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  1. #381
    Bloodsail Admiral Karreck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Not what I did. I described exactly what those union members were doing. They were thinking for themselves. In fact, they were only thinking for themselves and nobody else in the union. As long as they maintained pension and benefits, the union leadership could do whatever they want. They were the majority. Screw everyone else who could have used the extra money.
    But everybody got the Pension and Benefits, including your family members right? So they didn't really lose out did they? The Union bargained on their behalf, gains were made, and the majority of the membership approved because they got benefits.
    We call this Working as Intended.
    How was this union bad if it got benefits for it's members and the majority of members supported this?
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  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Don't believe the union propaganda. And by the way, you cannot get fired for voting to unionize. That is illegal.
    As long as they don't mention the reason, you can be fired.

  3. #383
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    As long as they don't mention the reason, you can be fired.
    More specifically, as long as they don't mention an illegal reason, they can fire you.

    "Ted, you're fired."
    "What? Why?"
    "Because you're named Ted."
    "But . . . what about Ted in Accounting? Is he fired?"
    "Oh, no, Accounting Ted is cool."

    Totally legit in at-will employment states.


  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Amazon claims Long violated safety rules by putting a fallen package back on a robot in an area where people aren't supposed to be...which also is in no way fenced off to prevent people from accidentally entering that area.

    Long was pushing for more safety at the facilities like...a way to put protective measures to prevent any accidents that may happen by people unintentionally ending up in the robot area.

    Man, this is top quality comedy dude.
    Well, he did. Protesting thngs doesn't give you a free pass to break the rules. BUt I forgot you are also one who thinks it is OK to loot and vandalizae other people property. What is high comedy is you condoning workers blatantly breaking safety rules Your BS spin is amazing. You also lied when you originally claimed he was fired for trying to unionize. Just more of your lies.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Karreck View Post
    But everybody got the Pension and Benefits, including your family members right? So they didn't really lose out did they? The Union bargained on their behalf, gains were made, and the majority of the membership approved because they got benefits.
    We call this Working as Intended.
    How was this union bad if it got benefits for it's members and the majority of members supported this?
    You are seriously going to argue that a union that does nothing to increases the wages of it's workers is a good one? So you are OK with slave wages as long as they get benefits. Got it. THe union is not working as intended when workers are screwed over to appease the fat cats in the majority. So I guess making it harder to pay the bills and put foods on the table also = working as intended. What fantasy are you living in that that make that a good union?

  5. #385
    Being against higher pay, better benefits, and improved work conditions is a strange position to take.

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    BUt I forgot you are also one who thinks it is OK to loot and vandalizae other people property.
    I am? Citation needed*

    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    What is high comedy is you condoning workers blatantly breaking safety rules Your BS spin is amazing.
    So...you didn't read the article then. Not remotely surprising.

  7. #387
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    Being against higher pay, better benefits, and improved work conditions is a strange position to take.
    Very normal if you're far better off than the people that would benefit from unions.

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    You are seriously going to argue that a union that does nothing to increases the wages of it's workers is a good one?
    When it's wages vs. health care and they can only get one, and the union majority prefers health care yes, that's how it works. It's not a bespoke union where everyone is their own mini-union. It's a democracy, so the majority gets to pick what they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    So you are OK with slave wages as long as they get benefits.
    This pathetic strawman doesn't even have any straw. What is this dude?

    You clearly have no idea how unions actually operate, alongside your historical illiteracy of unions, and I seriously doubt you know anyone even in a union based on how you write about them.

  9. #389
    Bloodsail Admiral Karreck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    You are seriously going to argue that a union that does nothing to increases the wages of it's workers is a good one? So you are OK with slave wages as long as they get benefits. Got it. THe union is not working as intended when workers are screwed over to appease the fat cats in the majority. So I guess making it harder to pay the bills and put foods on the table also = working as intended. What fantasy are you living in that that make that a good union?
    But if everybody is making "slave wages", then why are the majority "fat cats"?

    Here what this situation sounds like. Your "family members" wanted more than the majority wanted, or than the union could bargain for, and got pissed that their personal wants were not met. What you, and your "family members", clearly don't understand is that unions try to bargain with the following mindset.
    A. What do the majority of our members want?
    B. What do we have the best chance of getting for our members?
    C. What will benefit the majority of our members?

    Based on your own statements, the union got pensions and benefits for their members, the majority were happy with this result, and the majority did not push for more. Is a union supposed to put in the resources and effort pushing for something that the minority of their members want?
    Princesses can kill knights to rescue dragons.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    So the personal experinces of my family members don't count. Oh right, only the positive ones count.
    We're not saying those didn't happen. We're saying that your family being angry that their union opposed segregating the workplace is a good thing.
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  11. #391
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Show me where Amazon intimidated anyone. Because you clearly insult every single worker of being unable to think for themselves.
    Here, they killed the postal worker:
    Trump is back to slamming Amazon and other online retailers for killing the US Postal Service
    https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...se-usps-2020-4

    They are killing mall workers:
    Trump says Amazon 'destroying' shopping malls, hollowing out towns
    https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...stroying-malls
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  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by Karreck View Post
    But if everybody is making "slave wages", then why are the majority "fat cats"?

    Here what this situation sounds like. Your "family members" wanted more than the majority wanted, or than the union could bargain for, and got pissed that their personal wants were not met. What you, and your "family members", clearly don't understand is that unions try to bargain with the following mindset.
    A. What do the majority of our members want?
    B. What do we have the best chance of getting for our members?
    C. What will benefit the majority of our members?

    Based on your own statements, the union got pensions and benefits for their members, the majority were happy with this result, and the majority did not push for more. Is a union supposed to put in the resources and effort pushing for something that the minority of their members want?
    Yeah, it seems like his family members wanted special kickbacks from management and undermine the integrity of the union. Basically bootlickers.
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    I am the total opposite of a cuck.

  13. #393
    The trick to unionising is... it needs to be corporate-wide at minimum, industry-wide at best. Not per location. That's why these guys fail. If you do it per plant, all you do is give the company an incentive to just close that plant. That's dumb shit. You need to get ALL Amazon workers in on this, then they can actually shut the company down if demands are not met. See how the greedy fucks in upper management deal with that. There's not enough Mexicans in the US to just replace ALL Amazon workers.
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  14. #394
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    So the personal experinces of my family members don't count.
    I have 3 times as many family members that have the opposite experience. Unless you can triple your family members experience. It’s canceled out by the overwhelming number of my family members experience.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Ironic. What you just said is "Unions are awesome and any union member saying they are bad is lying". I can apply everything you said about me back on to you. You reject the evdience of your eyes and ears and only accept what your Party tells you. Amazing how unaware of that you are.
    There is not a single thing you can say that'll convince anyone that a good union is a bad thing. Not a single thing. Convince me otherwise.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    I have 3 times as many family members that have the opposite experience. Unless you can triple your family members experience. It’s canceled out by the overwhelming number of my family members experience.
    This a bit lower than you usually happen to hang around... you sure you wanna stay at his level? Looks uncomfortable to me...
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  16. #396
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    This a bit lower than you usually happen to hang around... you sure you wanna stay at his level? Looks uncomfortable to me...
    Just got a call... that number is now quintuple...

    Just leading the horse to water...
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  17. #397
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    There is not a single thing you can say that'll convince anyone that a good union is a bad thing. Not a single thing. Convince me otherwise.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This a bit lower than you usually happen to hang around... you sure you wanna stay at his level? Looks uncomfortable to me...
    What defines a good union vs a bad one?

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    The trick to unionising is... it needs to be corporate-wide at minimum, industry-wide at best. Not per location. That's why these guys fail. If you do it per plant, all you do is give the company an incentive to just close that plant. That's dumb shit. You need to get ALL Amazon workers in on this, then they can actually shut the company down if demands are not met. See how the greedy fucks in upper management deal with that. There's not enough Mexicans in the US to just replace ALL Amazon workers.
    Yet you must start somewhere... and America has weak union laws... filibuster historically was used primarily to block civil rights and secondly to block labour advancements.

  19. #399
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    What defines a good union vs a bad one?
    Malfeasance...

    Edit: Shit... you don’t know what random means... doing bad things... not good things... no no thing is bad...
    Last edited by Felya; 2021-04-10 at 12:31 AM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  20. #400
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Malfeasance...

    Edit: Shit... you don’t know what random means... doing bad things... not good things... uhm... no no thing is bad...
    So, the definition of a good union is in the eye of the beholder. That being the case, I would agree that no one would object to a good union, but few would agree on what makes one.

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