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  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    LOL, so, because you have no examples, you just want to call them propaganda because they hurt your little feelers with the truth?
    Neither do you, but carry on.

  2. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    Neither do you, but carry on.
    What am I supposed to prove? Because I can prove ANYTHING I claim, because I am not a sheep and don't post about something I don't know about or claim something as fact, without evidence.

    So, try me, what do you want me to prove?

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    What am I supposed to prove? Because I can prove ANYTHING I claim, because I am not a sheep and don't post about something I don't know about or claim something as fact, without evidence.

    So, try me, what do you want me to prove?
    You made the claim

    They literally used bots and fucking propaganda in their workplaces to sway people. Much like Russians with Trump voters.
    Please prove both without using dubious MSM articles. I want specific examples, preferably with video and images.

  4. #544
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    You made the claim



    Please prove both without using dubious MSM articles. I want specific examples, preferably with video and images.
    LOL, so you want me to use something like Newsmax, OANN, Fox News or some other shit right wing source that probably doesn't have all the evidence or story?

    Nope, I will use real sources.

    Here is a couple sources for Amazon using fake accounts to spread propaganda.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56581266
    https://www.geekwire.com/2021/amazon...-union-effort/

    And here is Russians pushing literal fake news with bots in 2016:
    https://www.npr.org/sections/alltech...-2016-election
    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...-had-disclosed

    I can provide probably a dozen more articles, but you will probably just whine anyway because of the sources.

  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    - - - Updated - - -



    Lost a vote, immediately blame someone other than the voters for the result. How about an alternative, like the workers voted freely in their own self-interest, and gave people like you the middle finger, and you just can’t accept that.

    Democracy involves losing, fairly, sometimes. You best get around to showing you support it even if you don’t like the results. Because right now it appears you want to fuck the workers if they don’t vote the way you want—they’re obviously pawns of propaganda or something.
    You must live in a basement and never stepped foot into the real world ever. Because in no way was what Amazon did was fair. If Amazon actually cared for their workers they would embrace and work with unions.

    I was willing to accept my employees unionizing if they wanted to was was open about it when hiring my teams. But Amazon has done everything they can to encourage people from joining including firing people for trying to organize, requiring on site voting under the watch of management, using fake social media accounts to push anti union messaging, using in warehouse anti union propaganda, and using their daily employee new/info services as anti union propaganda.

  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    You must live in a basement and never stepped foot into the real world ever. Because in no way was what Amazon did was fair. If Amazon actually cared for their workers they would embrace and work with unions.

    I was willing to accept my employees unionizing if they wanted to was was open about it when hiring my teams. But Amazon has done everything they can to encourage people from joining including firing people for trying to organize, requiring on site voting under the watch of management, using fake social media accounts to push anti union messaging, using in warehouse anti union propaganda, and using their daily employee new/info services as anti union propaganda.
    Apparently, Amazon’s workers disagreed with you. And just as you’re free to encourage, with your voice, workers to unionize and use that structure, Amazon can (in your words) “encourage people from joining.”

    And fuck if it ain’t paternalistic to lose a vote and essentially blame the workers for falling to propaganda. The only fair fight you’re in favor of is one where the outcome goes with you and the messaging starts and ends with your perspective.

    I don’t even think you can cheer if they voted to unionize in good faith. Only one vote result would be deemed fair and you were ready to call them dupes of propaganda if they went the other way. That’s not an honest perspective on voting, “maybe we’ll convince them it’s in their own interest to vote my way next time,” that’s rejecting the principle of possibly losing a vote, period.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    They literally used bots and fucking propaganda in their workplaces to sway people. Much like Russians with Trump voters.
    Whine all you want, but you’re saying the workers were so dumb as to be misled by bots and propaganda.

    Amazon should have the balls to congratulate their workers for not falling to pro-union propaganda. And let me know if you find interviews with union workers saying they didn’t like the wages and health benefits, until they read a social media account run by a bot, and then were convinced they were great. Like all the other lost-an-election-time-to-whine instances, the impact is always asserted, not tested.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  7. #547
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    I expect my labor will be paid for at market rates...
    Well that's a damn fucking lie.

    So do you think being paid $20 when the average for a job is $18 when you produce $150/hr is "market rate" is a good exchange?
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  8. #548
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    You made the claim

    Please prove both without using dubious MSM articles. I want specific examples, preferably with video and images.
    Yeah, this is just you pre-emptively stating you'll freely ignore any evidence they produce by targeting the source.

    It's no different than a Flat-Earther demanding you prove the Earth is round without using obviously-doctored-or-fake footage from space or any of the fake math made up by Rounders.

    Just a conspiracy theory defending by insisting that all contradictory evidence is fake.

  9. #549
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Whine all you want, but you’re saying the workers were so dumb as to be misled by bots and propaganda.

    Amazon should have the balls to congratulate their workers for not falling to pro-union propaganda. And let me know if you find interviews with union workers saying they didn’t like the wages and health benefits, until they read a social media account run by a bot, and then were convinced they were great. Like all the other lost-an-election-time-to-whine instances, the impact is always asserted, not tested.
    Hate to break it to you bud, but propaganda works. Targeting workers with anti-union propaganda has been a staple in the capitalist toolbox since the Industrial Revolution. When that doesn't work, they usually pressure workers in other ways like making an example out of the ones attempting to organize by firing them. None of this new and it's not like Amazon's tactics weren't used before. This isn't simply a case of a worker stumbling upon an anti-union twitter account and changing their mind that instant. Unions have been demonized for decades in America (Thanks CATO and Reason) and a lot of money and effort has gone into conditioning workers to not trust unions and each other.

    This is ultimately why organizing and countering propaganda is so important. Union organizers should use Amazon's Alabama warehouse as an example of how powerful capital is in the post-USSR world and plan accordingly. This isn't the first time they'll fend off unionization in America and it sure as shit won't be the last.
    Last edited by downnola; 2021-04-14 at 03:22 PM.
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  10. #550
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Well that's a damn fucking lie.

    So do you think being paid $20 when the average for a job is $18 when you produce $150/hr is "market rate" is a good exchange?
    Its arbitrary anyway. The boundaries of the market are all defined and codified by the structure of the state they operate in. This distinction between natural and artifical is in itself artificial.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  11. #551
    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    Hate to break it to you bud, but propaganda works. Targeting workers with anti-union propaganda has been a stable in the capitalist toolbox since the Industrial Revolution. When that doesn't work, they usually pressure workers in other ways like making an example out of the ones attempting to organize by firing them. None of this new and it's not like Amazon's tactics weren't used before. This isn't simply a case of a worker stumbling upon an anti-union twitter account and changing their mind that instant. Unions have been demonized for decades in America (Thanks CATO and Reason) and a lot of money and effort has gone into conditioning workers to not trust unions and each other.

    This is ultimately why organizing and countering propaganda is so important. Union organizers should use Amazon's Alabama warehouse as an example of how powerful capital is in the post-USSR world and plan accordingly. This isn't the first time they'll fend off unionization in America and it sure as shit won't be the last.
    In one sense, you're right that unions have to do much better with their propaganda. They have to demonstrate to workers that they'll get value for their union dues. This may be harder than they realize on job sites with double state minimum wage and day 1 health benefits (after the vote, some quoted workers pointed to that as part of their reasoning in voting against the union).

    And, to be honest, the margin of victory at over 2:1 should convince thinking people that this wasn't a case of intolerable working conditions and low pay. And if we're talking demonization, please note that Amazon has been portrayed as an evil corporation punishing its workers for quite a while now. They should have been the ones fighting an uphill battle showing workers unions would only take their money and not give them benefits they wanted, but it's clear that the union failed to make its case.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  12. #552
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Well that's a damn fucking lie.

    So do you think being paid $20 when the average for a job is $18 when you produce $150/hr is "market rate" is a good exchange?
    If it costs the company $146/hour in total for my $150/hour production, then absolutely.

    However, I get paid over $30/hour and produce, on the balance sheet, $0.
    Last edited by Kellhound; 2021-04-14 at 04:50 AM.
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  13. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    If it costs the company $146/hour in total for my $150/hour production, then absolutely.

    However, I get paid over $30/hour and produce, on the balance sheet, $0.
    Yeah no it isn't costing the company that...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  14. #554
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Yeah no it isn't costing the company that...
    You would be surprised what it costs to be in some businesses.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  15. #555
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Apparently, Amazon’s workers disagreed with you. And just as you’re free to encourage, with your voice, workers to unionize and use that structure, Amazon can (in your words) “encourage people from joining.”

    And fuck if it ain’t paternalistic to lose a vote and essentially blame the workers for falling to propaganda. The only fair fight you’re in favor of is one where the outcome goes with you and the messaging starts and ends with your perspective.

    I don’t even think you can cheer if they voted to unionize in good faith. Only one vote result would be deemed fair and you were ready to call them dupes of propaganda if they went the other way. That’s not an honest perspective on voting, “maybe we’ll convince them it’s in their own interest to vote my way next time,” that’s rejecting the principle of possibly losing a vote, period.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Whine all you want, but you’re saying the workers were so dumb as to be misled by bots and propaganda.

    Amazon should have the balls to congratulate their workers for not falling to pro-union propaganda. And let me know if you find interviews with union workers saying they didn’t like the wages and health benefits, until they read a social media account run by a bot, and then were convinced they were great. Like all the other lost-an-election-time-to-whine instances, the impact is always asserted, not tested.
    If you are inder6the impression tha propaganda only works on dumb people and that people never vote against their own interests by thinking of the short term then there is no possible way to have an honest discussion with you.

  16. #556
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    This might not be over quite yet.

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/u...ds-2021-04-28/

    Evidence submitted by a retail union that raised objections to Amazon.com Inc's (AMZN.O) conduct at this month's union election in Alabama "could be grounds for overturning the vote", the National Labor Relations Board said on Wednesday.

    The labor board has overturned several union elections over the years. In 2016, the board overturned an election the United Steelworks union lost by a decisive vote - a decision criticized by large U.S. business lobbies.

    The NLRB will hold a hearing on May 7 to consider objections filed by the Retail Wholesale and Department Store Union (RWDSU), which failed to secure enough votes from Amazon warehouse workers to form a union. The vote count announced on April 9 showed that workers at Amazon's Bessemer, Alabama, warehouse rejected the union by a more than 2-to-1 margin.

    "The evidence submitted by the union in support of its objections could be grounds for overturning the election if introduced at a hearing," the labor board said.

    The RWDSU submitted nearly two dozen objections to Amazon's conduct during the election, which it said prevented employees from a "free and uncoerced exercise of choice" on whether to create the company's first U.S. union.

    The RWDSU alleged that Amazon's agents unlawfully threatened employees with closure of the warehouse if they joined the union and that the company emailed a warning it would lay off 75% of the proposed bargaining unit because of the union.

    Amazon, which has denied the allegations, did not respond to requests for comment.

    For much of its history, the NLRB has used its decision-making authority to change labor policy by establishing new precedents. The board has repeatedly overturned cases decided by prior administrations. Under the Trump administration, it overturned cases detrimental to employers which had been decided during the preceding Obama presidency.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
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