So by your argument, if someone's not happy with their pay, they could just starve a little or quit the job and be homeless. That's your logic? If I take the term extortion to it's perverse extreme, I am extorting you when I say "Hello" to you, because that puts you under a social obligation to greet me back. How about with dispense with the childish semantics that are the only thing holding up your argument and instead you talk about the issue: The gross imbalance of power between the corporation and the individual worker.
Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.
If I don't like my job, I find a better one. I am under no obligation to respond to a random person saying "hello" to me. The imbalance of power is directly related to the "importance" of the individual to the corporation.
- - - Updated - - -
The cost of sending it out would be less than the cost of maintaining a workforce of sufficient capacity to not require outsourcing.
That's a very one-sided and unfair view belonging to the middle ages and the concept of serfdom rather than a modern society. I've had this discussion on this board more than once, and it appalls me how casually people like you dismiss the needs of the weak and basically just accept that some people just need to suffer so you can live a comfortable life. I guess there is no more discussion to be had here, and all that remains for me to say is I am glad I live in Europe and not the US.
Oh, and please.. never, ever ask why people are unhappy in the US and feel the need to stir shit up by voting clowns like Trump into office. You should know the answer to that.
Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.
No, it isn't. If it were true then our company wouldn't even have a workforce to begin with. It may be true with manufacturing jobs but we are a tank car repair facility. Not only would the company be paying for the labor, they'd also be paying overhead charges for the outsourced work we sent them. Charges the other companies have to pay in order to maintain their workforce.
Life is not fair. Never has been never will be. I am not Dippy Dawg, I do not think the world owes me a living. That does not mean I am against the idea of providing people with a minimal amount of shelter and sustenance.
- - - Updated - - -
There is a point where the variable amount of work makes it more economic to have a smaller fixed workforce augmented by outsourcing than having a full time workforce sufficient to handle the maximum. Tank cars are not a steady need, especially ones intended to transport fracked petroleum products.
Or hire enough people to cover your needs and if those needs drop lay off. And the word from the top of the company is we have plenty of need.
Their repair is a steady need. They have due dates for certifications that must be met in order to roll on any track. Even if they go into storage when they come out they must be inspected and all parts must be within their service period. Everything from welds on the tank to gaskets for the valves have a due date.Tank cars are not a steady need, especially ones intended to transport fracked petroleum products.
And our company is one of the largest. Petro cars are only a fraction of what we transport.
Since we're getting off subject discussing my profession I'll end it by getting back on track. Jobs as important as the one I had deserve to be paid a fair share. We ensure materials are safely transported across this nation and others. We have to go through good lengths to ensure we are good enough to do this job. The only way we can ensure we are paid that fair share is with a union. It was because of that union that I wasn't fired for refusing to put myself in danger like my supervisor wanted me to just to get a car done faster. It is because of that union I am able to fight to get my job back because the managers made up crap to get me out the door.
Why? To ease your conscience is that part of your fake charity culture? So people can worship you as their saviour? :P
Minimal amount of shelter and sustainance... that's what was good enough for serfs and slaves. I'm glad you're that one necessary step above treating humans like animals. You do not seem to support societal advances that came in after the middle ages, though... might want to work on that, we're in the 21st century now.
Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.
Layoff can be costly.
Yes, I know tank cars require constant inspection, and that oil tank cars are just a portion of the fleet. I also know their inspection/repair locations are generally in the regions they are used in, which is why you see fewer petro tanks than, say, UTLX's facility in Anacortes, WA.
No offense, but it seems your union failed to protect you from bring falsely fired. That is disappointing as that is one of the things unions are supposed to do in theory that I have little disagreement with.
- - - Updated - - -
That would depend on one's definition of minimal.
So if 1 person out of a 1,000 Union feels that only vegan employees should receive a pay raise, should the Union push for that at the next bargaining meeting?
It is clear in your story that the majority of union members didn't view pay as an important issue. Sounds to me like your "family members" were butt hurt that they didn't get what they wanted and instead of trying to convince their fellow members that a pay increase was important, they blamed the Union as a whole for not catering to their individual demands.
Princesses can kill knights to rescue dragons.
The thrust of his argument is if the union isn't perfect and doesn't give every member exactly what they want it's a bad union.
It's a nonsense argument that belies his opposition to the very notion of unions, alongside repeat evidence that he has no understanding of the history of unions or how any of them actually function. Which is like, pretty common amongst the anti-union crowd.
My Dad felt this way too, despite getting the benefits of a "Not a Union, but really is one" (U.S. Military) and reaping the benefits of an actual Union (Teacher's Union). I remember when the Teacher's Union was threatening a walk out because the State refused to raise pay, my Dad railed against the walk out, saying it wouldn't work and he wouldn't take part. Well, the State backed down and raised pay without a walk out, and my Dad got that pay raise too. But he still complained that Unions were terrible and never did anything meaningful.
Princesses can kill knights to rescue dragons.
Oh, I used to have these arguments with my grandfather all the time...who spent much of his life in a government union and who had one son (my father) who was pretty much a lifelong union member after getting into his "career". Membership which provide health care that literally kept my family from going bankrupt many, many, many times over even as they struggled financially at times (and had to have his parents loan them money).
The arguments largely played out with him repeating Fox talking points (he loved Fox) and us going back and forth only for me to remind him of the benefits he enjoyed because of his union membership and his grudging (and repeated) admission that "Alright, but there are still bad unions." which was about as close to convincing him as one could get.
It's weird how you can directly benefit from something and see how it helps people, yet still buy the bullshit counter-arguments hook, line, and sinker, even when the bloody hook ain't even baited.
On unionisation being called artificial; all market forces could fall under that definition. Market forces are driven by demands, and if workers demand more pay the market has to respond to that just like any other market force.
"In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance
LOL using an extreme to the defend the union screwing it's members out of wages. Here is a better one that is far more realistic unlike the BS one you put out. if 499 out of a 1,000 want pay raises but 501 don't care, should the union ignore the 499 at the next bargaining meeting?
There were far more than my family members who were upset. It is beyond amazing how far you will go to kiss the unions ass and condone them keeping their members working for slave wages, yet you scream at corporations and accused them of doing it. Your level of hypocrisy is staggeringIt is clear in your story that the majority of union members didn't view pay as an important issue. Sounds to me like your "family members" were butt hurt that they didn't get what they wanted and instead of trying to convince their fellow members that a pay increase was important, they blamed the Union as a whole for not catering to their individual demands.
- - - Updated - - -
SO you are completely OK with slave wages as long as its the unions forcing it. Got it, The hypocrisy levels here are astounding.