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  1. #1
    Mechagnome Hawkknight97's Avatar
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    Horde How would you feel if Kael'thas Return?

    How would you guys feel if Kael'thas the Sun King himself of the Blood Elves returned back from the Dead into the world of the living and rule not only the Forsaken but also the Blood Elf People as the San'layn/Venthyr Blood Mage?

    Personally I hope that we see Kael'thas return from the dead and be part of the Blood Elf and Forsaken Story since right now for the Forsaken Story so far. It's not looking really good in terms of having a lightbound undead which is Cailia and most people are already angry and disappointed with the direction of the Forsaken.

    I know having Undead Elven Leaders may be tiring but when it comes down to the best loveable ones that got treated like dirt in TBC in turning into a Raid Boss. I would love to see Kael'thas be Undead Elf Horde and I would love to see him and Jaina fight or something or having another Elf like Tyrande vs Kael or Alleria Windrunner vs the Sun King himself.

    What do you guys think? Would it be awesome or maybe not.
    High Elves and Wildhammer Dwarves are finally playable in the Alliance. XD

  2. #2
    To my understanding, none of these dead characters can come back to Azeroth. We (and our allies) can travel because Azeroth is tethered to us.

    Not saying it couldn’t be retconned somehow, but Kael’s a Venthyr now and forever.

  3. #3
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyndion View Post
    To my understanding, none of these dead characters can come back to Azeroth. We (and our allies) can travel because Azeroth is tethered to us.

    Not saying it couldn’t be retconned somehow, but Kael’s a Venthyr now and forever.
    Kael's not even a Venthyr at this point - he's a damned soul given over to their charge, and should he be rehabilitated he'll go to the Arbiter for assignment to a permanent afterlife. He could become a true Venthyr as well, but that won't be for a long, long time insofar as we reckon time.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  4. #4
    Dreadlord Ryken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyndion View Post
    Not saying it couldn’t be retconned somehow, but Kael’s a Venthyr now and forever.
    That's not how Venthyr's work. Kael'thas is still a soul, and can still be deemed unworthy and sent to the maw, or sent on to another realm of the Shadowlands if he atones. He could of course choose to become a Venthyr, but there's still thousands of years of atonement before that is a possibility.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    He could become a true Venthyr as well, but that won't be for a long, long time insofar as we reckon time.
    I was redoing some quests on an alt the other day and one venthyr who I can't recall offhand ordered a few souls to go meditate on things for a couple centuries.

    Definitely working on a different timescale there.

  6. #6
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    I was redoing some quests on an alt the other day and one venthyr who I can't recall offhand ordered a few souls to go meditate on things for a couple centuries.

    Definitely working on a different timescale there.
    I suppose as creatures of eternity they don't really reckon time in the same way we do. They're accustomed to the task of rehabilitation taking countless years for a given soul to overcome their "sins" as it were.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  7. #7
    Even if it were possible—and it isn't—no thanks. Kael is crazy.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Kael's not even a Venthyr at this point - he's a damned soul given over to their charge, and should he be rehabilitated he'll go to the Arbiter for assignment to a permanent afterlife. He could become a true Venthyr as well, but that won't be for a long, long time insofar as we reckon time.
    The same Arbiter that arbitrarily makes choices for souls that don't make the slightest lick of sense? In the Ember Court you can accuse souls for the heinous crime of being cowards, which apparently is a terrible enough sin to warrant going to Revendreth, yet Kel'Thuzad instead is sent to Maldraxxus. Apparently lacking courage is far worse than creating an evil cult bent on turning entire people into mindless undead zombies and wiping out entire civilizations.

    Anyway, OT: A few years ago I may have said yes, but considering today's Horde, he would either be turned into another Baine clone or used as the next evil Horde villain for refusing to turn into another Baine clone. Both outcomes are undesirable so he probably should stay in Revendreth, become Venthyr and stay at Renathal's court or something like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    when i learned anythin from mmo-c then it is that shit is only bad when the horde does it
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Baine is like the most unlikeable character you are supposed to like.

  9. #9
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sangris View Post
    The same Arbiter that arbitrarily makes choices for souls that don't make the slightest lick of sense? In the Ember Court you can accuse souls for the heinous crime of being cowards, which apparently is a terrible enough sin to warrant going to Revendreth, yet Kel'Thuzad instead is sent to Maldraxxus. Apparently lacking courage is far worse than creating an evil cult bent on turning entire people into mindless undead zombies and wiping out entire civilizations.
    That's the process, I didn't say it made internal sense or wouldn't be unjust. We also don't know how Kel'Thuzad wound up in Maldraxxus in the first place - he should be by all rights bound to his phylactery (which insofar as we know remains intact somewhere). The fact that he's in the Shadowlands at all is the anomaly here, not that he's in Maldraxxus specifically. Presumably the Jailer has something to do with this, or some other power that Kel'Thuzad has joined with.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  10. #10
    No reason why he couldn't, Shadowlands entities are shown to be able to freely travel between the realms now that the veil is broken. Some the Kyrians and Night Fae tell us that they want to visit Azeroth someday. Draka at some point lead a mission against a Legion world.

  11. #11
    I'm betting on Kael, Uther, Drakka, Arthas and a few others will be instrumental in "winning" for reasons at the end of SL, and their reward will be a 1up by the powers that be.

  12. #12
    Mechagnome Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    I know he is crazy but I kinda like him. It would be so much fun if he got back somehow.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkknight97 View Post
    How would you guys feel if Kael'thas the Sun King himself of the Blood Elves returned back from the Dead into the world of the living and rule not only the Forsaken but also the Blood Elf People as the San'layn/Venthyr Blood Mage?

    Personally I hope that we see Kael'thas return from the dead and be part of the Blood Elf and Forsaken Story since right now for the Forsaken Story so far. It's not looking really good in terms of having a lightbound undead which is Cailia and most people are already angry and disappointed with the direction of the Forsaken.

    I know having Undead Elven Leaders may be tiring but when it comes down to the best loveable ones that got treated like dirt in TBC in turning into a Raid Boss. I would love to see Kael'thas be Undead Elf Horde and I would love to see him and Jaina fight or something or having another Elf like Tyrande vs Kael or Alleria Windrunner vs the Sun King himself.

    What do you guys think? Would it be awesome or maybe not.
    Why do people want these guys back? I just don't get it. Do you want Garrosh and Sylvanas back too? Maybe Gul'dan next?

    They are traitors to the Horde and have all tried to kill you several times over. They allied with cosmic forces that want your destruction, in Kael's case the Legion.

    You do not put such a person back in charge, ever. Besides, they weren't even good leaders the first time around, usually more interested in their own goals then their people's so there is absolutely no reason to bring them back.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Kael's not even a Venthyr at this point - he's a damned soul given over to their charge, and should he be rehabilitated he'll go to the Arbiter for assignment to a permanent afterlife. He could become a true Venthyr as well, but that won't be for a long, long time insofar as we reckon time.
    Indeed. He would kinda have to start understanding and/or listening to the lessons of the Accuser first. He is faaar off any rehabilitation. Since I like the ties to WC3 I do want another confrontation between Kael and Kel'thuzad, maybe re-killing the Lich will give him closure and he can actually let go of his arrogance and hatred.

    If so I can see the Accuser making him a Venthyr. She has this Minerva McGonagal vibe, strict but fair and in the end always on the side of her charge.

  14. #14
    Kael being in charge of the Forsaken is entirely off-brand. Hell, his whole connection with Lordaeron before the Scourge Invasion was to send Sylvanas a mail about how reaching out to humans is bad while pondering how to pork a (teenage?) Jaina and failing. Better than Calia, but you could pick the Random Page option on wowpedia and meet that target if that's your sole barometer.

    As to the Blood Elves, unnecessary. The best incarnation of the blood elves, the TBC one, did not require Kael as anything except a symbol if that. A corrupt bureacracy of addicts lead by a regent fit that angle very well and revision of the blood elves is not based on their roster, which is pretty large unlike every other Horde race by this point, but the core weakness of the race since TBC of being high elves on the wrong faction. If you want to revise a TBC change to help the blood elves out, drop an atom bomb on the Sunwell and go from there. Bob's fine when he's not starring in teen romance or shilling for Baine and the blood elves already have far too many characters relative to the rest of the Horde.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I suppose as creatures of eternity they don't really reckon time in the same way we do. They're accustomed to the task of rehabilitation taking countless years for a given soul to overcome their "sins" as it were.
    Exactly. When you grab the souls around the Halls of Atonement for the Avowed up sometimes they'll say a few centuries more time and they'll do the ritual again.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  16. #16
    Yeah, could be interesting. It would involve some level of retconning, since so far dead souls can'T really return to life from the Shadowlands. On the other hand, the nature spirits in Ardenweald can be reborn.

    Apart from that...a properly redeemed Kael'thas returning to lead the Blood Elves and try to fix what he messed up for them? Yeah, could be interesting. I do have a soft spot for him. He didn't set out to be evil, he was pushed into it by having limited choices, and he did the things he did, at least initially, to help his people.

    As far as I know, the blood elves are still addicted to the sunwell, re-igniting it didn't cure their addiction, it just gave them back near-unlimited access to the thing they're addicted to. It could be quite an interesting storyline to have Kael'thas return and try to actually cure them. Maybe with the help of the nightborne and that magic tree that you helped them grow. If it can fix Nightwell addiction, maybe it can also fix Sunwell addiction?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyndion View Post
    To my understanding, none of these dead characters can come back to Azeroth. We (and our allies) can travel because Azeroth is tethered to us.

    Not saying it couldn’t be retconned somehow, but Kael’s a Venthyr now and forever.
    There's nothing stating people can't come back. If we can go to them why can't they come to Azeroth? The realms are connected after all (for now).

    Once you die you go to the Shadowlands, and if you die there you're gone completely apparently. So the people in the Shadowlands still have their body and soul intact and thus should be able to travel freely.

    Blizzard even hinted at such with the quote "help Warcraft legends journey back". It's on the official Shadowlands website.

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer Maljinwo's Avatar
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    I'd probably laugh at all the elves that lost their family or friends to Kael'thas betrayal back in TBC and would now being asked to follow him again as ruler
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  19. #19
    He's in the Shadowlands. He's dead. Stop.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HateTrain View Post
    I'm betting on Kael, Uther, Drakka, Arthas and a few others will be instrumental in "winning" for reasons at the end of SL, and their reward will be a 1up by the powers that be.
    The Covenants and their champions are all going against the Jailer this patch, so no?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vyndion View Post
    To my understanding, none of these dead characters can come back to Azeroth. We (and our allies) can travel because Azeroth is tethered to us.

    Not saying it couldn’t be retconned somehow, but Kael’s a Venthyr now and forever.
    No. He's still on the "Soul rehabilitation" list. Not a Venthyr.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sangris View Post
    The same Arbiter that arbitrarily makes choices for souls that don't make the slightest lick of sense? In the Ember Court you can accuse souls for the heinous crime of being cowards, which apparently is a terrible enough sin to warrant going to Revendreth, yet Kel'Thuzad instead is sent to Maldraxxus. Apparently lacking courage is far worse than creating an evil cult bent on turning entire people into mindless undead zombies and wiping out entire civilizations.

    Anyway, OT: A few years ago I may have said yes, but considering today's Horde, he would either be turned into another Baine clone or used as the next evil Horde villain for refusing to turn into another Baine clone. Both outcomes are undesirable so he probably should stay in Revendreth, become Venthyr and stay at Renathal's court or something like that.
    You'd love Sylvanas and the Jailer then...

  20. #20
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    I was redoing some quests on an alt the other day and one venthyr who I can't recall offhand ordered a few souls to go meditate on things for a couple centuries.

    Definitely working on a different timescale there.
    Inb4 200 years in the Shadowlands equate to 1 year or so in Azeroth
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    As for the "hone your skills" argument that some are tossing around, fuck that. Most people want to have fun. They're not logging onto WoW, the video game, as a self-improvement project. That's a ridiculous notion and goes right along with the idea that the game is "work." If it's not 'play' then you're doing it wrong. Sadly this is a concept that the devs seem to have lost sight of in their quest to keep anyone and everyone busy.

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