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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Essentially and actually are two different things..
    Not really, the entire point is that you are advocating for what is slavery in all but name, regardless of whatever stupid unrelated example you choose to come up with to advocate for slavery.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    It's not, period, and I don't care what you think.
    We already knew you don't care if your actions harm others. Don't need to repeat it in every thread you go to.
    Last edited by PosPosPos; 2021-03-06 at 02:48 PM.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

    Prediction for the future

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Yas-Queen Rochana View Post
    Keyword: "was" - nowadays the meaning has changed and it shouldn't be used to bludgeon people with the accusation of racism either when the word is used. It's very endemic for americo-centrism to turn everything into a race issue. We're on international forums here, generally speaking when Commonwealth people use the word they're not even remotely considering race, so it's a bit tired to have 'american progressives' rushing to it.
    Speaking from personal experience, it still has racial overtones.

    The luxury of being a white guy, you get to hear other white people speak more frankly than than if they’re around minorities.

    And while they aren’t OPENLY using for racist overtones and are more willing to apply it to others, it is very much directed in a very racial way and from people who put feelings before facts and will get all butt hurt if you proven them wrong.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  3. #163
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Why do they deserve to bargain on "more equal terms" though?
    Why should one side be allowed to legally forbid the other side from bargaining on equal terms? I mean? Why then shouldn't the Union be allowed since the only thing stopping its existence and protecting these people from an angry mob is the violence of the State? So as a matter of fact these "Strong men" are utterly dependent on big daddy government to save their bratty ass from the consequences of what utterly terrible people they are by keeping the masses at bay.

    The lack of equality is simply because one is the bratty sub of the State.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    It can’t exist outside US... because, they don’t consider welfare to be an affront.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yas-Queen Rochana View Post
    This is absurdly incorrect.
    Actually here in Germany welfare is a citizen right that comes directly from the first article of our Basic Law: "Human dignity shall be inviolable".

    Btw, personally I think our welfare doesn't even satisfy that article since it can be cut low under certain circumstances. In my opinion we should have Universal Basic Income if we actually mean the dignity thing.
    Last edited by Twdft; 2021-03-06 at 04:42 PM.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Why should one side be allowed to legally forbid the other side from bargaining on equal terms? I mean? Why then shouldn't the Union be allowed since the only thing stopping its existence and protecting these people from an angry mob is the violence of the State?
    Unions should be allowed to exist, but people should be allowed to walk right past their picket line or not be a part of it if they so choose as an individual, which would severely or entirely cripple unions as they currently exist.

    So as a matter of fact these "Strong men" are utterly dependent on big daddy government to save their bratty ass from the consequences of what utterly terrible people they are by keeping the masses at bay.

    The lack of equality is simply because one is the bratty sub of the State.
    If you're fine with violence as a bargaining tool then we have nothing else to talk about. People can't just lash out and take what they want or need by force. Again, if you think differently and are okay with that, don't bother replying. Also where do you live so I can come seize some stuff I need from you?

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    If you're fine with violence as a bargaining tool then we have nothing else to talk about. People can't just lash out and take what they want or need by force. Again, if you think differently and are okay with that, don't bother replying. Also where do you live so I can come seize some stuff I need from you?
    Big business is fine with violence and coercion.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    Whether they deserve it is more of a moral and ethical question. And unless you want to make it illegal to unionise and restrict people's freedom then there is nothing that stops people form organizing themselves.
    Unionizing is fine. I'm not advocating for it to not exist. We'd have to go further into the weeds, but ultimately unions shouldn't be allowed to restrict the freedoms of individuals or companies either. Meaning anyone that was fine not being part of the union would be free to stay that way and the company would be free to hire them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Big business is fine with violence and coercion.
    K, but that's not the issue we're talking about here right? I didn't say I'm fine with everything big businesses do.

  8. #168
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    ultimately unions shouldn't be allowed to restrict the freedoms of individuals or companies either.
    Why, though?
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Why, though?
    Because my core belief is that freedom is the paramount human right and should be as unrestricted as humanly possible (just short of allowing violence/murder/theft/whatever).

  10. #170
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Because my core belief is that freedom is the paramount human right and should be as unrestricted as humanly possible (just short of allowing violence/murder/theft/whatever).
    Okay, but assuming nobody besides you cares about your opinion - how's that remotely connected to reality?

    Flat Earth is also "a core belief" for a lot of people, doesn't mean we need to regard it as anything but bullshit. Rofl.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  11. #171
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Unions should be allowed to exist, but people should be allowed to walk right past their picket line or not be a part of it if they so choose as an individual, which would severely or entirely cripple unions as they currently exist.

    If you're fine with violence as a bargaining tool then we have nothing else to talk about. People can't just lash out and take what they want or need by force. Again, if you think differently and are okay with that, don't bother replying. Also where do you live so I can come seize some stuff I need from you?
    Again, you want the State to protect these allegedly "Strong Individuals", so, Strong in the sense of it takes an army and police force to protect their wicked deeds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Again, you want the State to protect these allegedly "Strong Individuals", so, Strong in the sense of it takes an army and police force to protect their wicked deeds.
    Are you so sure it's not the other way around, too? Those big armies aren't stopping these corporations from amassing their own feudal forces and ACTUALLY forcefully subjugating the weak as actual slaves?

    The idea is no one has that type of "tool" in their tool box. It's literally an illegal form of play.

  13. #173
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Are you so sure it's not the other way around, too? Those big armies aren't stopping these corporations from amassing their own feudal forces and ACTUALLY forcefully subjugating the weak as actual slaves?

    The idea is no one has that type of "tool" in their tool box. It's literally an illegal form of play.
    Nice idea, doesn't work in reality. I am once again asking you to actually read Weber.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Okay, but assuming nobody besides you cares about your opinion - how's that remotely connected to reality?
    And assuming no one cares about the opinions of all those weak people and they'd be fine going on living without them, how is your/their view remotely connected to reality?

    Flat Earth is also "a core belief" for a lot of people, doesn't mean we need to regard it as anything but bullshit. Rofl.
    Trying to equate a moral view with a verifiably false universality/fact is cute. One has infinite possibilities and no "best". The other has only one actual state of reality that necessarily exists for all in the same capacity.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Nice idea, doesn't work in reality. I am once again asking you to actually read Weber.
    Seems to be working just fine. People dying or suffering as a result of preventable stuff isn't the atrocity you make it out to be.

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    And assuming no one cares about the opinions of all those weak people and they'd be fine going on living without them, how is your/their view remotely connected to reality?
    Non sequitur.

    I'm pointing out that you stating "X is bad" and then saying "it's my opinion" when asked to prove it is kinda cringe.

    Trying to equate a moral view with a verifiably false universality/fact is cute. One has infinite possibilities and no "best". The other has only one actual state of reality that necessarily exists for all in the same capacity.
    Except... we can actually verify the impacts of workplace regulations and unionization.

    You just *want* to try and elevate it to an ethical abstraction so you can treat it as a thought experiment - i.e. don't have to provide evidence to back up your silly assertions, lol.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    People dying or suffering as a result of preventable stuff isn't the atrocity you make it out to be.
    The way you feel the need to come into every thread and repeat "I don't care about other people" really just broadcasts a deep set of insecurities surrounding that belief that you feel the need to keep publicly repeating it to strangers seeking validation. Maybe check that.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  16. #176
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Are you so sure it's not the other way around, too? Those big armies aren't stopping these corporations from amassing their own feudal forces and ACTUALLY forcefully subjugating the weak as actual slaves?

    The idea is no one has that type of "tool" in their tool box. It's literally an illegal form of play.
    Well, in the past, a Lord had to actually keep and placate the community around them. You know, at some point a knight takes their armor off, and has to sleep.

    The idea that the State should exist purely for Capital and protecting Capital from the consequences of exploitation is IMHO ridiculous.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I'm pointing out that you stating "X is bad" and then saying "it's my opinion" when asked to prove it is kinda cringe.
    Entirely not. There is no proving what someone thinks is bad or good, just like there's no proving someone's opinion that one color is better than another.


    Except... we can actually verify the impacts of workplace regulations and unionization.
    You'd have to be able to say that everyone cares about what those impacts are to say it's "better" or not.

    The way you feel the need to come into every thread and repeat "I don't care about other people" really just broadcasts a deep set of insecurities surrounding that belief that you feel the need to keep publicly repeating it to strangers seeking validation. Maybe check that.
    The way you constantly feel the need to always push ethical discussions to the same point where I feel the need to say these things is why I do it (because lets be real, all of these topics stem from the same place: the fact that you want to obligate people to care for and about other people).

  18. #178
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Entirely not. There is no proving what someone thinks is bad or good, just like there's no proving someone's opinion that one color is better than another.
    Yeah, no. Once again - trying to elevate it into an abstract realm so you can weasel out of having to back up your assertions will continue to be lazy and dishonest. Rofl. The only person pushing discussions to the same point is the person who jumps into every thread with the same daily reminder that sociopathy - sorry, liberty - is good actually with all the same sort of 'gotcha' energy as asking people to prove that the sun will rise tomorrow.

    If you want to state blatantly inhumane political positions and not have them challenged, Gab is that way.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2021-03-06 at 09:50 PM.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Yeah, no. Once again - trying to elevate it into an abstract realm so you can weasel out of having to back up your assertions will continue to be lazy and dishonest. Rofl. The only person pushing discussions to the same point is the person who jumps into every thread with the same daily reminder that sociopathy - sorry, liberty - is good actually with all the same sort of 'gotcha' energy as asking people to prove that the sun will rise tomorrow.
    The fact that you keep trying to force something that is innately and obviously opinionated into some territory like fact is the issue here, not my recognition of the actual reality of thoughts, facts, and opinions.

    Moral relativism is the actual state of reality. Sorry hun.

  20. #180
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Moral relativism is the actual state of reality. Sorry hun.
    That has fuck all to do with y'all embracing ideological positions that are internally inconsistent like "coercion is bad because reasons" and "at will employment in a system where destitution is the result of unemployment is good, actually" though, lol. Especially when those inconsistencies just happen to always favor a particular demographic group or social class.

    I hate to agree with Theo, but the SovCit bullshit really is just a function of people who are attached at the hip to the status quo embracing a position of political arson in order to prevent any change, even if preventing that change ends up destroying the status quo anyway.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2021-03-06 at 10:03 PM.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

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