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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Nobody at Amazon was forced to use piss bottles, you are right. The drivers simply made due when there wasn't a restroom available on their route. That isn't exploiting the worker.
    Lying about it when there's been extensive reporting proving it actually happened is kinda shitty and awful and gross and terrible.

    Especially considering they knew they were lying about it at the time.

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/k7am...he-pee-bottles

    "All the guys do it," another Amazon driver in Florida who pees in coffee cups told Motherboard. "The best drivers get overtime so there’s incentive to cut corners. The most productive drivers get rewarded the most hours."
    That's Amazon, actively incentivizing people to engage in exploitative behavior like peeing in bottles so they can have the chance to get rewarded with overtime.

    You clearly don't understand how exploiting workers actually works.

  2. #322
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    You clearly don't understand how exploiting workers actually works.
    The impression I'm getting is that they're of the belief that unless it's intentionally malicious it doesn't count as exploitation when.. no, actually, incompetence that results in your workers being put into harmful situations is also exploitative.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  3. #323
    Bloodsail Admiral Karreck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Don't believe the union propaganda. And by the way, you cannot get fired for voting to unionize. That is illegal.
    I am a member of a union and they have always treated me right. Unions protect the workers, and I speak from experience on that.
    Princesses can kill knights to rescue dragons.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    The impression I'm getting is that they're of the belief that unless it's intentionally malicious it doesn't count as exploitation when.. no, actually, incompetence that results in your workers being put into harmful situations is also exploitative.
    That is intentionally malicious. Without aggressive protections to stop that kind of behavior, it's actively promoting it by pitting drivers against each other for the chance at getting coveted overtime pay.

    Like, it's both actively and intentionally malicious and exploitative on many levels.

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Lying about it when there's been extensive reporting proving it actually happened is kinda shitty and awful and gross and terrible.

    Especially considering they knew they were lying about it at the time.

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/k7am...he-pee-bottles



    That's Amazon, actively incentivizing people to engage in exploitative behavior like peeing in bottles so they can have the chance to get rewarded with overtime.

    You clearly don't understand how exploiting workers actually works.
    Correlation does not = causation. I need a citation proving Amazon forced it's employees to cut corners. Your blatant spin of driver choice is not proof of being forced to do that. It's complete BS. Typical from you.

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Correlation does not = causation. I need a citation proving Amazon forced it's employees to cut corners. Your blatant spin of driver choice is not proof of being forced to do that. It's complete BS. Typical from you.
    A company setting up a competitive structure that encourages workers to engage in unsafe/unsanitary practices, while knowing about those practices and taking no action to prevent them, is causation.

    If Amazon just gave all their drivers overtime pay and they didn't have to compete for it, nobody would be peeing in bottles. I can't believe such an obvious connection of literally the only two dots on this connect-the-dots page is still mystifying to you.

  7. #327
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Kudos to the Amazon employees in Alabama. They didn't let the pro-union people(16% of voters) bully them into taking a bad deal.

    Bravo.
    Last edited by PC2; 2021-04-09 at 07:58 PM.

  8. #328
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Correlation does not = causation. I need a citation proving Amazon forced it's employees to cut corners. Your blatant spin of driver choice is not proof of being forced to do that. It's complete BS. Typical from you.
    The idea that all of these drivers and warehouse workers just collectively decided they prefer pissing in bottles rather than it being a function a large profit driven corporation not providing adequate breaks because it's concerned with profit strains credulity to the breaking point, sweaty.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Kudos to the Amazon employees in Amazon. They didn't let the pro-union people(16% of voters) bully them into taking a bad deal.

    Bravo.
    No, they just let Amazon bully them into taking a worse deal. To say nothing of Amazon's ballot shennanigans.

    You know you can just not post rather than make blatantly ignorant statements, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by Karreck View Post
    I am a member of a union and they have always treated me right. Unions protect the workers, and I speak from experience on that.
    I am shocked that a union member would claim this. Union says jump and you say "how high" thing.

    I have a couple of members of my family who were in unions who would say the exact opposite. Absolutely shocked me they would talk bad of their union, but I guess their union agreeing to contracts without pay raises in them tends to sour a person on them.

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    I am shocked that a union member would claim this. Union says jump and you say "how high" thing.
    "Unions are bad and any union member saying they're good is lying." is a great way to keep yourself in your alternate reality. Reject the evidence of your eyes and ears and only accept what the Party tells you.

    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    I have a couple of members of my family who were in unions who would say the exact opposite. Absolutely shocked me they would talk bad of their union, but I guess their union agreeing to contracts without pay raises in them tends to sour a person on them.
    Sure Jan. I also have a couple of friends who are corporate executives and they joke about all the brutal tactics they use to exploit their workers and squash unions. I can't imagine why anyone would be in favor of corporations with the stuff I've heard, you wouldn't believe it!

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    A company setting up a competitive structure that encourages workers to engage in unsafe/unsanitary practices, while knowing about those practices and taking no action to prevent them, is causation.

    If Amazon just gave all their drivers overtime pay and they didn't have to compete for it, nobody would be peeing in bottles. I can't believe such an obvious connection of literally the only two dots on this connect-the-dots page is still mystifying to you.
    Show me where you have to pee in bottles to compete? It amazes how far you are willing to spin to falsely accuse someone. Agagn, show me proof they forced anyone to pee in a bottle. I can wait because all you have is "the workers are greedy morons with no self control" BS spin.

  12. #332
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    I have a couple of members of my family who were in unions who would say the exact opposite.
    r/thathappened

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Show me where you have to pee in bottles to compete?
    When you are tracked for productivity down to the minute, any stop or break is a disadvantage.

    Basic logic, s'il vous plait. You're claiming this shit is impossible when the entire reason we have agencies like OSHA is because this and worse used to be the industry standard.

    But hey, the Triangle Shirtwaist Company would never lock the emergency exits during work hours to cut down on cigarette breaks, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Kudos to the Amazon employees in Alabama. They didn't let the pro-union people(16% of voters) bully them into taking a bad deal.

    Bravo.
    It is a great day to see people stand up for themselves.

  14. #334
    Bloodsail Admiral Karreck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    I am shocked that a union member would claim this. Union says jump and you say "how high" thing.
    I am shocked that somebody who is so anti-union would ignore personal experiences, and documented evidence both historical and modern, that are positive. Cognitive dissonance says bad and you say "very bad" thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    I have a couple of members of my family who were in unions who would say the exact opposite. Absolutely shocked me they would talk bad of their union, but I guess their union agreeing to contracts without pay raises in them tends to sour a person on them.
    Bad unions exist. That does not discredit the good unions or the positive effect that they have. The wise and logical approach to bad unions is to reform them, not a blanket "No Unions!" attitude. Baby with the bathwater and all that.
    Princesses can kill knights to rescue dragons.

  15. #335
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    It is a great day to see people stand up for themselves.
    You mean for corporations?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  16. #336
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    You mean for corporations?
    No, themselves. Which is exactly the desired outcome - atomizing workers to the individual level so they have no bargaining power compared to their employers.

    The shills just never think they will be on the receiving end of such an arrangement because they've deluded themselves with the belief they've made the "right" choices: "I jumped through society's hoops, therefore I am not a dog in the same way as those other dogs which get the choke chain."
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Show me where you have to pee in bottles to compete?
    The article I just linked, literally.

    Again, plugging your ears, closing your eyes, and shouting, "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" doesn't make that magically disappear.

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    "Unions are bad and any union member saying they're good is lying." is a great way to keep yourself in your alternate reality. Reject the evidence of your eyes and ears and only accept what the Party tells you.



    Sure Jan. I also have a couple of friends who are corporate executives and they joke about all the brutal tactics they use to exploit their workers and squash unions. I can't imagine why anyone would be in favor of corporations with the stuff I've heard, you wouldn't believe it!
    Ironic. What you just said is "Unions are awesome and any union member saying they are bad is lying". I can apply everything you said about me back on to you. You reject the evdience of your eyes and ears and only accept what your Party tells you. Amazing how unaware of that you are.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    What you just said is "Unions are awesome and any union member saying they are bad is lying".
    Quote it, liar.

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    The article I just linked, literally.

    Again, plugging your ears, closing your eyes, and shouting, "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" doesn't make that magically disappear.
    SHow me a loine in that article where it stats Amazon forced them to pee in a bottle, not your BS spin you use to push your agenda. You are just parroting the same thing over and over again.It is BS no matter how many times you parrot it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Quote it, liar.
    YOu called my family members liars after accusing me of immediatecalling a pro-union member a liar. Own what you said for once.Liar.

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