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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    the best thing about it is how workers understand whats best for them and largely ignore the culture war stuff
    alot of gop politicians came out in support of unionization because they hated "woke" amazon being socially liberall but it turns out workers are like nahh i like my high paying job more..maybe the gop should focus on things like that instead of punishing capitalists, the far left and far right waant to break up amazon and the average person just wants 2 day shipping with amazing savings
    You have that backwards. It's the Democrats who came out in support of unions because Unions donate heavy amounts of money to them. The GOP are against unions. There wasn't a single GOP politician that would speak in support of a union.

  2. #402
    Stood in the Fire Karreck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    So the personal experinces of my family members don't count. Oh right, only the positive ones count.
    Are they your experiences? Relying second hand information is not the same as my first hand information.

    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    But you are doing a hell of a job changing the subject of bad unions though. You can't reform bad unions when they have the power that they have. As long as they have people like you that continually refuse to stand up and condemn them while being only willing to talk about the good ones, they will continue to operate. Bad unions don't go away by you and everyone else on the pro-union side ignoring them or making excuses for them.
    I am not part of a bad union. I like union very much. I feel supported by them, I have channels to address issues and grievances, and my experience with them has been overwhelmingly positive. If the situation turns sour, I have the resources and the abilities to address my own union and right the ship.
    I do not have that same influence with other unions. I can only support and advise my friends who are in said "bad" unions, which I have. The higher ups in our local branch of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers were removed and replaced about ten years ago because the members of the union had major concerns over leadership. Turns out, after they were removed, one of the board members was discovered to have been embezzling. The members of the union handled their issues and the union is better for it. In fact, this branch now stands out as a beacon of proper union leadership.

    So we do stand up against bad unions. But you believe all unions are bad, so you are inclined to believe that the very existence of unions means nobody is standing up.
    You might need to adjust your perception.
    Princesses can kill knights to rescue dragons.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    Ok scratch benefits. The point of the law is still to force freeloaders on unions.
    You get wages regardless. How is it freeloading when a union is not required to get wages? Methinks you don't know what freeloading actually means.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    You have that backwards. It's the Democrats who came out in support of unions because Unions donate heavy amounts of money to them. The GOP are against unions. There wasn't a single GOP politician that would speak in support of a union.
    https://fortune.com/2021/03/15/marco...ganized-labor/

    Did Marco Rubio suddenly leave the Republican party and nobody told him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    You get wages regardless. How is it freeloading when a union is not required to get wages? Methinks you don't know what freeloading actually means.
    They're benefitting from the collective bargaining power of the union, paid for by dues-paying members. That's freeloading, yo.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    You have that backwards. It's the Democrats who came out in support of unions because Unions donate heavy amounts of money to them. The GOP are against unions. There wasn't a single GOP politician that would speak in support of a union.
    dems have always been in favor of unions, dems even passed most pro union bill ever in the house
    but whats different is the gops recent disdain and hate for corporations becoming socially liberal( https://www.wsj.com/articles/sen-mar...ma-11615559462), and im a democrat and i dont even like the union i think its one our problems getting our agenda done in places like cali and ny where unions have an outsized influence over policy, but the gop is screwing over its own base by hating on corps

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    You get wages regardless. How is it freeloading when a union is not required to get wages? Methinks you don't know what freeloading actually means.
    There are 100 workers in a union shop. 55 are union, and pay dues. 45 are non-union, and (thanks to 'right to work' laws) pay zero dues or agency fees. The union bargains for all 100 workers. The 45 that DON'T pay the union therefore gain the perks of being in a union (higher wages than they would bargain individually). The 55 union workers pay the union for the same perks. The 45 get the same perks without paying anything. That's what I mean by "freeloading." Getting everything a union worker gets without paying the union.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    You have that backwards. It's the Democrats who came out in support of unions because Unions donate heavy amounts of money to them. The GOP are against unions. There wasn't a single GOP politician that would speak in support of a union.

    You have that backwards. The unions donate to the Dems because, unlike the GOP, they aren't trying to actively undermine them. Maybe learn some labor history?
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Karreck View Post
    Are they your experiences? Relying second hand information is not the same as my first hand information.
    I was there and was showed what was going on. It wasn't hard to see. All I had to do was look at their history of paychecks. It was a joke and nobody did anything to the union leaders who perpetuated it Sad that Act 10 didn't come in until after they retired. They could have saved a lot of money instead of wasting it going to a union that didn't give a damn about them.

    The fact that bad unions continue to exist tells me nothing is really being done about it because people are too afraid to go against union leadership.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    You have that backwards. The unions donate to the Dems because, unlike the GOP, they aren't trying to actively undermine them. Maybe learn some labor history?
    They donate to the dems because the dems will buy their BS to get votes. The GOP sees right through it. Learn some political history.

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    I was there and was showed what was going on. It wasn't hard to see. All I had to do was look at their history of paychecks. It was a joke and nobody did anything to the union leaders who perpetuated it Sad that Act 10 didn't come in until after they retired. They could have saved a lot of money instead of wasting it going to a union that didn't give a damn about them.

    The fact that bad unions continue to exist tells me nothing is really being done about it because people are too afraid to go against union leadership.
    Man, it's almost like with the diminished power of unions and collective bargaining, negotiation for pay increases is often challenging. Glad you're putting the pieces together, even if you don't quite realize it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    The GOP sees right through it. Learn some political history.
    https://twitter.com/marcorubio/statu...50202369404931

    Is Marco Rubio a fictitious person?

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    They donate to the dems because the dems will buy their BS to get votes. The GOP sees right through it. Learn some political history.
    The Dems have been the pro-union party for DECADES before the flood of money in politics that we have today. Going back to like...the New Deal Era.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    dems have always been in favor of unions, dems even passed most pro union bill ever in the house
    but whats different is the gops recent disdain and hate for corporations becoming socially liberal( https://www.wsj.com/articles/sen-mar...ma-11615559462), and im a democrat and i dont even like the union i think its one our problems getting our agenda done in places like cali and ny where unions have an outsized influence over policy, but the gop is screwing over its own base by hating on corps
    They were completely on Amazon's side. They have alwasy been on the side of businesses, business wise. They sure as hell didn't come out in favor of unization of Amazon. Having a disagreement on social issued does not mean they have a disdain. They are together when it matters and that is on the business end.

    NY and Cali have issues because they are heavily far left. Unions don't need to influence because the far left eats at their trough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    The Dems have been the pro-union party for DECADES before the flood of money in politics that we have today. Going back to like...the New Deal Era.
    They were getting donations from day one. It's all about votes and always has been. Who will grease your palms the most.

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    They were completely on Amazon's side.
    Again, does Marco Rubio not exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    They have alwasy been on the side of businesses, business wise.
    Except for like, that time businesses criticized the GA voting law and Republicans got upset that corporations have free speech, because the only speech Republicans like from corporations comes in the form of political contributions, apparently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    NY and Cali have issues because they are heavily far left.
    What issues? Actual issues? Or nebulous "issues"?

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    They were getting donations from day one. It's all about votes and always has been. Who will grease your palms the most.
    Except it was a Democratic Congress and Democratic president that signed the NLRA...you know...the very act that allows for unions to exist as they do. The Dems wrote legislation to promote unionizations BEFORE there were unions capable of donating. Again...learn your history.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  13. #413
    Stood in the Fire Karreck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    I was there and was showed what was going on. It wasn't hard to see. All I had to do was look at their history of paychecks. It was a joke and nobody did anything to the union leaders who perpetuated it Sad that Act 10 didn't come in until after they retired. They could have saved a lot of money instead of wasting it going to a union that didn't give a damn about them.

    The fact that bad unions continue to exist tells me nothing is really being done about it because people are too afraid to go against union leadership.
    So you attended all the meetings? Were you present during the voting?
    Honestly, I think you are talking out of your ass. Every member of a union knows how to address bad leadership and the steps you can take. Best part is, these steps can be done anonymously to prevent retaliation.
    Princesses can kill knights to rescue dragons.

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Man, it's almost like with the diminished power of unions and collective bargaining, negotiation for pay increases is often challenging. Glad you're putting the pieces together, even if you don't quite realize it.
    Read what I wrote. They retired BEFORE Act 10 came in. That means despite all that power they had they refused to get pay increases for their workers. That is why if Act 10 had been in, they could have said all the money she wasted on dues to act as her pay increase since the union wasn't getting one for them. It almost like you are so eager to rush in and parrot your union propaganda BS that you don't even bother to read. They have you so snowed you can't think for yourself anymore.

  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Read what I wrote. They retired BEFORE Act 10 came in.
    Yes, your historical ignorance about unions is very obvious. I'm talking about the literal decades dating back to Reagan, and even earlier. You have a lot of catching up to do on this topic.

  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Read what I wrote. They retired BEFORE Act 10 came in. That means despite all that power they had they refused to get pay increases for their workers. That is why if Act 10 had been in, they could have said all the money she wasted on dues to act as her pay increase since the union wasn't getting one for them. It almost like you are so eager to rush in and parrot your union propaganda BS that you don't even bother to read. They have you so snowed you can't think for yourself anymore.
    Oh wow, your knowledge of unions is horribly outdated then.

    That explains a lot.
    Princesses can kill knights to rescue dragons.

  17. #417
    It would appear that they don't want to unionize. Good for them, either way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Karreck View Post
    So you attended all the meetings? Were you present during the voting?
    Honestly, I think you are talking out of your ass. Every member of a union knows how to address bad leadership and the steps you can take. Best part is, these steps can be done anonymously to prevent retaliation.
    I knew almost everyone who was in that union. They were all liberals who were more than happy to eat whatever their union shoveled to them. At least a majority of them had a spouse with a large 2nd income so it didn't matter that they were getting paid peanuts. Bad leadership thrives when it's workers do not care.As long as the majority get their pension and health insurance, who cares about those who having a hard time making ends meet that could use more money in the paycheck.

    IT also doesn't matter what steps you have. If your leadership gives off an Intiimidating presence, that is enough to keep people silent no matter how anonymous you can be. It's all about keeping the process from starting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karreck View Post
    Oh wow, your knowledge of unions is horribly outdated then.

    That explains a lot.
    It's not outdated. That is exactly how their union operated. Sorry that there is a union that doesn't fall under your rosy, pollyanna view of them.

  19. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Bad leadership thrives when it's workers do not care.
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    IT also doesn't matter what steps you have. If your leadership gives off an Intiimidating presence, that is enough to keep people silent no matter how anonymous you can be. It's all about keeping the process from starting.
    You are making our point for us when it comes to Amazon.
    Princesses can kill knights to rescue dragons.

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    At least a majority of them had a spouse with a large 2nd income so it didn't matter that they were getting paid peanuts.
    Ignoring that having both parents working is commonplace across the board now as jobs don't pay anything like they used to in the "good old days", while also ignoring, again, the history of how union collective bargaining power has been whittled away over the years and most unions are doing everything they can to protect their health care plans as those are immensely valuable for a great many unions. They provide insane coverage, and my family was a direct beneficiary of this while my father worked in a union for years - without that health insurance we'd be bankrupted multiple times over.

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