]

I have yet to see proof of this assertion... best I can recall is Metzen said the position is like that of a Supreme Commander... meaning that there are differences but at that moment, for all intents and purposes, it was a safe comparison.

sigh...
https://twitter.com/ChrisMetzen/stat...59705844957184
he says it's literally the same.
They just added "king" cause it would easily fool people.

[Raisei]

What I forgot to mention: The Alliance not only failed to prevent the genocide on their people, lost considerable lands but also people like Calia, Derek, Sira Moonwarden, Delaryn Summermoon were lost to the Horde.

I don't see how it could have been prevented. The attack was as I said a few times, a well-planned and well-executed deception and caught the Alliance off-guard. You can blame Anduin for that if you like, but none of the other leaders with immensely more combat experience saw it coming either. Once the fleet was away to Silithus it was clear that it would need time to return to Darkshore and that was exactly what Sylvanas based her plan on. The War of Thorns was effectively lost at that moment.

As for Teldrassil however. No one could have forseen it. Sylvanas either decided on the spot to do it, because of Delaryns taunts or she had the plan all along and shared it not even with Nathanos. We saved as many as we could but there was no way to see this coming and prepare for it. So I just don't see how you can blame anyone but the one who burned the tree down for this.

And what did the "winning" Alliance actually achieve? And I don't mean revenge, I mean getting back territory for instance? The Alliance lost yet more territory or had it made uninhabitable by the Horde.

It achieved nothing. The faction war was dead on arrival, because no side can ever win or loose. I mainly sustain myself with being happy to not be the faction that was for the second time following a psychopathic mass murderer for stupid reasons. There really isn't much else.

Regarding Malfurion: active in Darkshore or not, the night elf faction isn't represented by a leader in the current iteration of the game just like any other race is. Just another oopsie by the devs.

I mean Tyrande is actually part of the (Ardenweald) story and is helping her people, I would say she is representing a lot. Much more then the Void Elves, Mecha(gnomes), Worgen and others are. One would think that Alleria would come over to hunt for her sister, but no sign of her.

[AcidicSyn]

~snip~I actually meant Vareesa Sanguinar though and mixed the two up.~snip~

Still tripping up a bit my man lol

Vareesa Windrunner

Valeera Sanguinar

[Raisei]

Sorry but you dont want the best for your faction. You want it in stasis. You want it unchanging. You are afraid of risks. Meanwhile you want Horde to be absolute garbage so that your boring mess can stand out better.

I bet vanilla Alliance questing was completely painful to you.

So... let me get this straight. You want the faction to be changing and evolving ... back into the Vanilla faction? Right...

In fact I want the entire plot to evolve away from the pointless faction war nonesense that so many can't let go off, so your characterization of me is wrong.

[Ardenaso]

So... let me get this straight. You want the faction to be changing and evolving ... back into the Vanilla faction? Right...

In fact I want the entire plot to evolve away from the pointless faction war nonesense that so many can't let go off, so your characterization of me is wrong.

to be fair I see nothing wrong, both factions go back to their roots and be their intended identity; I also don't mind faction conflicts on a micro scale like small cold wars in Hillsbrad vs. Southhore or something

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I don't see how it could have been prevented

I believe if not for Shaw's incompetence?

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but also people like Calia, Derek, Sira Moonwarden, Delaryn Summermoon were lost to the Horde

IMO I feel like the Alliance should lose more people to the Horde: Halford Wyrmbane, Matthias Shaw, Gelbin Mekkatorque.

I don't want Tyrande and Malfurion to be gone because Shandris will be the leader and she has been domesticated by the Alliance

[Swnem]

I just love how Raisei doesnt comprehend that people dont like monolithic lawful good grey blob that is the Wrynn alliance. Like, the very thought is utterly alien to him.

A lot of people actually enjoy playing the good guys and are not up for the edgy bloodthirsty roleplay. People like being good outside and inside the game. Though obviously not everyone.
You are the one that doesn't comprehend.

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Still tripping up a bit my man lol

Vareesa Windrunner

Valeera Sanguinar

Haha... happens to me all the time as well.

[qwerty123456]

Thing is - Anduin is not US , he is far worse as a leader and generally sucks since he is a pacifist leading a military block.

How has warmongering leaders worked out for the Horde or any of the enemy factions they both face?

[Mehrunes]

If the Alliance made sense Varian wouldn't get that title in the first place. The faction war between WotLK and MoP was the very first war he ever led. And it showed. If Alliance was portrayed realistically the ancient leaders of races like the Night Elves or the Draenei wouldn't make such a moronic choice as putting someone with so little experience in the leadership role of a conflict with a global scale.

[Soon-TM]

A lot of people actually enjoy playing the good guys

Does the "good guy" part include sweeping all the !@#$ under the rug, in addition to being boring to tears?

[sam86]

We literally just dealt with the infighting of Kul'Tiras last expansion. What do you mean no infighting?

it wasn't infight, it was clear good vs evil, that's the problem
good in-fight example is alliance in classic until king chin appearance, stormwind leader title moved from Bolvar to Benedicus (before they decided to make him EBIL) then back to Bolvar, both are counted on good side, but have different view leadership, another great example was Fandral vs Tyrande in Teldrassil, or how alliance in general was 4 strong nations who just aren't at war with each others (nelfs won't take commands from humans or reverse)
I loved how SW was described in the (now rectonned) lore stronger than any other nation in world, but have corrupted nobles for leadership, and ignorant king (yes i know they sh8tconned all that later)
TLDR: Kul'tiras was evil trying to take control, no actual infight where both sides are good, no good character (which is assumed us player) would pick Azshara side over alliance side, while in classic if u pick Benedicus or Bolvar both choices have good solid reasons to be Stormwind leaders and u still alliance

[VladlTutushkin]

How has warmongering leaders worked out for the Horde or any of the enemy factions they both face?

Well, so far it worked swimmingly - genocide and then getting away with it, snatching some land and so on. Yeah sure they lost a wachief but its a good deal all things considered.

[sam86]

So... let me get this straight. You want the faction to be changing and evolving ... back into the Vanilla faction? Right..

Almost everyone agree that lore in classic was way better than now
Classic improved lore a LOT, added little while taking only female nelf druids and male nelf warrior (which was a little annoying)
So yes, I prefer classic, Forsaken mistrusted while tauren/orc/troll best buddies, and orcs aren't kill for kill but still 'misunderstood' WoD bullsh8t
Alliance are strong nations, they can squash horde if they unite, but a nelf would die before obey a human order, dwarfs busy with almost civil war status and gnomes f8ck everything, while Stormwind is almost strong enough to attack rest of world combined, but corrupted nobles crippling their efforts
Back then both factions were interesting, Horde have Thrall alliance have Jaina, Cairne old and wise and not a f8cking beta, Magni busy for his daughter who hates him with passion, and so on
Only 'bad' thing about alliance in classic was absence if a massive lore figure like Malfurion, but even that is forgiven with what (used to be) amazing character Fandral was, fighting for leadership in nelf society and pushing even more the already strong xenohpobe ideology
TBC added belfs (ok?) and space goats (wtf?) with the first major sh8tcon on lore, at least Metzen apologized for it, but if we knew it will open flood gates we probably would told him to shave his apology where sun doesn't shine
Wrath came with great lore but also questionable retcones (biggest one: every race DK? why?, also LK became more of morning cartoon villain than Thaddius pure evil creator villain)
Then from Cata forward they ruin more than they fix, with shit mention to WoD which blizz still refuse to explain its lore even after promises of 'answer' in Chronicles
Legion was more of fan apology, they added way too much that even sh8t lore is drowned by mediocre one
BFA is MORALLY GREY so not even up to discussion, and how they treat N'zoth is the worst thing in wow
SL: well i'm waiting to see, but so far I feel we supporting brainwash in Bastion and we should be cool with it, annihilation and genocide in Maldraxxus, and why exactly we helping brokers in maw? do we even know what is what? still no idea if it will get better or worse, at least I love Torghast and wish to explore it on every class

[qwerty123456]

Well, so far it worked swimmingly - genocide and then getting away with it, snatching some land and so on. Yeah sure they lost a wachief but its a good deal all things considered.

Everyone of them has lost in the end and most of them their lives. I don't think thats a pretty good deal for a temporary win.

[Eggroll]

I don't see how it could have been prevented. The attack was as I said a few times, a well-planned and well-executed deception and caught the Alliance off-guard. You can blame Anduin for that if you like, but none of the other leaders with immensely more combat experience saw it coming either. Once the fleet was away to Silithus it was clear that it would need time to return to Darkshore and that was exactly what Sylvanas based her plan on. The War of Thorns was effectively lost at that moment.

As for Teldrassil however. No one could have forseen it. Sylvanas either decided on the spot to do it, because of Delaryns taunts or she had the plan all along and shared it not even with Nathanos. We saved as many as we could but there was no way to see this coming and prepare for it. So I just don't see how you can blame anyone but the one who burned the tree down for this.



It achieved nothing. The faction war was dead on arrival, because no side can ever win or loose. I mainly sustain myself with being happy to not be the faction that was for the second time following a psychopathic mass murderer for stupid reasons. There really isn't much else.



I mean Tyrande is actually part of the (Ardenweald) story and is helping her people, I would say she is representing a lot. Much more then the Void Elves, Mecha(gnomes), Worgen and others are. One would think that Alleria would come over to hunt for her sister, but no sign of her.

Regarding Teldrassil and the War of Thorns: They rather sent masses of troops to the Undercity - to achieve nothing, Jaina could have pulled her deus ex machina in Darkshore as well. There was dialogue between Tyrande and Anduin where he defied her demands for Alliance military support only to waste it in the Undercity.

The Horde DOES win territory. Like Southshore etc. Why hasn't the Alliance taken back the Foothills after the Undercity was destroyed?

In "representing" I don't mean story. I mean: standing in a fixed place like faction leaders usually do. The Bronzebeards in Ironforge, Turalyon in Stormwind (Alleria is in the war room next to the throne in SW btw.), Mekkatorque in Gnomeregan, Velen in his spaceship-thingy..., this is not a request for "attention" as the devs call it. It's about the consistency of the "world" if you will.

[Swnem]

Does the "good guy" part include sweeping all the !@#$ under the rug, in addition to being boring to tears?

That is your opinion. Other people don't necessarily see it that way.

[Raisei]

Regarding Teldrassil and the War of Thorns: They rather sent masses of troops to the Undercity - to achieve nothing, Jaina could have pulled her deus ex machina in Darkshore as well. There was dialogue between Tyrande and Anduin where he defied her demands for Alliance military support only to waste it in the Undercity.

But that completely ignores the time needed for troop movement. The Undercity is on the same continent so no sea travel is needed, plus the attack was not time sensitive, they could move up there in a week or so. It's not like anyone expected Sylvanas to give up the place, so they could take their time to build up the siege. The War of Thorns only went on for a few days, there was no where enough time to move troops to the other side of the planet.

The Horde DOES win territory. Like Southshore etc. Why hasn't the Alliance taken back the Foothills after the Undercity was destroyed?

This is more a technical issue. It requires a world revamp of a zone we don't need atm, so it doesn't happen. Lore-wise the EK are ours up to the that little red tip of elves.

In "representing" I don't mean story. I mean: standing in a fixed place like faction leaders usually do. The Bronzebeards in Ironforge, Turalyon in Stormwind (Alleria is in the war room next to the throne in SW btw.), Mekkatorque in Gnomeregan, Velen in his spaceship-thingy..., this is not a request for "attention" as the devs call it. It's about the consistency of the "world" if you will.

Well, Malfurion is actually in SW. In the map room in the Keep.