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  1. #381
    Stood in the Fire Karreck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    I am shocked that a union member would claim this. Union says jump and you say "how high" thing.
    I am shocked that somebody who is so anti-union would ignore personal experiences, and documented evidence both historical and modern, that are positive. Cognitive dissonance says bad and you say "very bad" thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    I have a couple of members of my family who were in unions who would say the exact opposite. Absolutely shocked me they would talk bad of their union, but I guess their union agreeing to contracts without pay raises in them tends to sour a person on them.
    Bad unions exist. That does not discredit the good unions or the positive effect that they have. The wise and logical approach to bad unions is to reform them, not a blanket "No Unions!" attitude. Baby with the bathwater and all that.
    Princesses can kill knights to rescue dragons.

  2. #382
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    It is a great day to see people stand up for themselves.
    You mean for corporations?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  3. #383
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    You mean for corporations?
    No, themselves. Which is exactly the desired outcome - atomizing workers to the individual level so they have no bargaining power compared to their employers.

    The shills just never think they will be on the receiving end of such an arrangement because they've deluded themselves with the belief they've made the "right" choices: "I jumped through society's hoops, therefore I am not a dog in the same way as those other dogs which get the choke chain."
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Show me where you have to pee in bottles to compete?
    The article I just linked, literally.

    Again, plugging your ears, closing your eyes, and shouting, "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" doesn't make that magically disappear.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    "Unions are bad and any union member saying they're good is lying." is a great way to keep yourself in your alternate reality. Reject the evidence of your eyes and ears and only accept what the Party tells you.



    Sure Jan. I also have a couple of friends who are corporate executives and they joke about all the brutal tactics they use to exploit their workers and squash unions. I can't imagine why anyone would be in favor of corporations with the stuff I've heard, you wouldn't believe it!
    Ironic. What you just said is "Unions are awesome and any union member saying they are bad is lying". I can apply everything you said about me back on to you. You reject the evdience of your eyes and ears and only accept what your Party tells you. Amazing how unaware of that you are.

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    What you just said is "Unions are awesome and any union member saying they are bad is lying".
    Quote it, liar.

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    The article I just linked, literally.

    Again, plugging your ears, closing your eyes, and shouting, "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" doesn't make that magically disappear.
    SHow me a loine in that article where it stats Amazon forced them to pee in a bottle, not your BS spin you use to push your agenda. You are just parroting the same thing over and over again.It is BS no matter how many times you parrot it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Quote it, liar.
    YOu called my family members liars after accusing me of immediatecalling a pro-union member a liar. Own what you said for once.Liar.

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    I am for giving the choice to the worker, which is what Act 10 does regardless of what union propaganda you post. If a teacher does not want to join the teachers union, they no longer have to. You want them all forced into the union. And I am the one accused of supporting the exploitation of the worker.
    You missed the part where unions still have to represent the members of the bargaining unit even if they aren't paying them dues or agency fees. I thought you didn't like freeloaders?
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    A company setting up a competitive structure that encourages workers to engage in unsafe/unsanitary practices, while knowing about those practices and taking no action to prevent them, is causation.

    If Amazon just gave all their drivers overtime pay and they didn't have to compete for it, nobody would be peeing in bottles. I can't believe such an obvious connection of literally the only two dots on this connect-the-dots page is still mystifying to you.
    Repeating the same lie over and over again doesn't make it truth. They aren't completeing against each other. Liar.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    You missed the part where unions still have to represent the members of the bargaining unit even if they aren't paying them dues or agency fees. I thought you didn't like freeloaders?
    What part of they don't have to join the union at all do you not get? Not just fees.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Kudos to the Amazon employees in Alabama. They didn't let the pro-union people(16% of voters) bully them into taking a bad deal.

    Bravo.
    people of the south voting against their best interest, always shocks.....no one......anymore

    I mean hell they convinced the people in Alabama that accepting Expanded Medicaid would cost them billions when in fact it would cost them about a billion over 10 years and the would receive over 14 billion in funding in return. their hospitals would receive an extra 7 billion in payments.

    on top of all this they have paid about 4 billion in federal taxes to support...wait for it....the expansion of Medicaid so far.
    and the majority of people in the state want it.


    https://www.urban.org/sites/default/...-Medicaid-.PDF


    guess they were not going to let Obama bully them into a bad deal either !!!!
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  11. #391
    Stood in the Fire Karreck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post

    YOu called my family members liars after accusing me of immediatecalling a pro-union member a liar. Own what you said for once.Liar.
    No he didn't. This is what he said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Sure Jan. I also have a couple of friends who are corporate executives and they joke about all the brutal tactics they use to exploit their workers and squash unions. I can't imagine why anyone would be in favor of corporations with the stuff I've heard, you wouldn't believe it!
    He never once said your family members were lying. He implied you are lying.

    Reading Comprehension is your friend.
    Princesses can kill knights to rescue dragons.

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    SHow me a loine in that article where it stats Amazon forced them to pee in a bottle, not your BS spin you use to push your agenda. You are just parroting the same thing over and over again.It is BS no matter how many times you parrot it.
    Promotions and overtime based on performance, putting drivers in competition with each other which de-fact encourages this kind of dangerous behavior without any safeguards in place, even after they knew it was happening and were lying about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    YOu called my family members liars after accusing me of immediatecalling a pro-union member a liar. Own what you said for once.Liar.
    I snarkily dismissed it, yes. Still waiting for you to show where I've written anything you claimed I wrote, liar.

  13. #393
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Meanwhile, the Scandinavian countries dont even need a min. wage because of how strong unions are.


    Anybody who opposes unions clearly does from a very privileged position.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    it’s mostly a syndicalist fantasy that “the workers” are going to rise up, which is disconnected from the fact that “the workers” are your racist uncle and jerk co-workers who you don’t like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The election has passed and 58 million working class Americans stood up and proved that they are in fact your racist uncle and jerk co-workers.
    They really can't help but show disdain for the working class.

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by Karreck View Post
    I am shocked that somebody who is so anti-union would ignore personal experiences, and documented evidence both historical and modern, that are positive. Cognitive dissonance says bad and you say "very bad" thing.
    So the personal experinces of my family members don't count. Oh right, only the positive ones count.



    Bad unions exist. That does not discredit the good unions or the positive effect that they have. The wise and logical approach to bad unions is to reform them, not a blanket "No Unions!" attitude. Baby with the bathwater and all that.
    But you are doing a hell of a job changing the subject of bad unions though. You can't reform bad unions when they have the power that they have. As long as they have people like you that continually refuse to stand up and condemn them while being only willing to talk about the good ones, they will continue to operate. Bad unions don't go away by you and everyone else on the pro-union side ignoring them or making excuses for them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Promotions and overtime based on performance, putting drivers in competition with each other which de-fact encourages this kind of dangerous behavior without any safeguards in place, even after they knew it was happening and were lying about it.



    I snarkily dismissed it, yes. Still waiting for you to show where I've written anything you claimed I wrote, liar.
    So you admit you think my family members lied.

    Liar.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Karreck View Post
    No he didn't. This is what he said.



    He never once said your family members were lying. He implied you are lying.

    Reading Comprehension is your friend.
    She admitrtted she dismissed what they said. That means she thinks they lied. She is a liar, plain and simple.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    You can't reform bad unions when they have the power that they have.
    You don't seem to have an understanding of how little power unions have left after decades of Republicans whittling away collective bargaining.

    Also, this is a spectacular failure of imagination.

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    What part of they don't have to join the union at all do you not get? Not just fees.
    Even if they don't join, the union still has to bargain for them- that's federal law. Under Act 10 (and other "right to work" laws), a (for example) teacher that gets hired in a unionized district would not have to join the union, or pay them agency fees. However, the union would still have to negotiate on their behalf because they are in the same bargaining unit, and thus they would get all of the benefits bargained by the union without actually having to pay for representation. These laws force unions to take freeloaders; that is the point of them.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    So you admit you think my family members lied.

    Liar.
    No, I think you made that shit up. I don't care about unprovable anecdotes, especially from you.

    Still waiting for you to quote where I wrote any of the myriad things you claim I've written. It should be pretty easy, all my posts can easily be linked to or quoted.

  18. #398
    the best thing about it is how workers understand whats best for them and largely ignore the culture war stuff
    alot of gop politicians came out in support of unionization because they hated "woke" amazon being socially liberall but it turns out workers are like nahh i like my high paying job more..maybe the gop should focus on things like that instead of punishing capitalists, the far left and far right waant to break up amazon and the average person just wants 2 day shipping with amazing savings
    Last edited by arandomuser; 2021-04-09 at 08:30 PM.

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    Even if they don't join, the union still has to bargain for them- that's federal law. Under Act 10 (and other "right to work" laws), a (for example) teacher that gets hired in a unionized district would not have to join the union, or pay them agency fees. However, the union would still have to negotiate on their behalf because they are in the same bargaining unit, and thus they would get all of the benefits bargained by the union without actually having to pay for representation. These laws force unions to take freeloaders; that is the point of them.
    Nope. Under Wisconsin Act 10, Collective bargaining is limited to wages only. Not benefits.

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Nope. Under Wisconsin Act 10, Collective bargaining is limited to wages only. Not benefits.
    Ok scratch benefits. The point of the law is still to force freeloaders on unions.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

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