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  1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    Hate to break it to you bud, but propaganda works. Targeting workers with anti-union propaganda has been a stable in the capitalist toolbox since the Industrial Revolution. When that doesn't work, they usually pressure workers in other ways like making an example out of the ones attempting to organize by firing them. None of this new and it's not like Amazon's tactics weren't used before. This isn't simply a case of a worker stumbling upon an anti-union twitter account and changing their mind that instant. Unions have been demonized for decades in America (Thanks CATO and Reason) and a lot of money and effort has gone into conditioning workers to not trust unions and each other.

    This is ultimately why organizing and countering propaganda is so important. Union organizers should use Amazon's Alabama warehouse as an example of how powerful capital is in the post-USSR world and plan accordingly. This isn't the first time they'll fend off unionization in America and it sure as shit won't be the last.
    In one sense, you're right that unions have to do much better with their propaganda. They have to demonstrate to workers that they'll get value for their union dues. This may be harder than they realize on job sites with double state minimum wage and day 1 health benefits (after the vote, some quoted workers pointed to that as part of their reasoning in voting against the union).

    And, to be honest, the margin of victory at over 2:1 should convince thinking people that this wasn't a case of intolerable working conditions and low pay. And if we're talking demonization, please note that Amazon has been portrayed as an evil corporation punishing its workers for quite a while now. They should have been the ones fighting an uphill battle showing workers unions would only take their money and not give them benefits they wanted, but it's clear that the union failed to make its case.
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  2. #502
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Well that's a damn fucking lie.

    So do you think being paid $20 when the average for a job is $18 when you produce $150/hr is "market rate" is a good exchange?
    If it costs the company $146/hour in total for my $150/hour production, then absolutely.

    However, I get paid over $30/hour and produce, on the balance sheet, $0.
    Last edited by Kellhound; 2021-04-14 at 04:50 AM.

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    If it costs the company $146/hour in total for my $150/hour production, then absolutely.

    However, I get paid over $30/hour and produce, on the balance sheet, $0.
    Yeah no it isn't costing the company that...

  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Yeah no it isn't costing the company that...
    You would be surprised what it costs to be in some businesses.

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Apparently, Amazon’s workers disagreed with you. And just as you’re free to encourage, with your voice, workers to unionize and use that structure, Amazon can (in your words) “encourage people from joining.”

    And fuck if it ain’t paternalistic to lose a vote and essentially blame the workers for falling to propaganda. The only fair fight you’re in favor of is one where the outcome goes with you and the messaging starts and ends with your perspective.

    I don’t even think you can cheer if they voted to unionize in good faith. Only one vote result would be deemed fair and you were ready to call them dupes of propaganda if they went the other way. That’s not an honest perspective on voting, “maybe we’ll convince them it’s in their own interest to vote my way next time,” that’s rejecting the principle of possibly losing a vote, period.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Whine all you want, but you’re saying the workers were so dumb as to be misled by bots and propaganda.

    Amazon should have the balls to congratulate their workers for not falling to pro-union propaganda. And let me know if you find interviews with union workers saying they didn’t like the wages and health benefits, until they read a social media account run by a bot, and then were convinced they were great. Like all the other lost-an-election-time-to-whine instances, the impact is always asserted, not tested.
    If you are inder6the impression tha propaganda only works on dumb people and that people never vote against their own interests by thinking of the short term then there is no possible way to have an honest discussion with you.

  6. #506
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    This might not be over quite yet.

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/u...ds-2021-04-28/

    Evidence submitted by a retail union that raised objections to Amazon.com Inc's (AMZN.O) conduct at this month's union election in Alabama "could be grounds for overturning the vote", the National Labor Relations Board said on Wednesday.

    The labor board has overturned several union elections over the years. In 2016, the board overturned an election the United Steelworks union lost by a decisive vote - a decision criticized by large U.S. business lobbies.

    The NLRB will hold a hearing on May 7 to consider objections filed by the Retail Wholesale and Department Store Union (RWDSU), which failed to secure enough votes from Amazon warehouse workers to form a union. The vote count announced on April 9 showed that workers at Amazon's Bessemer, Alabama, warehouse rejected the union by a more than 2-to-1 margin.

    "The evidence submitted by the union in support of its objections could be grounds for overturning the election if introduced at a hearing," the labor board said.

    The RWDSU submitted nearly two dozen objections to Amazon's conduct during the election, which it said prevented employees from a "free and uncoerced exercise of choice" on whether to create the company's first U.S. union.

    The RWDSU alleged that Amazon's agents unlawfully threatened employees with closure of the warehouse if they joined the union and that the company emailed a warning it would lay off 75% of the proposed bargaining unit because of the union.

    Amazon, which has denied the allegations, did not respond to requests for comment.

    For much of its history, the NLRB has used its decision-making authority to change labor policy by establishing new precedents. The board has repeatedly overturned cases decided by prior administrations. Under the Trump administration, it overturned cases detrimental to employers which had been decided during the preceding Obama presidency.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
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  7. #507
    Quite an update; Amazon violated US labor laws in Alabama union vote, labor official rules

    An NLRB officer recommended a new vote, but Amazon said it will fight the decision.

    A National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) officer has recommended that workers at an Amazon warehouse in Bessemer, Alabama hold a new election because Amazon broke US labor laws, the New York Times has reported. It's still only a preliminary ruling, but provides hope that workers may still be able to join the Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union (RWDSU).

    The RWDSU filed 23 objections in total, including one complaint that Amazon had a ballot collection box installed in an employee parking lot “without authorization” from the NLRB’s regional director. It noted that the box was placed under the view of Amazon security cameras, creating "an impression of surveillance."

    The NLRB officer sided with the union, saying Amazon violated US labor laws. "Throughout the NLRB hearing, we heard compelling evidence how Amazon tried to illegally interfere with and intimidate workers as they sought to exercise their right to form a union," said union president Stuart Appelbaum in a statement. "We support the hearing officer’s recommendation that the NLRB set aside the election results and direct a new election."

    The decision doesn't yet have any legal force until a full ruling is made by the NLRB's acting regional director, something that could take up to a month. During that time, parties will be able to file exceptions.

  8. #508
    Over 9000! Milchshake's Avatar
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    Worth remembering, like on his first day in office, Biden fired Trump's goons at the NLRB.

    I dunno who is more upset by this:
    • Pinkertons
    • noTHinG hAs chaNGED bed wetters

  9. #509
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Quite an update; Amazon violated US labor laws in Alabama union vote, labor official rules

    An NLRB officer recommended a new vote, but Amazon said it will fight the decision.

    A National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) officer has recommended that workers at an Amazon warehouse in Bessemer, Alabama hold a new election because Amazon broke US labor laws, the New York Times has reported. It's still only a preliminary ruling, but provides hope that workers may still be able to join the Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union (RWDSU).

    The RWDSU filed 23 objections in total, including one complaint that Amazon had a ballot collection box installed in an employee parking lot “without authorization” from the NLRB’s regional director. It noted that the box was placed under the view of Amazon security cameras, creating "an impression of surveillance."

    The NLRB officer sided with the union, saying Amazon violated US labor laws. "Throughout the NLRB hearing, we heard compelling evidence how Amazon tried to illegally interfere with and intimidate workers as they sought to exercise their right to form a union," said union president Stuart Appelbaum in a statement. "We support the hearing officer’s recommendation that the NLRB set aside the election results and direct a new election."

    The decision doesn't yet have any legal force until a full ruling is made by the NLRB's acting regional director, something that could take up to a month. During that time, parties will be able to file exceptions.
    Since the Bessemer vote, Amazon's situation has caught the attention of the Teamsters union, which created a special division to focus on organizing Amazon's delivery drivers.

    Yessir, get after em fellas.
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  10. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    get after em fellas.
    Ouch. No matter which side is "right" on this one, it's going to be a real problem for Amazon if their delivery trucks are choked out.

  11. #511
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Ouch. No matter which side is "right" on this one, it's going to be a real problem for Amazon if their delivery trucks are choked out.
    It's only a matter of time before the warehouses organize if the Teamsters get to the drivers. If UPS is anything to go by, the drivers should jump at the opportunity to collectively bargain. An Amazon driver strike would be fucking beautiful.
    Populists (and "national socialists") look at the supposedly secret deals that run the world "behind the scenes". Child's play. Except that childishness is sinister in adults.
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  12. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    It sounds more like you would be surprised... You think companies are 'breaking even' on each employee they hire? I understand these are all numbers pulled out of our asses, but @Themius is much closer to the truth than you are I dare say.
    That depends on the business. I was not dealing in absolutes. Where I work, salaries alone are equal to about 1/3 to 1/2 of gross. That's not including benefits or payroll taxes.

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